Discussing Sansa XXIII: Lady Stork and her flock

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

46 minutes ago, Risto said:

Given that fanfiction is explicitly forbidden on this site, I would politely ask you to take the "Sansa Lannister Bolton" commentaries somewhere else. Thank you very much.

 

Excuse me?...The show has called her Lady Bolton in The Red Woman episode and by the way, isn't she marry to the Lord Bolton?

[WinterCloak]

Yay for overanalysing  

I put myself in Sansa's shoes. She has been humiliated by a husband she was manipulated into marrying so she could avenge her family. I don't think she has a master plan to screw Jon over. I think her plans are to get her revenge - on Ramsay and LF. Ramsay is her short term goal, Baelish requires longer planning.

I don't think know that she has particular designs on being a queen, I don't see her character being driven by power/need to accumulate power. I think she just wants to feel safe and have some control over her happiness. 

Plus, I think Robb's 'will' will resurface, removing Sansa from succession (the whole idea was to remove Winterfell from Lannister control after they received news of Sansa and Tyrion's marriage). My initial suspicion was that Robb declared Jon his heir because Catelyn was so opposed to it. Who knows? He may have declared Arya his heir for all we know. So, Sansa may not become the Queen in the North because 'she's next'. Whatever the line of succession is in normal times will be trumped, I think, by Robb's declaration of his heir.

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Because who's to say Bran would want to be Lord of Winterfell or King in the North. Can he sire an heir?  If Bran survives it's looking like he will become a true master of whisperers and a top adviser to Jon. Just like Bloodraven was. But it was a just a guess. If Bran wants the title, Jon will not take it from him. 

Actually, think about it: Jon was dead, and now a resurrected undead.  Can he sire an heir? Under those circumstances it is reasonable to have doubts about that.

[throney]

47 minutes ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

Excuse me?...The show has called her Lady Bolton in The Red Woman episode and by the way, isn't she marry to the Lord Bolton?

Yes. You are right she is Lady Bolton there are no ifs or buts about it. I wonder that when Ramsey dies is she the heir to the Dreadfort?

[throney]

30 minutes ago, WinterCloak said:

Yay for overanalysing  

I put myself in Sansa's shoes. She has been humiliated by a husband she was manipulated into marrying so she could avenge her family. I don't think she has a master plan to screw Jon over. I think her plans are to get her revenge - on Ramsay and LF. Ramsay is her short term goal, Baelish requires longer planning.

I don't think know that she has particular designs on being a queen, I don't see her character being driven by power/need to accumulate power. I think she just wants to feel safe and have some control over her happiness. 

Plus, I think Robb's 'will' will resurface, removing Sansa from succession (the whole idea was to remove Winterfell from Lannister control after they received news of Sansa and Tyrion's marriage). My initial suspicion was that Robb declared Jon his heir because Catelyn was so opposed to it. Who knows? He may have declared Arya his heir for all we know. So, Sansa may not become the Queen in the North because 'she's next'. Whatever the line of succession is in normal times will be trumped, I think, by Robb's declaration of his heir.

I agree with you. But I don't think that had Robb's will in the show.

[Jane99]

43 minutes ago, throney said:

Yes. You are right she is Lady Bolton there are no ifs or buts about it. I wonder that when Ramsey dies is she the heir to the Dreadfort?

No - no more than Lysa Arryn was heir to the Vale. Lysa was able to act as regent because she was mother to the heir, but if Jon Arryn had died childless then the Vale would have gone to the next Arryn heir (Harry Hardyng). Similarly, if Sansa isn't pregnant, she has no claim (by proxy) to the Dreadfort. It'd go to the next Bolton in line.

Which is a shame. I can't think of any better punishment for the Boltons than to have a not-pregnant Sansa take the Dreadfort. Flowery, frilly curtains in every room, embroidered pictures of direwolves on every cushion, boxes of blue roses at every window and a kitchen that constantly smells of lemon cakes. She'd repurpose that horrible flayed man banner to a girl in a pink dress and thousands of years of Boltons would turn in their graves. It would be wonderful.

 

 

 

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

I think would be a missed oportunity if the show doesn't make Lady Bolton pregnant for drama and power purpose.

[Jane99]

I think, on the other hand, that there have been very few missed opportunities to victimise women's bodies on this show and it wouldn't hurt to have some.

There are plenty of other stories for Sansa that don't involve her endless suffering yet again.

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

Geez, this is not Scandal or Grey's Anatomy...This is a fantasy show set in the midle age.

[bb1180]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Actually, think about it: Jon was dead, and now a resurrected undead.  Can he sire an heir? Under those circumstances it is reasonable to have doubts about that.

Jon isn't an undead zombie,   though.  We've seen that he eats, drinks,  and breathes.  He appears to be fully 'alive' and functioning normally as any other human being.   

[Smoke317]

7 hours ago, WolfClaw said:

 

Jon states that

“We can't defend the North from the Walkers and the South from the Boltons. If we want to survive we need Winterfell”

 

The Boltons would attack even if Jon and Sansa would not have tried to raise an army against them. This matter is not a power play for Sansa and Jon, but it is a matter of survival. They don't do this because they are power hungry, they do this in order to survive and have a fighting chance against what is coming.

 

Vale's knights do not belong to Sansa, they do not even belong to the Littlefinger. They are under the command of Robin Arryn. Really do you think that it is about playing the game? And do you think that in a crucial moment, they could “trust” Littlefinger? His offers are not freely given and they cannot afford that, right now. Plus Vale does not belong to the North. So even if Sansa had accept his “offer”, Vale's knights would not have being under Jon's command.

 

 

Sansa knows nearly nothing about the real war to come. She's never even mentioned it. She wants Winterfell because it's home. Not because she's thinking about the WW's. Nor is Littlefinger. And if the Vale and the Northern forces combined, I think Jon would be the defacto head of the war council. Not saying Davos, Yohn, and other Northern Lords wouldn't have a say in the matters and that Jon wouldn't heed their council. He's from the North, knows the lands, and knows more than all the rest combined about the true enemy that approaches. He'll be seen as the leader because he will be declared King in the North and this battle is taking place in the North. And lastly the Vale may belong to Robin but the way things currently stand Robin belongs to Littlefinger because it's Baelish pulling his strings. 

[Smoke317]

3 hours ago, Jane99 said:

No - no more than Lysa Arryn was heir to the Vale. Lysa was able to act as regent because she was mother to the heir, but if Jon Arryn had died childless then the Vale would have gone to the next Arryn heir (Harry Hardyng). Similarly, if Sansa isn't pregnant, she has no claim (by proxy) to the Dreadfort. It'd go to the next Bolton in line.

Which is a shame. I can't think of any better punishment for the Boltons than to have a not-pregnant Sansa take the Dreadfort. Flowery, frilly curtains in every room, embroidered pictures of direwolves on every cushion, boxes of blue roses at every window and a kitchen that constantly smells of lemon cakes. She'd repurpose that horrible flayed man banner to a girl in a pink dress and thousands of years of Boltons would turn in their graves. It would be wonderful.

 

 

 

Lol. Good one. 

[Mladen]

5 hours ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

Excuse me?...The show has called her Lady Bolton in The Red Woman episode and by the way, isn't she marry to the Lord Bolton?

As I have said, please take "Lady Bolton" commentaries somewhere where this type of misogyny is welcomed. 

4 hours ago, throney said:

Yes. You are right she is Lady Bolton there are no ifs or buts about it. I wonder that when Ramsey dies is she the heir to the Dreadfort?

Actually no. Given that Roose Bolton calls her three or four times "Sansa Stark" in one minute, I think that kind of repetition would stick to people.

Once again, as OP of this thread, I politely ask of all of you to take this kind of misogyny somewhere else. I would appreciate that and I would consider anything else trolling of this thread. 

3 hours ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

Geez, this is not Scandal or Grey's Anatomy...This is a fantasy show set in the midle age.

Well, with all that desire for flare through rape pregnancy, one would actually think people see it that way. 

[Les Météores D]

15 hours ago, Drz said:

Yeah but Sansa comes before Jon, but are we now implying if Jon becomes a Stark he'd just take Winterfell infront of her?

Because the Long Night 2.0 is looming, Bran knows exactly how bad it is and choosing Sansa over Jon to lead the North/Wall against the WW would be silly. Her being Queen and Jon being warden is unnecessary complication in time of crisis/war. Sansa is no Dany or Yara/Asha. 

Edit: Actually Sansa would be a most effective hand.

[Jane99]

3 hours ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

Geez, this is not Scandal or Grey's Anatomy...This is a fantasy show set in the midle age.

Which coincidentally has more scandal than either of those two shows put together.

It also has moon tea. This Ramsay plot has been dragged out enough for shock value already. Time to put it down and move on.  

[throney]

1 hour ago, Risto said:

 

Actually no. Given that Roose Bolton calls her three or four times "Sansa Stark" in one minute, I think that kind of repetition would stick to people.

Once again, as OP of this thread, I politely ask of all of you to take this kind of misogyny somewhere else. I would appreciate that and I would consider anything else trolling of this thread. 

I apologise if I appeared mysoginistic, it wasn't my intention. It only seems to me that, not counting Cersei, most married women take their husband's name. More so in the North. That's all it was.

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, throney said:

I apologise if I appeared mysoginistic, it wasn't my intention. It only seems to me that, not counting Cersei, most married women take their husband's name. More so in the North. That's all it was.

Actually, we both know that is not true. Catelyn is half of time called Tully, Cersei is called Lannister, no one is thinking of calling Daenerys, zo Loraq (or whatever the spelling of that is), Elia is called Elia Martell, Jorah's wife is called by her maiden surname, Margaery is never considered Baratheon, Selyse is most of the time called Florent, Lysa is also being called Tully on multiple occasion, and the list continues...

As for North, Alys Karstark was married and remained Karstark, Lady Dustin is also referred by her maiden name, Ryswell, Mormont women never changed the last name.

So, yes, it stinks of misogyny... Because when of all characters you make a case for the rule that is not there, a case where the wife is raped by the man who is her family's worst enemy, that is either hatred or misogyny. Both of which have no place here...

 

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

Sansa's fans are even more dense than those of Stannis Baratheon

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

Sansa's fans are even more dense than those of Stannis Baratheon

Wow. Great contribution to the discussion.

[Ruhail]

9 hours ago, throney said:

I apologise if I appeared mysoginistic, it wasn't my intention. It only seems to me that, not counting Cersei, most married women take their husband's name. More so in the North. That's all it was.

Its not misogny. On the show Lady bolton would be considered just as legitamete a title as lady Stark in a similar way that Cat was both Lady Stark and C.Tully.