blckp Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Euron can talk all shit he can but at end who can control Dany? she holds real power both militarily and political , there is no challenger in her might except ice zombies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, blckp said: Euron can talk all shit he can but at end who can control Dany? she holds real power both militarily and political , there is no challenger in her might except ice zombies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmug Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said: Has the Clinton Foundation given any money to HBO? Valar Morgulis "All Men Must Die" Hillary 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmug Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 The Children of the Forest looked like they were a "female" driven society. Up until Men came and wrecked the world. Perhaps Leaf created the original WW to counter the world of Men. She says it to Bran herself, they created the WW to protect themselves from "you"' then she says "Men". No mention of women. #thinkaboutit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastManStanding Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 4 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said: The fact that Jon actually has leadership and military experience and knowledge of the true threat the North has now got to face, which are the Others? I am not sure what Sansa did in this episode which merits her being "Queen in the North". Not that Jon is perfect, but he is a much better candidate. If there's anything Dany's, Robb's, Stannis',Jon (pre S6),Robert Baratheon, Cersei's story etc. has taught us, it is that ruling is way harder than winning a throne. But you said that they won't rally to Sansa, with no real reason. She has the name and she does have the smarts. Jon has led an army, yes, and he knows about the white walkers, but that isn't a reason the North would shun Sansa, especially when no one really believes in the WW to begin with. The show has shown us the importance of a house name. Being a military man also doesn't make you an effective political leader. He has been a leader, but could really only muster wildlings, whilst she bought the Vale You said that the North would choose Jon Snow over Sansa Stark, but there is no evidence to suggest they would do so without a push. He will probably be Warden/King of the North or something, but with Sansa's backing. Otherwise people will rally to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 10 hours ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said: Northmen are probably more likely to follow Jon than Sansa. Sansa comes before Jon in succession. Has a stronger claim. She saved the battle for Winterfell with her alliances. And Jon almost ruined it with his "brilliant" strategies, like running straight at charging enemy, for starters. Why exactly would literally anyone support him over Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blckp Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 16 hours ago, Kiwi said: Sansa comes before Jon in succession. Has a stronger claim. She saved the battle for Winterfell with her alliances. And Jon almost ruined it with his "brilliant" strategies, like running straight at charging enemy, for starters. Why exactly would literally anyone support him over Sansa? because plot armor, he has more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 minute ago, blckp said: because plot armor, he has more Arrows and blades sure miss him, but succession laws don't. At least we've never seen him dodge one. Even if he somehow gets the proof of being Lyanna's son, he's still Lyanna's bastard son. Also Rheagar's bastard son. Making his claim to throne a stronger claim than his claim to North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blckp Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 16 hours ago, Kiwi said: Arrows and blades sure miss him, but succession laws don't. At least we've never seen him dodge one. Even if he somehow gets the proof of being Lyanna's son, he's still Lyanna's bastard son. Also Rheagar's bastard son. Making his claim to throne a stronger claim than his claim to North. just wait and see, his plot armor is almighty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 5 hours ago, House Cambodia said:Even teaming up with Ellaria in Dorne would make good strategic sense as her ambitions are limited to Dorne. I agree with the orher part of your post.. but this? Wtf dude? Doran clearly stated, Oberyn died in a trial by combat he himself fought. So he was doing the right thing. Had the crown not been busy with sparrows,they would have marched down and burnt Dorne down. Elaria was too stupid to understand. Then she goes on to kill the last of the Martels who are also kin, to run a vengence filled barbaric rule. It didnt even start because she wants Dorne. It was all about "For Oberyn". Now she would want to avenge more by cutting Cercei and all the lnisters "one finger at a time" And you fucking tell me, an alliance with family killing bastards is logical? Wtf dude? Cmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Cambodia Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 ^ You talkin' to me??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 7 hours ago, LastManStanding said: But you said that they won't rally to Sansa, with no real reason. She has the name and she does have the smarts. Jon has led an army, yes, and he knows about the white walkers, but that isn't a reason the North would shun Sansa, especially when no one really believes in the WW to begin with. The show has shown us the importance of a house name. Being a military man also doesn't make you an effective political leader. He has been a leader, but could really only muster wildlings, whilst she bought the Vale You said that the North would choose Jon Snow over Sansa Stark, but there is no evidence to suggest they would do so without a push. He will probably be Warden/King of the North or something, but with Sansa's backing. Otherwise people will rally to her. Sansa has the name, yes. But in the show, the northeners have been portrayed as not caring about the Stark name at all. They didn't care that their liege lord, Rickon Stark was captured by the Boltons. The Stark name was not sufficient to rally many Northern houses to their side, was it? Why should it suddenly matter now? In any case, I am sure Sansa will provide Jon her backing. She may even legitimise him with the Stark name (I hope so). My point still stands that Jon is better suited currently to be a leader, all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Perkis Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said: Sansa has the name, yes. But in the show, the northeners have been portrayed as not caring about the Stark name at all. They didn't care that their liege lord, Rickon Stark was captured by the Boltons. The Stark name was not sufficient to rally many Northern houses to their side, was it? Why should it suddenly matter now? In any case, I am sure Sansa will provide Jon her backing. She may even legitimise him with the Stark name (I hope so). My point still stands that Jon is better suited currently to be a leader, all things considered. Agreed. Sansa is tainted by her past marriages and she may have the Stark name by birth but she has been in KL for most of the show, so there are doubts. Sansa gains more political points from putting Jon in power over herself (strong ally with a united North and creates a positive view of the girl in other people's eyes possibly). This is in turn allows her to turn her ambitions wherever she wants to go (Riverlands or the Erryie). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 19 hours ago, Tianzi said: Could change the law and let them inherit, have a say in marriages and so on? The women can already inherite. Only the Targ women cannot inherite. 19 hours ago, Tianzi said: In the show? I do not know. In the show he is 14 and still sick. Using expessions like "weak idiots" is kind of ableism. Even if he somehow gets the proof of being Lyanna's son, he's still Lyanna's bastard son. Also Rheagar's bastard son. Making his claim to throne a stronger claim than his claim to North. Not necessarily. He could be their trueborn son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VVSINGOFTHECROSS Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 19 hours ago, LastManStanding said: Any basis for that statement? We've been told that Northern folk will respect the Stark name, and Sansa. Nothing really suggests they would refuse o unite under Sansa. Plus, they are together. Mainly the fact that in the six thousand years the Starks have ruled the north, they've never had a Queen Regnant. And the fact that Jon was named Robb's heir, coupled with the fact that Sansa was married to a Lannister and a Bolton, and the fact that northmen are incredibly xenophobic, hence why the Valemen being there, is going to be viewed with huge suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy is not No One Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 i would imagine the northern lords will follow/support Jon. It's easy to forget bc now a days we don't have a draft and we have weapons where we can just push a button and ppl die and our commanders are always safely at home away from the battle. but these northern folk live in an incredibly violent world where everything happens right in front of you. Lords fight in battles and they fight on or close to the front line. They don't follow Jon snow (or men in general) bc boys rule and girls drool. They follow men bc at the end of the day, they derive their protection from warriors who swing swords and fight bloody battles. The northern lords will follow Jon bc 1) he has the guts to fight the boltons even when out numbered and 2) apparently the whole north knows he is a good fighter and he proved he can handle himself in battle (plus the whole coming back to life thing). In the north, people follow strength - and they recognize strength as someone who can march into battle and swing a sword. They don't recognize strength as someone sitting way back and watching the fight from afar. Not saying that this is right - just pointing out that is how the north's society sees things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kytheros Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Even if Jon is the trueborn son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, he is still the last in the Stark succession, behind Sansa and Arya. The only way he gets ahead of them legally is through Robb's actions, legitimizing him and explicitly naming Jon his heir - and it has to be both, if Jon is only legitimized, his position in the succession is murky. And Legitimized as a son of Ned Stark - if Jon is legitimized as child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, he's still last in the Stark succession behind Sansa and Arya. In the North, the order of succession (per the books) goes trueborn son > trueborn daughter > trueborn brother > trueborn brother's son > trueborn brother's daughter > trueborn sister > trueborn sister's son > trueborn sister's daughter. Legitimized bastard males may or may not go before or after their trueborn female siblings - precedent is unclear on that, while legitimized bastard females clearly go after their trueborn female siblings. It is implied that similar succession rules apply everywhere else in the Seven Kingdoms except for Dorne and the Iron Throne. Dornish succession ignores gender. The Iron Throne has a precedent where trueborn males of collateral lines are preferred over trueborn females of direct descent. Jon has already rejected being legitimized and named the Lord Stark of Winterfell. Stannis offered. And that was before Jon went through the trauma of being murdered and resurrected. He's not going to try to steal Winterfell from Sansa or Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 On 21.06.2016. at 9:56 AM, LastManStanding said: But you said that they won't rally to Sansa, with no real reason. She has the name and she does have the smarts. Jon has led an army, yes, and he knows about the white walkers, but that isn't a reason the North would shun Sansa, especially when no one really believes in the WW to begin with. The show has shown us the importance of a house name. Being a military man also doesn't make you an effective political leader. He has been a leader, but could really only muster wildlings, whilst she bought the Vale You said that the North would choose Jon Snow over Sansa Stark, but there is no evidence to suggest they would do so without a push. He will probably be Warden/King of the North or something, but with Sansa's backing. Otherwise people will rally to her. Jon being dumb and careless served purpose of plot, now I think they will introduce back books Jon, smart one, with great diplomatic and stewardship abilities. They don't care much about character development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumy Stark Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 On 6/20/2016 at 5:23 PM, Jon Snow Bengal said: Ahh, this old chestnut. Most men striking alliances with other men are heavily influenced by the fact that, shock horror, they are both male. Boring. This though. On 6/21/2016 at 4:37 AM, Kiwi said: Arrows and blades sure miss him, but succession laws don't. At least we've never seen him dodge one. LOLZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Bengal Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Dany - overall Queen of Westeros Yara- Queen of the Iron Islands Ellaria - Queen of Dorne Sansa - Queen in the North? Margaery? War of the Five Queens? (assuming Cersei dies...) No conspiracy, it's just what happens when all the men kill each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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