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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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2 minutes ago, The Sword of the Evening said:

Do you think he is working with the FM? Or was it just a one time thing (death of Balon, dragon egg, etc)?

Yes, my theory is that the Faceless Men and Euron are working together, his "kill all the gods thing" fits the FM's MO so that the Many-Faced God is the only one left.  The Faceless Men would be one of the few groups who's been to the ruins of Valyria and recovered things like Dragonbinder and the Valyrian steel armor. Euron might not have gone there himself, but I think he's telling the truth of where Dragonbinder came from.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

So one of the quotes

" When he laughed, his face sloughed off, and the priest saw that it was not Urri, but Euron’s smiling eye, hidden. "

Another hint that Euron is or is working with faceless men?

Just Aeron having visions and such from drinking shade of the evening IMO.

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1 minute ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Yes, my theory is that the Faceless Men and Euron are working together, his "kill all the gods thing" fits the FM's MO so that the Many-Faced God is the only one left.  The Faceless Men would be one of the few groups who's been to the ruins of Valyria and recovered things like Dragonbinder and the Valyrian steel armor. Euron might not have gone there himself, but I think he's telling the truth of where Dragonbinder came from.

 

 

I agree about the killing of the god, I just have some reservations about how they match up. Have you posted you theory anywhere?

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On 30/5/2016 at 6:55 PM, Lord Varys said:

Dany is safe.

She is the Slayer of Lies.

We'll see her making eunuchs out of Stannis, Aegon, and Euron, all.

I dont see hoe stannis can last for so long to await a confrontation with daenerys.

 

HBO destroyed all my stannis hype

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10 minutes ago, Two Thirds of a Maester said:

Has anybody raised the possibility that Euron uses the tongues he cuts to do some kind of sorcery? I Know it's kind of a weak theory, but I can't help myself but wonder why he cut out so many tongues.

Probably just to be more frightening. Since none of his companions can tell what he has been up to

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33 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Yes, my theory is that the Faceless Men and Euron are working together, his "kill all the gods thing" fits the FM's MO so that the Many-Faced God is the only one left.  The Faceless Men would be one of the few groups who's been to the ruins of Valyria and recovered things like Dragonbinder and the Valyrian steel armor. Euron might not have gone there himself, but I think he's telling the truth of where Dragonbinder came from.

 

 

The cult of the many faced god considers all those gods as one of many faces.

in the vision of the throne with the impaled gods, the stranger (one of the faces of the god of many faces) was present IIRC. So Euron killed one of the representations of said god.

i don´t see how that works with your theory.

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15 minutes ago, Two Thirds of a Maester said:

Has anybody raised the possibility that Euron uses the tongues he cuts to do some kind of sorcery? I Know it's kind of a weak theory, but I can't help myself but wonder why he cut out so many tongues.

Welcome!  Pshat, I wouldn't be surprised if he did!  But I haven't seen the theory.  Mel made her leeches seem like blood magic with only what little they could hold, Varys lost his man-parts for blood magic.  Why not tongues?! 

I think it's more like what Tyrion explained to Cersei:

Quote

"A folly," sighed Tyrion. "When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."

ACoK, Tyrion 3

So what is it that his mutes know that he doesn't want others learning?

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1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Isn't the theory he gave the faceless men a dragon egg as price for the hit on Balon. Hence his comment about tossing an dragon egg in the ocean, since Balon was tossed into the ocean.

I've read that. But what use would the Faceless Men would have for a dragon egg? As Braavosi they are, presumably, not very interested in the dragons. Aside from ways to kill them that is. And Euron's entire grand plans would actually trigger their revolt and disgust.

The Faceless Men destroyed Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer - they would have no interest in a guy trying to conquer the world with dragons. And if the prosperity of Braavos is any indication they also have no interest in destroying their surroundings and the society they live in for no good reason.

And the symbolism there is - at least a little bit far-fetched if you ask me.

55 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Yes, my theory is that the Faceless Men and Euron are working together, his "kill all the gods thing" fits the FM's MO so that the Many-Faced God is the only one left.  The Faceless Men would be one of the few groups who's been to the ruins of Valyria and recovered things like Dragonbinder and the Valyrian steel armor. Euron might not have gone there himself, but I think he's telling the truth of where Dragonbinder came from.

Sorry, but that is contradictory to anything the Kindly Man and the Waif have taught Arya so far. They see death as one face/aspect of pretty much every deity there is, so there is no need for them to enter into some sort of religious war or crusade.

The whole god imagery is in this Aeron chapter simply because Aeron is a religious nut and thus thinking in such categories, and Euron likes to mess with his mind with his whole 'I'm god' talk. That's his way to get into the head of his stupid little convert brother. But there is no reason to believe Euron has actual plans to wage a war against the gods or something as ridiculous as that. He uses the 'holy men' for his ritual and presents this whole thing as if he was stronger than the gods combined to impress his superstitious people, but he himself doesn't believe all that crap.

I think I once put forth the Faceless Man-Euron theory as I saw it:

Euron captures the ship of the Qartheen warlocks. The Qartheen warlocks have talents. Euron captures other ships and/or has other prisoners aboard the Silence, and one of them happens to be a Faceless Man. The warlocks help him reveal him/her as what he/she truly is, and then Euron breaks him/her. Either by using the spells the warlocks can work or with the help of his own magic.

If you want to speculate a little more this all could tie neatly into the whole Dany thing. If we assume that Braavos/the Faceless Men might consider the return of dragons/magic a threat then a Faceless Man could already have been on his way to Qarth back in ACoK/ASoS because the Faceless Men might have the magical means to uncover things quickly (not to mention the Braavosi traders all across the world). So he might actually have high-jacked a guy who was supposed to kill Dany originally.

I'm not sure the time line allows Euron to capture the Qartheen warlocks on their way to Pentos, to go to Braavos to hire some Faceless Men and to reach Pyke in time for his rendezvous with Balon in ASoS (before the Red Wedding!).

Not to mention that Euron also knows by the time of the Kingsmoot that Daenerys Targaryen didn't go to Pentos but rather to Meereen in Slaver's Bay. The idea that this news traveled this quickly to the Iron Islands of all places is very far-fetched.

You can try to built some elaborate case about Euron being heavily interconnected with virtually everybody outside of Westeros but I really think such cases are built on salt.

51 minutes ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

HBO destroyed all my stannis hype

Just don't watch the show. That's doable. I honestly had forgotten about the crappy Ygritte hide-and-seek plot in season 2 until I remembered this stuff thanks to @Veltigar mentioning the show above. You really can get this stuff out of your system if you try.

Edited by Lord Varys

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4 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Welcome!  Pshat, I wouldn't be surprised if he did!  But I haven't seen the theory.  Mel made her leeches seem like blood magic with only what little they could hold, Varys lost his man-parts for blood magic.  Why not tongues?! 

I think it's more like what Tyrion explained to Cersei:

So what is it that his mutes know that he doesn't want others learning?

I can see this mutes as some kind of acolytes of Euron brand new cult, if  he really think himself to be a god haha

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4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I've read that. But what use would the Faceless Men would have for a dragon egg? As Braavosi they are, presumably, not very interested in the dragons. Aside from ways to kill them that is. And Euron's entire grand plans would actually trigger their revolt and disgust.

If I were a FM and I could get a dragon egg I would take it just to keep it out of the hands of someone who might actually hatch/use it. 

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Just now, DarkSister1001 said:

If I were a FM and I could get a dragon egg I would take it just to keep it out of the hands of someone who might actually hatch/use it. 

Well, that is an odd notion - especially if you could just take it then and there. After all, if Euron paid for his brother's death he must have negotiated with the Faceless Men. And one most likely doesn't leave the House of Black and White if they don't want to allow you to go...

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5 hours ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

 

:o

i thought Euron would summon a storm. but i think i like this one more.

Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons, and krakens, and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him.

this foreshadows euron having krakens under his command.

 

Sometimes I see things that seem obvious and then someone points out to me that they may not be so obvious. Thank you. I've been looking deeper into my assumptions.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Not sure I buy that as a hint that the battle has already happened. Paxter apparently has already come round Dorne and is approaching the Arbor so the idea there would be that this could be an allusion to what might happen, not something that already has happened. News about Euron's victory over the Redwyne fleet should spread quickly and and in very clear fashion. He would want it to spread, so there should be no curious rumors hinting at any of that.

Like I told Lord-to-Fat, I have been taking a look at my assumptions and I am becoming more convinced that Redwyne's fleet never made it past the Broken Arm. Even though I've been looking and looking, the only thing I can find where someone says the Redwyne fleet rounded the Broken Arm is where Valena Tolland says they saw them going around. This is a problem since the place that would see them come around the arm would be Sunspear, which Arianne had left three days before.

Wow. They are changing the Most Precise Timeline as I am writing this. I see they have put Aeron strapped to front of the Silence on May 7th. This is very, very wrong. But it does highlight what I am saying about Redwyne and Euron meeting in battle in a different time and place than has previously been thought.

I'm going to stop this post for now and maybe go over to the most precise timeline thread.

The significance of the May 7th date? That is the day that KL finds out about the taking of the Shield Islands. The funky passage of time in this chapter is slowly being revealed!

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@bent branch

Whatever the timeline, this 'The Redwyne fleet creeps toward us. The winds have been against them rounding Dorne (...)' suggests that they are long past the Broken Arm.

It would be difficult 'to round Dorne' if you were still somewhere amidst the Stepstones or even back in the Narrow Sea or the Sea of Dorne, wouldn't it?

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21 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, that is an odd notion - especially if you could just take it then and there. After all, if Euron paid for his brother's death he must have negotiated with the Faceless Men. And one most likely doesn't leave the House of Black and White if they don't want to allow you to go...

It's the only reason I could see the FM accepting an egg, if that's what actually happened. 

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On 5/29/2016 at 2:58 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Wow. Interesting interpretation.

And for the first time it gets me thinking that the Others may approach this war more strategically than simply trying to mindlessly roll on South with their zombie hordes. If they are able to have someone like Euron start weakening humanity from the opposite end of the continent, then it shows a lot more strategic vision and intelligence than most people gave them credit for, before.

And it then begs the question, if they can use Euron for that purpose, why not other key players in the series to date? And that immediately makes one start considering potential candidates who have played a major role in weakening Westeros just before this new Winter arrives.

People like Baelish, Varys etc.

 

I've always said for the Others to be more of a interesting threat they need to be more than what we've seen and most surmise so far. 

We already have one confirmed "supporter" of the Others in Craster. I've said before I think Euron might also be a candidate, along with Roose (eyes like dirty chips of ice, destabilised the North ie first barrier after the wall) and possibly Qyburn (blood magic, who knows who controls UnGregor?)

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10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

@bent branch

Whatever the timeline, this 'The Redwyne fleet creeps toward us. The winds have been against them rounding Dorne (...)' suggests that they are long past the Broken Arm.

It would be difficult 'to round Dorne' if you were still somewhere amidst the Stepstones or even back in the Narrow Sea or the Sea of Dorne, wouldn't it?

This chapter is very deceiving about what is going on and how much time is passing. For instance, we have no way of knowing how long Aeron's trips last. Aeron doesn't know where they are. And finally the chapter itself is rough. It doesn't even have consistency with itself.

Anyhow, the timeline has Redwyne's fleet entering into the Stepstones no later than June 5th. They also couldn't have entered much earlier or Arianne would have seen them come around the other side before she left Sunspear. So, we can assume that Redwyne's fleet was somewhere around the Broken Arm around June 5th. This date would already make their trip from Dragonstone an exceptionally long one. This would explain the headwinds statement. The discrepancy between the length of Sam's trip and the time it has taken the Redwyne fleet has been noticed for some time. This discrepancy would make sense if the Redwyne fleet has been destroyed at some point in between. So far the only indication we've seen of a major sea battle is from Arianne 1. I have a feeling none of this will be at all confusing when we can read the whole book.

Let's move on to another aspect for a moment. It appears Aeron is moved from a castle to a ship twice during the chapter. This doesn't really make sense because we don't see where Aeron is moved into the second castle. This maybe an artifact of the note taking or it maybe because GRRM is in the midst of reworking this chapter, but statements like the one you are relying on are not trustworthy in this situation.

Another aspect to consider, how in the hell does Euron have any intelligence on the Hightowers or Redwyne fleet at all? They can't depend on raven's. Getting a glass candle from the wizards is not an unreasonable assumption.

ETA: I have read a better version of the notes (seems like it may have been a transcribed recording). It is obvious that there was only one prison on a small island off of the Arbor during the entirety of the chapter and Aeron was only remembering what had happened since the kingsmoot. And yes, it does seem that they waited not only for Redwyne's fleet to round the Broken Arm, but also for Hightower to send out his fleet so that they could engage both fleets at once. And yes, this does seem to happen south of Dorne. I'll admit I was wrong about this. Perhaps the IB that were in that region had ravens from that small island and were sending reports back.

Also, I got the impression that the holy people were somehow being used to protect the boats from whatever spell they were planning to make. Maybe it is reasonable to think Aeron survives this encounter.

Edited by bent branch

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lol How does GRRM do it? How does the man still manage to surprise us when millions of people are throwing out speculations about where the plot is going.

I don't recall reading one speculation of the HOTU passage where someone said "Aeron's the one on the prow of the ship". People correctly guessed that the passage references Euron becoming a husband to Dany, but not that Aeron is in the symbol of that. Well done, GRRM.

Also I'm glad to see that he has learned from one of his admitted regrets of not having a POV with Rob during his campaign. Please keep Aeron with Euron for as long as it takes. I want to see the Redwyne battle and everywhere else he's up to. Cut back on boring Essos POVs like Dany's and give me more of Euron.

The eyepatch and having the brass to hire a faceless man to kill a King with a dragon egg was already badass enough. But the the tales of being the first person to set foot on Valyria in centuries, dragonbinder, and having warlocks at his disposal set him over the top in coolness. Now the guy walks around in a suit of valyrian steel saying he's a god. Oh hell yes, more Euron please.

Edited by Ser Biscuit

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16 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

It seems clear that Euron is not feeding Aeron precious Shade of the Evening just for shits and giggles. Euron doesn't care about the visions that Aeron is experiencing. No, he is doing this with a purpose.

The reference to holy man with holy blood, together with the warlocks, Septons and Red Priest in the dungeons, makes it clear that Euron is using Shade of the Evening to awaken the magical properties in Aeron's blood. As he says, he has need of that blood.

And that is of course to serve as the blood sacrifice to power the spell he is going to use to sink the Redwyne fleet. I'm sure Pyat Pree and the septons are being tied to the prows of some of his other ships.

And as for Falia Flowers - she carries Euron's son or daughter in her belly. So by sacrificing her he is adding some King's Blood to the spell.

Some powerful magical stuff about to go down.

 

These were my thoughts exactly, as soon as Euron said he needed Aeron's blood, I knew Aeron didn't have much time left. With all that blood sacrifice coming, the Redwynes are doomed.

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