[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

All these things might be interesting issues to explore. But, I do not trust D & D to handle them well, and Sansa will probably come off looking like she is the worst person in the world. There is already enough Sansa hate out there and D & D are not helping matters with their hamfisted attempts to do meldodrama.

All of this.

[Apathetic Onlooker]

I'm curious how the Northern houses are going to suddenly have the courage to send men to fight for their king against goddamn ice zombies when they all collectively refused this same king and acted like sissies against a far less threatening House Bolton that had no southern support and no hostages to keep them from revolting.

Yeah... sounds like a winning army.

[LadyDoom]

Sansa saying "Only a fool would trust LF" I wonder if it's purposely done as an insult to Ned. 

 I seriously can't believe nor forgive Sansa's storyline, there's no excuse. And I have let many things slide under the excuse they can't show all, a visual media will never be able to have same depth as a book, the book deals with too many characters and stories for them to include all, blah blah. But Sansa's story was the last drop for me. 

Why did she agree to marry Ramsay without a plan and knowing nothing about him? why didn't she demand more information to LF when he proposed the idea? 

When Sansa was first shown to be taken to Winterfell I actually got excited, I understood why they wanted to merge those storylines and I thought they were going to go for something new entirely, a more Margaery/Joff kind of story line and while it wasn't new I was intrigued. If done right it would have shown Sansa as the "empowered" sneaky girl they tried to tell us she was, and still find a way to keep Ramsay's atrocities. But Sansa didn't do anything sneaky didn't show in any scene she even knew how to play the game any better than before, in fact she was more clever about it when she just played the small harmless girl she was back in KL.

In the scenes in Winterfell she was brooding and rude and OBVIOUSLY angry at the Boltons, and she not fearing them didn't come out as badass but as just plain stupid, she walked to the enemy's house willingly and showed no awareness of the danger. she had no plan, no nothing so what was she expecting to get out of all of that? aside to sleep and dine with her family's enemies? what were her character's motivations? 

My anger at her suffering all Jeyne did wasn't because she was a girl and was being abused, was because it made no sense, Jeyne had no say in anything that happened to her, Sansa went there willingly. And when it became clear they weren't going for anything new and Sansa was there to be a victim again and help redeem Theon, and to shock audiences and whatever, it was too much. 

And now this season, she understands that LF used her for his own greed, with no real plan to have her back or share anything. She reunites with Jon, someone she clearly sees has no such ill intentions and she somehow mistrusts him for no reason at all. 

She changes personality according to plot demand, she pushes Jon to move fast, to attack even against all odds, that Rickon doesn't have much time that they have to take back Winterfell. Jon who is another train wreck himself, does it all for her sake and hers alone, and she still bitches for no reason. If she had counsel to give she was free to give it, and she suddenly doesn't think Rickon can be rescued and doesn't think they should rush into anything when she was the one who was urging him to move fast. 

She keeps the Vale army a secret and there's no explanation given for that. She claims she doesn't trust LF and she tries to outplay him by supporting Jon, but now we are told that there's anger and jealousy. So that last look from Sansa to LF was more of regret and maybe realization LF could help her after all? really? 

I'm done, they have not committed to Sansa being anything, either make her a villain going for her own claim, either playing LF or being his pawn, or make her truly trust Jon and support him, either remaining naive of using her LF lessons to help and support her House in ways all the other Starks are too naive  to, but to have her as this indefinitely confused girl and trying to present her as strong, empowered at the same time is plain ridiculous. She has had no development at all, it's all a big mess of a characterization. And she is only the tip of the iceberg. 

 

 

 

[Tijgy]

6 hours ago, The Golden Wolf said:

They are these awesome pets of the Stark children who get neglected and killed off for reasons. 

Personally i believe that the killing of four of the Direwolves transferred power to Dany allowing her with each death to control her dragons. The death of Summer allowed her to not only control Drogon but the other two as well. 

Dany, the parasite. I always knew she was evil. 

6 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

Exactly - especially as all these Northerners are suddenly in Winterfell.

This.  Frey Pies/Rat Cook because breaking guest right is an abomination - it's one of GRRM's hidden gems for those paying attention.  In the show, it's just in-your-face nonsense for Arya who can now take down a couple of grown men and chop them up (does she have the build to work in an abbatoir?) to bake them in a pie and has a range of faces from the Hall.  Monumental stupidity.

 I think I might have said last year the only way I would ever like the North again is when they use Manderly, Glover, a Mormont Lady, ... I do not know why I ever said because they were able to make this even worse  And they just completely messed Northern Mythology up or Arya does not know the stories as well as Bran. Arya, why did you not listen to Old Nan? 

4 hours ago, Chebyshov said:

It strikes me that what's most interest about the Larry-look-of-disgust at the end was that Sheryl basically did everything he had been talking about all season. 

Something that is weird. Allow me a little honey potting: he looked a little disgusted when Walder said the Lannisters and the Freys are the same. Maybe, maybe this might changed his world view a little? Probably just a retcon. 

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

So... Even though my watch ended after episode 5 I decided to watch this, but I fell asleep and never got past the KL stuff. That was what, almost 20 mins of bs? What was that music? 

What happened with Bran & co? Also, how did Williams and Turner's 2 truths and a lie play out? Did Shae appear? 

Ben dropped Bran at weirwood tree and said he could not go further because of the enchantments of the Wall. (You could still dropped him at gate). Then Bran goes connects himself to the net (Meera asks first: are you ready? I love Meera in this scene but then I love her always). And then you have the ToJ where Bran sees Ned running inside the Tower and seeing Lyanna ... and a baby. 

I did not dislike this scene actually. 

25 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Oo, and another thing (!!):

Do the D&D understand how childbirth works - where babies come from?  Lyanna's clothes and bedding look as if Alien had ripped out of her stomach.  Are they implying it was a botched Caesarean  - with her clothes on?  I mean - just what was that about?

Literal interpretation of a bed of blood? 

---

Question: Was Howland Reed really there? Someone mentioned it somewhere. 

[Sir Loin Steak]

7 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

I guess I don't have a huge issue with Jon not executing Mel as she could claim Stannis forced her to burn Shireen. Plus, Jon might lend some forgiveness since she did bring him back from the dead.

The problem there is that she didn't make that case, and logically she had to originate the idea (which she did and repeatedly pushed for blood sacrifice). Also they've been quite clear that Jon's really unhappy about being brought back from the dead for some reason.

I see Jon (the book version at least) as attempting a balancing act between trying to emulate Ned's example (I have no doubt Ned would've executed her under the same circumstances) and being pragmatic. So this sort of situation should provoke considerable inner conflict on Jon's part, simply cutting her loose seems like he was avoiding making a real choice - out of sympathy for Melisandre I guess?

But it seemed unnatural to me to even have Davos take it to Jon in the first place rather than acting unilaterally (which he did while serving Stannis despite his immense loyalty to the man). Then again this season's Davos was the one who beseeched Mel to bring Jon back from the dead, even though he didn't/shouldn't know that was even a possibility (let alone trying to bring back Jon without so much as a mention of Stannis).

Quote

A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. - Stannis Baratheon

Pretty sure Davos was a big believer in that ideology. 

[a black swan]

https://youtu.be/rzOpXpMgEzU

https://youtu.be/nRTP9SUkHl8?t=2m56s

Another clip of D&D writers confirming Sansa doesn't completely trust Jon. Is carrying anger and jealousy for being overlooked as Queen. Exactly the buttons LF will push next season. The last shot of LF had him smiling, not mad. Meanwhile, Jon will be too busy facing the WW threat and hooking up with Dany to notice what's happening until it's too late? Lets hope not.

[Ser Quork]

3 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

<> 

Literal interpretation of a bed of blood? 

---

Question: Was Howland Reed really there? Someone mentioned it somewhere. 

Very literal!

I said they could have put him there as there was a gathering of Northerners - but I don't think he was.

[Jairion Lannister]

Varys being on the ship did take me out the episode a bit admittedly. Would've made more sense to just have him stay in Dorne.

[SuperMario]

4 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

The problem there is that she didn't make that case, and logically she had to originate the idea (which she did and repeatedly pushed for blood sacrifice). Also they've been quite clear that Jon's really unhappy about being brought back from the dead for some reason.

I see Jon (the book version at least) as attempting a balancing act between trying to emulate Ned's example (I have no doubt Ned would've executed her under the same circumstances) and being pragmatic. So this sort of situation should provoke considerable inner conflict on Jon's part, simply cutting her loose seems like he was avoiding making a real choice - out of sympathy for Melisandre I guess?

But it seemed unnatural to me to even have Davos take it to Jon in the first place rather than acting unilaterally (which he did while serving Stannis despite his immense loyalty to the man). Then again this season's Davos was the one who beseeched Mel to bring Jon back from the dead, even though he didn't/shouldn't know that was even a possibility (let alone trying to bring back Jon without so much as a mention of Stannis).

Pretty sure Davos was a big believer in that ideology. 

Yeah, I agree. I was just saying that could have been the case. Of course D&D don't portray it that way.

[LadyDoom]

3 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

https://youtu.be/rzOpXpMgEzU

https://youtu.be/nRTP9SUkHl8?t=2m56s

Another clip of D&D writers confirming Sansa doesn't completely trust Jon. Is carrying anger and jealousy for being overlooked as Queen. Exactly the buttons LF will push next season. The last shot of LF had him smiling, not mad. Meanwhile, Jon will be too busy facing the WW threat and hooking up with Dany to notice what's happening until it's too late? Lets hope not.

So basically Jon is up to be betrayed again by "family" except this time is actual real blood family. Sansa is back at being played by LF. I seriously can't. sigh. 

 

[SuperMario]

15 minutes ago, Apathetic Onlooker said:

I'm curious how the Northern houses are going to suddenly have the courage to send men to fight for their king against goddamn ice zombies when they all collectively refused this same king and acted like sissies against a far less threatening House Bolton that had no southern support and no hostages to keep them from revolting.

Yeah... sounds like a winning army.

Yeah, they are a great army.

Manderly: "Basically, I am a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Glover: "I was insolent and a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Cerwyn: "I, too, am a pussy, but likewise, I declare for the King in the North."

Jon: "..........."

[Le Cygne]

Benioff didn't say Sansa wanted to be queen, he said she "doesn't necessarily trust" Jon, because she didn't tell him about LF, there's "definitely a little hint of conflict there," and then he cites the war council where "no one asks her opinion" and says there is "a little bit of anger about that, and a little bit of jealousy." Sounds like they are just using her to stir things up.

[Wall Flower]

2 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Yeah, they are a great army.

Manderly: "Basically, I am a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Glover: "I was insolent and a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Cerwyn: "I, too, am a pussy, but likewise, I declare for the King in the North."

Jon: "..........."

They all declared for Jon because they were worried Sansa was going to feed them to the dogs.

[Apathetic Onlooker]

5 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Yeah, they are a great army.

Manderly: "Basically, I am a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Glover: "I was insolent and a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Cerwyn: "I, too, am a pussy, but likewise, I declare for the King in the North."

Jon: "..........."

Funny thing is, if I were Jon-- I'd be goddamn insulted.  I'd think they were deliberately trying to drive a wedge between me and my other family members, when a more legitimate claimant is sitting right next to me (not to mention I know Bran is still alive).  They wouldn't stand by me when it counted, but now they want me to be King in the North when the legitimate ruler is Sansa (as far as they know)?  I'd suspect malicious intent and think their feigned loyalty was just a way to buutter me up and put Stark against Stark.  It's a wonder Jon didn't take their heads.

[SuperMario]

The whole problem with Sansa is she could become irrelevant. She pretty much has two choices. She either joins Littlefinger and becomes "evil" and an antagonist to Jon. Or she kills Littlefinger and backs up Jon as king and then really has no purpose.

So unless the showrunners make her an antagonist, she really would become irrelevant at that point. Yet another horrible repercussion by having Sansa be in the north in season 5.

[Le Cygne]

11 hours ago, SuperMario said:

The whole problem with Sansa is she could become irrelevant. She pretty much has two choices. She either joins Littlefinger and becomes "evil" and an antagonist to Jon. Or she kills Littlefinger and backs up Jon as king and then really has no purpose.

So unless the showrunners make her an antagonist, she really would become irrelevant at that point. Yet another horrible repercussion by having Sansa be in the north in season 5.

True, she could have had her purpose from her own story, if they hadn't cut it. This is just filler...

[Arrow of the Morning]

1 hour ago, Ser Quork said:

Oo, and another thing (!!):

Do the D&D understand how childbirth works - where babies come from?  Lyanna's clothes and bedding look as if Alien had ripped out of her stomach.  Are they implying it was a botched Caesarean  - with her clothes on?  I mean - just what was that about?

May be she didn't give birth to a baby, but expelled a chestbuster there.

[Mister Stoneheart]

35 minutes ago, Jairion Lannister said:

Varys being on the ship did take me out the episode a bit admittedly. Would've made more sense to just have him stay in Dorne.

That and how horribly he was green-screened into the scene.

[Mister Stoneheart]

33 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Yeah, they are a great army.

Manderly: "Basically, I am a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Glover: "I was insolent and a pussy, but I declare for the King in the North."

Cerwyn: "I, too, am a pussy, but likewise, I declare for the King in the North."

Jon: "..........."

All 3 can be summed up as:

3 lords: Hi, no one knows who we are (except maybe some of you book readers, lol), but we support Jon.  Yada yada, we're boring.  Blah blah blah.

Lyanna Sue "Reverse Ollie": Bad ass! Bad ass!  Aren't I great?  I'm so hip.  D&D made me up, screw those other (book) characters.  I'm awesome.  RAWR.  Bad-ASS anti-Ollie!!!!!

[Ser Quork]

Just watched Linda's review.  Frey pies being theft and salt in the big, stabby wounds, "plot holes in Winterfell you could drive Balerion through", and, of course, Doran-theft - SPOT ON, LINDA!  Right with you!