[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

[Le Cygne]

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Oh, there's a plot, and there's a message from the Show.  It's just nothing like the message we get from reading the series.

But we all saw the show. We all get what passes for a plot and what passes for a message from the show.

We can still say, that's really dumb. That's the point of the thread, in fact.

[Aryya Stark]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

No one deserves to be bullied. Torture of any kind is subject to disparagement, especially on a rants thread.

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Oh, there's a plot, and there's a message from the Show.  It's just nothing like the message we get from reading the series.

Terrible things happen in the series.  Good people die in horrible circumstances, sometimes as a result of doing good.  Characters that are sympathetic do morally dubious things.  But, it's clear that the author thinks that doing good in terrible circumstances is the right thing to do, even if it costs you;  that revenge is counter-productive;  that war is evil, even if it is sometimes a necessary evil;  that however bad things get, good deeds still shine out.  that Westeros is a society with a moral code, even if it's buckling under the stress of civil war.

The message from the Show is that revenge is good;  pity and mercy are stupid;  that total cruelty and ruthlessness are the ways to win and hold power. 

 

THIS!

[Aryya Stark]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

But we all saw the show. We all get what passes for a plot and what passes for a message from the show.

We can still say, that's really dumb. That's the point of the thread, in fact.

Yes, and that is why we should keep ranting because the messages are so diverse.

[WinterPool Stark]

10 minutes ago, Aryya Stark said:

This is the Rant and Rave thread, where we the book readers are allowed a venue to express our frustrations without repercussions....please lets stick to that because this is my only venue to vent and I don't want it spoiled where I have to be careful about expressing my opinions in case someone gets offended.  

I agree and I hang out here for the same reasons but calling other people stupid because they like to interpret things their own way is not needed and stops people expressing their opinions about the characters here.

[Le Cygne]

9 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I don't give a shit what they're reasons are. I think that thinking that the brutal torture and rape of someone is somehow awesome or something that should be condoned is dumb.

 

So what? That doesn't mean Cersei should get free pass here just because other characters have done questionable things. This entire line of argument is irrelevant to the question of whether what Cersei did here should be perceived as good or bad.

And yeah, if somebody sits there and says they think potential rape and brutal torture are things that are awesome, I am going to like seriously wonder what fuckin planet they come from.

I don't give a damn about reasons, either. There are no reasons to justify rape and torture.

And yeah, it's fine to condemn things like rape and torture, no matter who does it or why.

[SeanF]

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

But we all saw the show. We all get what passes for a plot and what passes for a message from the show.

We can still say, that's really dumb. That's the point of the thread, in fact.

It's a horrible message, that's for sure.

1 minute ago, Aryya Stark said:

 

 

[Aryya Stark]

Can we rant a bit about Arya please?....my favorite character in the books is so butchered...I hate the screen Arya. The whole Frey pies thing just killed her character for me....IT WAS SO STUPID!

[Le Cygne]

1 minute ago, Aryya Stark said:

Can we rant a bit about Arya please?....my favorite character in the books is so butchered...I hate the screen Arya. The whole Frey pies thing just killed her character for me....IT WAS SO STUPID!

I hate the parallel with Cersei. At no point reading the books or watching the show did I ever think, oh, Arya is just like Cersei.

[Aryya Stark]

Just now, Le Cygne said:

I hate the parallel with Cersei. At no point reading the books or watching the show did I ever think, oh, Arya is just like Cersei.

Exactly, and I wanted more emotion from her, that was such a jolly murder. 

[The Prince of Porne]

17 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

No one deserves to be bullied. Torture of any kind is subject to disparagement, especially on a rants thread.

You seem like a human being with morals...congrats.

22 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Unella was a bully.  If you're keen on karmic justice, she deserves to be bullied.

She certainly doesn't deserve prolonged torture, and probable rape.

Agreed. Hell, I'm in the camp that didn't like having a defenseless Ramsay eaten alive by dogs (even though he "deserved it" and killed others in the same way). Would have preferred to see him tried for his crimes and executed in the Northern tradition, but I knew he had to die in some sadistic way in order to satisfy the audience's bloodlust.

Justice is for 'weak men,' taking revenge in the most violent and cruel way possible is for Boss Ass empowered persons.

16 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

I think at some point when have to stop and think "what the hell is this plot?" David Benioff. Speaking about GoT S6!

This is so awesome.

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Aryya Stark said:

Can we rant a bit about Arya please?....my favorite character in the books is so butchered...I hate the screen Arya. The whole Frey pies thing just killed her character for me....IT WAS SO STUPID!

I can't wait to watch it, I'm sure it's hilariously stupid from what I've read. And yeah, I love book Arya but can't stand show Arya. 

[Sir Loin Steak]

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

London was mostly a wooden city in 1666.  Kings Landing (Dubrovnik) in the Show is stone.

But, it was undoubtedly fortunate that other caches of wildfire weren't triggered, not that I imagine Cersei would have cared if half the city had been burned down.

Here's a picture of show King's Landing which gives a good idea of the scale of the Sept relative to the rest of the city (KL's geography is inconsistent but this is from season 5 episode 6, so it's quite recent). http://i.imgur.com/TIsPTIb.jpg 

I concede that Dubrovnik has predominantly stone buildings (what we see on screen is very anachronistic compared to what KL should look like but I guess we have to accept what we see). That would slow the spread compared to predominantly wooden buildings, but the interior structure and contents is going to involve wood and the shock wave would likely damage or collapse nearby stone and brick structures. There's still going to be plenty of other flammable material in a medieval city, and the wildfire itself can't be extinguished with water (secondary fires could be). I'd still expect that Flea Bottom should be a tinder box at the least and we know from Jaime that it also has wildfire caches underneath it. We also know from Jaime that he didn't tell anyone about them.

Back in season 2 prior to the Battle of the Blackwater characters talked up wildfire a lot, we were warned that dropping a single jar could end up burning the city to the ground. We've also heard a lot about how the jars of wildfire are sensitive and get more volatile with age.

All in all, there should be a lot more devastation than what we saw, which diminishes how reckless and evil this action by Cersei was. As you say, Cersei probably wouldn't care if half the city burned, but this did end up reducing just how stupid and genocidal this choice was. It is also at odds with the show's own continuity.

I know I'm focusing rather a lot on a relatively small problem compared to the multitude of cavernous plot-holes on the show. 

[OldGimletEye]

5 minutes ago, Aryya Stark said:

Can we rant a bit about Arya please?....my favorite character in the books is so butchered...I hate the screen Arya. The whole Frey pies thing just killed her character for me....IT WAS SO STUPID!

Well to be honest, I think her show Braavos arc was boring, even more the usual boring. I'm glad just to see her back in Westeros now.

Hopefully they won't fuck her up too.

[Aryya Stark]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

I can't wait to watch it, I'm sure it's hilariously stupid from what I've read. And yeah, I love book Arya but can't stand show Arya. 

It was really bad....but I won't ruin it for you. Pun intended 

[Apathetic Onlooker]

16 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I don't give a shit what they're reasons are. I think that thinking that the brutal torture and rape of someone is somehow awesome or something that should be condoned is dumb.

 

So what? That doesn't mean Cersei should get free pass here just because other characters have done questionable things. This entire line of argument is irrelevant to the question of whether what Cersei did here should be perceived as good or bad.

And yeah, if somebody sits there and says they think potential rape and brutal torture are things that are awesome, I am going to like seriously wonder what fuckin planet they come from.

Now now, don't be mean-- you might be triggering the show-fans.  We can't say people's opinions are stupid on the internet, because everyone knows that in the First World, offensive language gives people PTSD.  Just because a person may not be capable of handling the fact that someone doesn't agree with their (completely fucking ridiculous) view on storytelling, doesn't mean we should challenge it.  In fact, it may just be better if we don't say anything at all.  After all, a rant thread is best conducted in complete, passive-aggressive silence.  

After all, what's wrong with a little non-consensual sexual intercourse!  I mean, it's all relative really.  Who among you hasn't raped before?  Don't knock it until you've tried it, as the saying goes!  It's a very um... empowering experience.  Just ask ole Carol!

[Wayward Sand Star]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

I can't wait to watch it, I'm sure it's hilariously stupid from what I've read. And yeah, I love book Arya but can't stand show Arya. 

Honestly, can you really say there's a single show character you actually like? I also haven't see the episode yet, but from what I've read, my reaction is pretty much the same throughout this season: poor, poor actors.

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Sand Star said:

Honestly, can you really say there's a single show character you actually like? I also haven't see the episode yet, but from what I've read, my reaction is pretty much the same throughout this season: poor, poor actors.

Very good point, and no, there isn't a single show character I like at this point other than Ghost and Nym; I hope they never show their furry muzzles ever again. 

[Apathetic Onlooker]

10 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well to be honest, I think her show Braavos arc was boring, even more the usual boring. I'm glad just to see her back in Westeros now.

Hopefully they won't fuck her up too.

In my mind, they already have.  Arya having the ability to premeditate the cutting up of people who aren't on her list, grind them into mincemeat, and serve them in pie before grinning as she slits a man's throat from ear to ear has already ruined her characterization in my mind.  I don't care if the pie thing happens in the books-- there's a world of difference between having Manderly and ARYA do it.  Arya may be a bit cold, but her killings have usually been out of duty or necessity.  The one time in the books she kills out of revenge, she has a breakdown.  Because that's how a normal human child would react to conducting an act of passionate and extreme violence. 

What is there to sympathize with or admire in a girl that is now an ax-murdering sociopath?  She's as bad as hannibal lecter now, eating someone's brain with a fork.  The Braavos arc may have been a big boring waste of time, but this last episode transformed her into a total American-Psycho headcase that I couldn't begin to relate to or care about.  I don't care if Walder 'deserved' it (a theme the Theon arc should have disabused in people but I digress), this was sick. 

[Wayward Sand Star]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Very good point, and no, there isn't a single show character I like at this point other than Ghost and Nym; I hope they never show their furry muzzles ever again. 

Exactly. What still baffles me is how come no one has called this show out for being what it truly is: a parody of ASOIAF.

[William_Tell]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Sand Star said:

Honestly, can you really say there's a single show character you actually like? I also haven't see the episode yet, but from what I've read, my reaction is pretty much the same throughout this season: poor, poor actors.

The Nights King. At least, he was a wonderfully intriguing humanoid abomination in Hardhome. This season he got a quick explanation of his existence and lost much of his mystery. Still like him but of course he is not a proper a character. but then again you would be hard pressed to find one of those in the show.