[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

[TepidHands]

18 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

As I recall, he said he did die but the CotF stopped the Others' magic taking hold.  So he's Undead but not a wight.

Yep, we were swindled out of great older actors.

Dillane and McElhatton got more a better deal than poor Max Von Sydow. Absolute stunt casting. 

ETA: Or Ian McShane, for that matter, though he pretty much played it off as exactly that, a check. 

[Le Cygne]

9 minutes ago, Liver and Onions said:

I admit, book Jon is a favorite of mine, and I don't think Kit does a bad job, with good direction. But now you've got me dreaming of a Stannis/Jon battle team-up versus the Boltons Senior and Junior. (Multiple characters being awesome and consistent in one place? Pinch me!) 

As long as I'm dreaming, the TARDIS teleports into the North, Sandor steps out, kills Littlefinger, declares everything, "sorted!" And then there's a big dance number. Stannis grinds his teeth. It makes more sense than season 6 as a whole. 

Would have been much more entertaining.  

[Lady Fevre Dream]

3 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

So it wasn't clear to some people that Cersei was acting very badly here?

Maybe they weren't tipped off by the fact that the Hellraiser guy called Cersei and asked for his dress back.

Hahaha, reasons like this are why, sometimes, I'm glad I take the time to catch up when I'm a bazillion pages back.

Cersei's Hellraiser Dress........YES!!  I think we have a keeper!!

[The Ned's Little Girl]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Oh, there's a plot, and there's a message from the Show.  It's just nothing like the message we get from reading the series.

Terrible things happen in the series.  Good people die in horrible circumstances, sometimes as a result of doing good.  Characters that are sympathetic do morally dubious things.  But, it's clear that the author thinks that doing good in terrible circumstances is the right thing to do, even if it costs you;  that revenge is counter-productive;  that war is evil, even if it is sometimes a necessary evil;  that however bad things get, good deeds still shine out.  that Westeros is a society with a moral code, even if it's buckling under the stress of civil war.

The message from the Show is that revenge is good;  pity and mercy are stupid;  that total cruelty and ruthlessness are the ways to win and hold power. 

Exactly this. I would add one thing: total cruelty and ruthlessness are the ways to win and hold power and only those who live accordingly are worthy of respect.

 

2 hours ago, Wayward Sand Star said:

Exactly. What still baffles me is how come no one has called this show out for being what it truly is: a parody of ASOIAF.

Well, we-all are doing a pretty good job of it. 

[Le Cygne]

7 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Hahaha, reasons like this are why, sometimes, I'm glad I take the time to catch up when I'm a bazillion pages back.

Cersei's Hellraiser Dress........YES!!  I think we have a keeper!!

It's so fug! She outdid herself this time. It's got all the usual qualities, stiff heavy drapery fabric, extremely uncomfortable looking, unflattering to the female figure, looking like it came from another story, ... and, well, just plain fug.

[Aryya Stark]

39 minutes ago, TheSerb said:

IIRC, Benjen explains that he never actually died, but almost died. So now he's somewhere in the middle. Still sucks, though, because we have been wondering about this guy for years and years and if this is what it all amounted to, then fuck.

 

32 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

As I recall, he said he did die but the CotF stopped the Others' magic taking hold.  So he's Undead but not a wight.

Yep, we were swindled out of great older actors.

See I totally missed that...probably because I was bored to death and my mind was wandering lol. Did he say where he has been all this time? Or is he just wandering around north of the Wall with no purpose?

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

It's so fug! She outdid herself this time. It's got all the usual qualities, stiff heavy drapery fabric, extremely uncomfortable looking, unflattering to the female figure, looking like it came from another story, ... and, well, just plain fug.

It's sort of in keeping with the show doing the opposite...that the costumes they create to make a big impression, are often the worst...Sandra's bird dress, Marg's wedding dress and dinky necklace, and now this, extremely ugly black dress contraption that Carol is wearing.

[Aryya Stark]

31 minutes ago, Kelly Koehorst said:

May I rant a little? Usually not much of a talker, but upset and have to vent... Here goes.

The finale got a perfect 10 on imdb, unbelievable. Blowing up stuff and killing is more important than decent writing apparently.

I'm not complaining about direction, effects, music and all that, it's the writing and some of the acting that ruins so much for me. The last two seasons have gone downhill really fast for me. D&D knew for years in advance that they would have to finish the story themselves, they had plenty of time to come up with something much more decent than this. Honestly, when viewers/fans can come up with better story lines/theories than professional, paid writers, something is wrong.

Characters are suffering from multiple personality disorder, making it very hard for me to root for anyone anymore. Tyrion is a cliche of his former self, literally 'drinking and knowing stuff', Sansa is a dumb lying broad, Arya a psycho and it goes on and on. Not to mention a lot of the important roles are played by actors with not too little range. Probably why Dany's scenes have always been so boring.

Story lines being brought up only to lead absolutely nowhere, Riverlands was pointless, no characters evolved or anything. I was looking forward to some nice Tully Frey action but was left disappointed. Cercei gets away with mass murder and is crowned like its no big deal. Wildfire also didn't seem very wild anymore. I could fill pages with everything wrong with the last two seasons...

Oh and the teleporting, Bran and Sam take ages to get anywhere, but LF, Varys, Jaimie etc get wherever in less than an episode?

Not to mention bringing back characters only to kill them off almost immediately, like D&D have this giant broom and they are hastily sweeping the map of unwanted characters to prepare for the endgame. Next season characters will spontaneously drop dread the moment a new scene starts, that's how bad it will get. Death used to be shocking, sad, now it's not doing much for me anymore.

Also, some people actually prefer wolves over dragons, it's so unfair to cut and kill the wolves the way they do, and yet we get dragons shoved into our faces over and over(all 3 are still alive and well by the way)? Can't wait for a better adaption of the books, show D&D how it's supposed to be done. Are D&D reading these forums, do they care about our opinions?

Nice rant...absolutely agree with you. Oh and don't get me started on the wolves...sigh.

[kissdbyfire]

42 minutes ago, Kelly Koehorst said:

May I rant a little? Usually not much of a talker, but upset and have to vent... Here goes.

The finale got a perfect 10 on imdb, unbelievable. Blowing up stuff and killing is more important than decent writing apparently.

I'm not complaining about direction, effects, music and all that, it's the writing and some of the acting that ruins so much for me. The last two seasons have gone downhill really fast for me. D&D knew for years in advance that they would have to finish the story themselves, they had plenty of time to come up with something much more decent than this. Honestly, when viewers/fans can come up with better story lines/theories than professional, paid writers, something is wrong.

Characters are suffering from multiple personality disorder, making it very hard for me to root for anyone anymore. Tyrion is a cliche of his former self, literally 'drinking and knowing stuff', Sansa is a dumb lying broad, Arya a psycho and it goes on and on. Not to mention a lot of the important roles are played by actors with not too little range. Probably why Dany's scenes have always been so boring.

Story lines being brought up only to lead absolutely nowhere, Riverlands was pointless, no characters evolved or anything. I was looking forward to some nice Tully Frey action but was left disappointed. Cercei gets away with mass murder and is crowned like its no big deal. Wildfire also didn't seem very wild anymore. I could fill pages with everything wrong with the last two seasons...

Oh and the teleporting, Bran and Sam take ages to get anywhere, but LF, Varys, Jaimie etc get wherever in less than an episode?

Not to mention bringing back characters only to kill them off almost immediately, like D&D have this giant broom and they are hastily sweeping the map of unwanted characters to prepare for the endgame. Next season characters will spontaneously drop dread the moment a new scene starts, that's how bad it will get. Death used to be shocking, sad, now it's not doing much for me anymore.

Also, some people actually prefer wolves over dragons, it's so unfair to cut and kill the wolves the way they do, and yet we get dragons shoved into our faces over and over(all 3 are still alive and well by the way)? Can't wait for a better adaption of the books, show D&D how it's supposed to be done. Are D&D reading these forums, do they care about our opinions?

Welcome! 

Answering to the bold, I'd imagine they haven't for a really long time and  respectively. 

 

[TepidHands]

19 minutes ago, Apathetic Onlooker said:

You won't find many popular artist known for works made to appease governments, peoples, institutions, or social norms of their time.  The best ones are always the ones that depict controversial material either subversively or overtly.  Example:  "The Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov, who had to keep his work of parody against the Soviet Union in secret for fear of death by firing squad, versus ALL of the socialist realism 'artists' that were all party hacks trying to curry favor.  His work is remembered to this day.  Their's isn't.

I do have to say to this, at risk of Godwinning the thread: Leni Riefenstahl under the Nazis and Sergei Eisenstein in the early days of the USSR did quite well in their roles as state storytellers. What they served up at their masters' command was a celluloid version of bread and circuses, stuff that went down quite easily with the masses while containing plenty of the regime's addictive poisons. 

Thing is, I don't know what D&D's motivations are for making this "adaptation" in the way that they have. Profit is certainly one of them, that and power, and a path to bigger opportunities. But there are moments I'm reminded of watching the original "Batman," with its cartoony "BAM!" and "POW!!" titles, reminding us of when to cheer. The good guys were GOOD, the bad guys were BAD. It was great for an 8-year-old me. But I'm not 8 any more.

[SuperMario]

http://io9.gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-confirm-there-are-only-15-e-1782731578

Looks like they are ending it in 15 episodes tops:

Benioff quotes. Try not to laugh, if you can.

We’re trying to tell one cohesive story with a beginning, middle and end. As Dan said, we’ve known the end for quite some time and we’re hurtling towards it. Those last images from the show that aired last night showed that. Daenerys is finally coming back to Westeros; Jon Snow is king of the North and Cersei is sitting on the Iron Throne. And we know the Night King is up there, waiting for all of them. The pieces are on the board now. Some of the pieces have been removed from the board and we are heading toward the end game.

The thing that has excited us from the beginning, back to the way we pitched it to HBO is, it’s not supposed to be an ongoing show, where every season it’s trying to figure out new story lines. We wanted it to be one giant story, without padding it out to add an extra 10 hours, or because people are still watching it. We wanted to something where, if people watched it end to end, it would make sense as one continuous story. We’re definitely heading into the end game now.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

25 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

It's so fug! She outdid herself this time. It's got all the usual qualities, stiff heavy drapery fabric, extremely uncomfortable looking, unflattering to the female figure, looking like it came from another story, ... and, well, just plain fug.

It does just need some of Pinheads PINS.........poking out of either that Hellraiser Dress or even, over Cersei's short, by stylish, mom on the run hairdo?  LOL

[Le Cygne]

44 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Those last images from the show that aired last night showed that. Daenerys is finally coming back to Westeros; Jon Snow is king of the North and Cersei is sitting on the Iron Throne. And we know the Night King is up there, waiting for all of them. The pieces are on the board now. Some of the pieces have been removed from the board and we are heading toward the end game.

This is all we really got out of season 6.

(Although they are taking liberties with the Night's King, and also seems with emphasis...)

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-confirm-there-are-only-15-e-1782731578

Looks like they are ending it in 15 episodes tops:

Benioff quotes. Try not to laugh, if you can.

We’re trying to tell one cohesive story with a beginning, middle and end. As Dan said, we’ve known the end for quite some time and we’re hurtling towards it. Those last images from the show that aired last night showed that. Daenerys is finally coming back to Westeros; Jon Snow is king of the North and Cersei is sitting on the Iron Throne. And we know the Night King is up there, waiting for all of them. The pieces are on the board now. Some of the pieces have been removed from the board and we are heading toward the end game.

The thing that has excited us from the beginning, back to the way we pitched it to HBO is, it’s not supposed to be an ongoing show, where every season it’s trying to figure out new story lines. We wanted it to be one giant story, without padding it out to add an extra 10 hours, or because people are still watching it. We wanted to something where, if people watched it end to end, it would make sense as one continuous story. We’re definitely heading into the end game now.

I tried, but failed miserably!

 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Wayward Sand Star said:

7 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Exactly this. I would add one thing: total cruelty and ruthlessness are the ways to win and hold power and only those who live accordingly are worthy of respect.

 

 

That too.

With the exception of Tyrion, who is sanctified for some reason, every character is portrayed as being worse than their book counterpart.   Sometimes, this gets to the stage of their being the complete opposite of their book counterpart.  But what is "worse" in our eyes, is "better" in the eyes of the producers.

Book Asha is devastated to see what has been done to her brother;  Yara jokes about him being a eunuch, and wants him to man up or kill himself.  This is shown as being exactly what Theon needs to hear.

Book Ellaria delivers an impassioned plea in favour of peace.  Show Ellaria is a psychopathic terrorist who murders children.  This is portrayed as being a good thing, a blow in favour of womens' rights.

Book Cersei is without doubt a villain.  She's cruel, vain, and spiteful.  But, there are occasionally signs that she possesses a shred of a conscience.  Show Cersei incinerates hundreds of people, with every sign of pleasure, before going downstairs to torture a nun for kicks.  While I certainly thought these scenes were gripping, and well acted, I'm left with the uneasy sense that the producers want us to root for Cersei at this point.

Book Daenerys is torn between compassion and outrage at injustice, on the one hand, and acts of thoughtless cruelty on the other (sometimes prompted by the former).  She is loyal to her followers.   Show Daenerys burns a likely innocent man alive and  jokes about it;  twice has to be talked out of carrying out genocide;  weds a man at swordpoint and repeatedly insults him;  burns a group of Dothraki alive;  locks a servant in a vault to starve to death (when in the book, she actually holds the woman's hand and mops her brow as she's dying) ;  refuses even to listen to Jorah (in the book, she was going to forgive him, until he proved truculent and insolent) , and tells her lover, who has proved both loyal and competent, and risked his life for her, to get lost, without feeling a qualm. And, this proves what a badass she is.

Book Sansa is extremely compassionate, even managing to feel sympathy towards people who've wronged her.  Show Sansa refuses to share information that could save the lives of hundreds of soldiers, and smirks as her rapist is eaten alive. 

Book Arya has been broken by the horrors she's experienced.  Show Arya gleefully tricks a man into eating his own sons.

Now it can be fun to read books, or watch television shows, about essentially evil people trying to screw each other over.  To work well, such series generally need a good deal of black humour (Joe Abercrombie is very good at this).  But, it's in no sense a faithful adaptation of George Martin's series.

 

 

[Le Cygne]

All About Cersei:

Quote

Not to give a frustrating answer, but that’s what so much of next season is going to be about; finding out what Cersei’s mind-set is. Who is she? While Cersei has certainly done a lot of horrible things in her life and she could be a very cruel person, the one thing that was redemptive about her was, she genuinely loved her children. Now they’re all gone, and I think that is very interesting for us. Who is she without her children? The answer is something you’ll find out next season. That’s so much of what is to come that I’ll just give it away if I start delving into it now....

Going back to your question about who’s most interesting to write for? On lots of levels, she is the most interesting to write for, largely because Lena [Headey] is such an absolute genius actress. The character itself is somebody who is driven by motivations that are in some ways so base, so angry and negative. But in other ways, so understandable to anyone who takes the time to imagine what it means to be in her position, to have grown up in her situation, to have these children you’d do anything for, even if it means burning cities, buildings and people to the ground to keep them safe. It’s something lots of people can understand. The irony you pointed to earlier, is that the very action she takes leads her to lose the last and possibly sweetest of her children, all of that stuff feeds into her as a character who is endlessly interesting to think about on a daily basis.

http://deadline.com/2016/06/game-of-thrones-season-6-finale-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-hbo-1201780242/

[SuperMario]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I tried, but failed miserably!

 

Exactly. I also liked this quote:

The thing that has excited us from the beginning, back to the way we pitched it to HBO is, it’s not supposed to be an ongoing show, where every season it’s trying to figure out new story lines.

So they are trying to say they planned Dorne that way from the beginning?

[Cas Stark]

LMAO, who knew that it was really Carol Lannister who is the star of the show.  Maybe she will turn out to be AA.  

[SerMixalot]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

It's Lena Headey who said the scene with Unella was intended to be more brutal. 

It's disturbing the number of comments one reads who approve of what Cersei is doing to her.

So very very true

[Le Cygne]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

LMAO, who knew that it was really Carol Lannister who is the star of the show.  Maybe she will turn out to be AA.  

Yeah, I have a feeling they are shifting the emphasis from the books just a wee bit...