We need to trust each other now.

[Future Null Infinity]

14 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

Wild theories here trying to justify her behavior but if she was truly playing the game she would not be so blatantly false and duplicious. She has learned nothing. Oh and the vale and its forces are not hers and are going back.

she learned everything, she made her war with Jon and they won over Ramsay on the boltons, and no one said the Knights of the vale are hers, anyone said that didn't understand anything from the show

14 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

Finally the creep did that awfull thing to the fool in the chair, behaving like a lunatic instead of a true stark. That is way he said that like others made him, he made her like him too, forever. Not some insane idea that she is pregnant. That is also why she replied that everything about him would disappear. However she said it herself, she can still feel it in her hones and her soul and her actions make her deranged, unstable.

Sansa and Jon won because she didn't think about it the stark's way (the same way that made Ned, Robb and Cat get killed) :

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11976462/game-of-thrones-sansa-stark-littlefinger-ramsay-jon

[Dragonslack]

Bah what a crackpot onesided theory not sustained by the comments from the producers and actors after the show. Like others have said that would only make a tiny bit of sense if she was worse than littlefinger, sacrificing her two brothers and loyal army for a cheap win from the rear. But even then there is no way to know or guarantee an arrival at the exact time. A tiny bit longer and they would be all dead and boltons back to winterfell where knights are useless and would not pursue a lost cause. A tiny bit sooner and ramsey would not have commited his full army making it easy to retreat inside the walls in force and those spears are very good agains cavalry. Waiting nearby never would happen, the boltons would notice such a huge army galloping and waiting  for the right time and the general would not go for it.

[Future Null Infinity]

5 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

Bah what a crackpot onesided theory not sustained by the comments from the producers and actors after the show. Like others have said that would only make a tiny bit of sense if she was worse than littlefinger, sacrificing her two brothers and loyal army for a cheap win from the rear. But even then there is no way to know or guarantee an arrival at the exact time. A tiny bit longer and they would be all dead and boltons back to winterfell where knights are useless and would not pursue a lost cause. A tiny bit sooner and ramsey would not have commited his full army making it easy to retreat inside the walls in force and those spears are very good agains cavalry. Waiting nearby never would happen, the boltons would notice such a huge army galloping and waiting  for the right time and the general would not go for it.

but they won, Jon and Sansa won the war, unless you want all starks dead by the boltons

[Dragonslack]

The point of the whole battle as they said was to show gore and the role of LUCK. Ripping off not one but many battles of different times was far fetched and the wall of bodies was just ridiculous.

[princess_snow]

On ‎23‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 1:08 AM, SevasTra82 said:

Pretty much.  Davos to Jon is what Tyrion is to Dany.  

Davos will remain next to Jon as his Hand/Counselor.  

I hope so.

[Cron]

On 6/21/2016 at 9:18 PM, Ser_Dingleberry said:

Just re-watched the last episode and the preview and Jons statement to Sansa "we need to trust each other now, we have so many enemies," then the sad look on Sansa and kiss on the forehead. I'm assuming this is the conversation everyone is wanting to see between Sansa and Jon. Sansa explains why she lied and all that. Jon forgives and apologizes for not listening. I mean this won't just make me forget or ignore all the problems between their stories this season but it'll help. Maybe I'm just hopeful that in the finale it'll all make sense but who knows. 

I'll be stunned if Sansa's actions are ever explained in a way that makes enough sense to satisfy me.

In my opinion, she has shown she is simply unfit to lead, and learning that fact cost hundreds (if not thousands) of people their lives, quite likely including her own brother, Rickon, in my strong opinion.

[Smoke317]

22 hours ago, Fiddlefinger said:

What, Sophie didn't follow you on Twitter or something? #hatersgonnahate

Sophie is very sexy but I could care less about being followed, I'm not really into Twitter... Her acting on the other hand is very, very bland. So it's not hate. It's just the truth.  But I still think she's an amazing young woman. I think she'll be great in the nex Xmen movies. Her portrayal of Sansa Stark has kinda sucked. Partly due to her limited acting range and partly due to the piss poor writing they've given to Sophie. Her scene with Jon to start this season where they were reminiscing was so great. Sophie seemed relaxed. Just being herself. No whining and pouting. Not the naive dumb child she's played for years. Then the writers screwed up all of that goodwill with this Sansa lying to Jon nonsense. They should have taken that first scene and ran with it. Made them grow closer and more unified over the season...  Would have been much better. But I'm hearing rumors Sansa may turn dark.  Guess we'll find out tonight. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Sophie is very sexy but I could care less about being followed, I'm not really into Twitter... Her acting on the other hand is very, very bland. So it's not hate. It's just the truth.  But I still think she's an amazing young woman. I think she'll be great in the nex Xmen movies. Her portrayal of Sansa Stark has kinda sucked. Partly due to her limited acting range and partly due to the piss poor writing they've given to Sophie. Her scene with Jon to start this season where they were reminiscing was so great. Sophie seemed relaxed. Just being herself. No whining and pouting. Not the naive dumb child she's played for years. Then the writers screwed up all of that goodwill with this Sansa lying to Jon nonsense. They should have taken that first scene and ran with it. Made them grow closer and more unified over the season...  Would have been much better. But I'm hearing rumors Sansa may turn dark.  Guess we'll find out tonight. 

She will turn dark. She will trust LF and discard Jon because he's a bastard. She's her image of her mother.

i would love to see how she will react when she knows Jon isn't her bastard brother, will she hate him less or even more? 

[Guest]

For plot and story would be more intereseting if Sansa turn to LF instead of Jon. If that be the case she will become the protagonist replacing Jon in the role. Maybe after all this will happen in the light of all-feminine rising in the series (Dany, Yara, Sand Snakes), but highly doubtfull if it is to believe the rumors about Ghost, Jon and LF in Winterfell's godswood.

To me, first all had pointed out to Sansa's ambition to rule and thus removing Jon from her way, which would include turning to LF for a moment, then outplaying him using his weakness toward her mother and later herself. But, as I said, more probably Sansa and Jon are going to outplay LF right tonight which leads to LF's death.

[Lord Friendzone]

8 minutes ago, wolfinho said:

For plot and story would be more intereseting if Sansa turn to LF instead of Jon. If that be the case she will become the protagonist replacing Jon in the role. Maybe after all this will happen in the light of all-feminine rising in the series (Dany, Yara, Sand Snakes), but highly doubtfull if it is to believe the rumors about Ghost, Jon and LF in Winterfell's godswood.

To me, first all had pointed out to Sansa's ambition to rule and thus removing Jon from her way, which would include turning to LF for a moment, then outplaying him using his weakness toward her mother and later herself. But, as I said, more probably Sansa and Jon are going to outplay LF right tonight which leads to LF's death.

Jon being KitN and Sansa going against him makes it interesting but who knwos with White Walkers invasion. Jon is more important than Sansa and always was. He is up there with Daeny and Tyrion. Northerners might view Jon as the hero and Sansa as not so much. She is trueborn but these people value bravery, loyalty, honor more than anything.

[Morgain]

45 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Jon being KitN and Sansa going against him makes it interesting but who knwos with White Walkers invasion. Jon is more important than Sansa and always was. He is up there with Daeny and Tyrion. Northerners might view Jon as the hero and Sansa as not so much. She is trueborn but these people value bravery, loyalty, honor more than anything.

Bravery, loyalty, honour yes but that's just warrior or knight/ lady level.

Jon is supposed to be a leader. At that level there needs to be wisdom, cunning and most of all cool head strategy. At which Jon is NOT good. He crashes in to impulse action for passionate reasons, which a good leader cannot do.

Compare Tywin, or Tyrion (at his best before he went downhill with boozing in Meereen). Sansa was better than Jon. It was she who brought in LF with the Vale and THAT is what won the battle.

Still I have no trust in D&D intelligence so it's a lottery what they will do.

[boodofmyblood]

1 hour ago, Morgain said:

Bravery, loyalty, honour yes but that's just warrior or knight/ lady level.

Jon is supposed to be a leader. At that level there needs to be wisdom, cunning and most of all cool head strategy. At which Jon is NOT good. He crashes in to impulse action for passionate reasons, which a good leader cannot do.

Compare Tywin, or Tyrion (at his best before he went downhill with boozing in Meereen). Sansa was better than Jon. It was she who brought in LF with the Vale and THAT is what won the battle.

Still I have no trust in D&D intelligence so it's a lottery what they will do.

Without Jon and his wildling forces there would have been no battle at all to take back WF to begin with. He only joined for his family. A cool head is something you can learn over time. And advisors can help with that as well (notably Davos has been a great advisor to Jon and Sansa has criticized Jon keeping him around a couple of times when she knows nothing about him). 

I like Sansa but she made a Westeros phone call to LF, that's it. She didn't risk her life in the battle with the forces.  She wasn't a leader in this case. It didn't take wisdom, cunning, or a cool head. It took a connection to LF which she had and Jon didn't through no fault of his own. 

Edit: I also wonder...if Sansa had been out on the battlefield, would she have been able to sit there while Rickon ran across the field, getting shot at by arrows? Would she have been able to keep her cool as he died right in front of her? It's easy to say it in theory. In practice is totally different. Jon had to experience it for himself. He made a mistake charging in after Rickon's death but he can learn from it. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Jon being KitN and Sansa going against him makes it interesting but who knwos with White Walkers invasion. Jon is more important than Sansa and always was. He is up there with Daeny and Tyrion. Northerners might view Jon as the hero and Sansa as not so much. She is trueborn but these people value bravery, loyalty, honor more than anything.

Who cares for KiTN if white walkers are at the door? :-) All those values are true, but all people doesn't share the same values. And if the leader has a particular qualities it doesn't mean all people who follow him has the same qualities. As you saw in TBoB, Northerner is butchering another Northerner because of that, like they had butchered Southerners as well and vice versa. 

[gotviewer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfnl9owFc84

Rewatched scene from the crypt between LF and Sansa.  LF says even a dangerous man can be outmaneuvered.  Sansa outmaneuvered Ramsey.  

It was not about revenge but her survival.  Ramsey would have her hunted, returned to him and tortured.  

Sansa should trust Jon but recognize that he may have different goals than she does.  If Ramsey had said at the parley.  I will give you back Rickon and all of you can go on your merry way.  Who would trust Ramsey?  Would Jon have done the deal?  Would Sansa?  Then Ramsey hunts them with 20 good men and ...

[Ice Spider]

Jon vs Sansa for the rule of Winterfell is a moot point upon Brann's return. Unless you think Bran's death is imminent, which I highly doubt.

[Future Null Infinity]

53 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

Jon vs Sansa for the rule of Winterfell is a moot point upon Brann's return. Unless you think Bran's death is imminent, which I highly doubt.

Kingsmoot for Jon and Sansa  

I really don't think that who will rule is something important in the story, the WW are coming and soon the north and Winterfell will turn to ashes 

[Joan Jett]

Seems like Sansa v Jon may be on the way. 

Sophie says Sansa is "agitated" at Jon. Liam says Sansa might have a problem with Jon ruling Winterfell. 

[Pandean]

6 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Seems like Sansa v Jon may be on the way. 

Sophie says Sansa is "agitated" at Jon. Liam says Sansa might have a problem with Jon ruling Winterfell. 

I wouldn't say that this makes for a Sansa v Jon. At least, not in a negative I'm-gonna-turn-evil-and-fight-my-sibling-etc. kind of way.

I figured from watching it, that both Sansa and Jon have different opinions about ruling that may clash. When I hear Sophie say Sansa is a bit agitated, I think it's less to do with Jon becoming KitN and more to do with not really being listened to, similar to what Kit said.

As for Liam, I still think from what he says he doesn't mean that there's gonna be some showdown between the two or one is going to become evil or...whatever.

I think between the two of them, the War coming, Daenerys, etc. there will definitely be some tension and 'not pretty' moments.

I think we may get Jon v Sansa in the way we kind of did in Ep 9 where Sansa was angry at not being listened to and they argued, but I think that this episode does show the siblings (or, well, cousins) have bonded and are going to stick up for each other when shit gets thick.

 

Just my interpretation. I think that would actually be more intriguing than one of them going evil. Just because it's a whole lot more nuanced.

[lancerman]

Sansa vs Jon isn't happening.

[Future Null Infinity]

16 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Seems like Sansa v Jon may be on the way. 

No, it's no happening, I didn't see it in the show, she said to Jon she knows LF very well