Who can Dany marry in Westeros?

[CrypticWeirwood]

2 minutes ago, Vhaegon Targaryen I said:

Maybe. Summer might still be alive in the end of TWoW, it is uncertain. I don't think bran would even want to warg in a dragon.  He is a stark not a targaryen. Honestly I believe that the three heads are tyrion and dany and Jon. They all have loved someone that died, all their mothers died giving birth to them, they all have the targaryen blood through the line of aerys and rhaella ( tyrion being a maybe), they all a disempowered whether bastardy, dwarfism, bad family members or other stuff, and all could have one of the three dragons

Bran can wear the skin of any beast that crawls or swims or flies.

Or, perhaps, of any man.

[Vhaegon Targaryen I]

30 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Bran can wear the skin of any beast that crawls or swims or flies.

Or, perhaps, of any man.

But dragons of all things. bran is a stark and doesn't have much interest for anyways.

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

I feel the need to remind everyone that this thread is in the tv section of the forum not the book section. There have been quite a few posts with information pertaining to the books. That info has no place here.

[Vhaegon Targaryen I]

3 minutes ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

I feel the need to remind everyone that this thread is in the tv section of the forum not the book section. There have been quite a few posts with information pertaining to the books. That info has no place here.

Not nessesarily. Book info helps in trying to predict what will happen next in the show. It's the reason there are all the theories that there are.

considering this a part of the books or show is an opinion. This argue meant could be swayed either way

[Le Cygne]

Of course you can talk books here. It's an adaptation of the books.

[Vhaegon Targaryen I]

6 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Of course you can talk books here. It's an adaptation of the books.

Thank you.

[Kytheros]

7 hours ago, Vhaegon Targaryen I said:

Maybe. Summer might still be alive in the end of TWoW, it is uncertain. I don't think bran would even want to warg in a dragon.  He is a stark not a targaryen. Honestly I believe that the three heads are tyrion and dany and Jon. They all have loved someone that died, all their mothers died giving birth to them, they all have the targaryen blood through the line of aerys and rhaella ( tyrion being a maybe), they all a disempowered whether bastardy, dwarfism, bad family members or other stuff, and all could have one of the three dragons

 

In the extraordinarily improbable event that Tyrion is a Targaryen, he is not of the line of Aerys and Rhaella. Unless you are also postulating that Tyrion is Rhaegar's bastard.

 

Summer (the Direwolf) is almost certainly dead in the Show, unless one of the Walkers ordered the wights off of him. On the other hand, we didn't see Bran acting like he'd lost his direwolf either, so ...

 

Head one and two are Dany and Jon, but I'm not sure who head number three is. If it's not a Targaryen-descendant, then it's probably one of the Stark children who skinchange it. Bran's the obvious choice, but it could also be Arya (who, in the books, has demonstrated she can skinchange an animal without giving up conscious control over her own body), or even Sansa (who is repeatedly associated with birds and other flight-related imagery). If head number three is a more distant relation to the Targaryens, it could even be one of the Martells or Sand Snakes.

Was the "Dragon must have three heads" even in the show? I don't remember.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

4 hours ago, Kytheros said:

In the extraordinarily improbable event that Tyrion is a Targaryen, he is not of the line of Aerys and Rhaella. Unless you are also postulating that Tyrion is Rhaegar's bastard.

This is a solid point.  I believe J+A=T is true in the books but even so this is a flaw in the theory.  Aerys and Rhaella were married by their father specifically because the woods with prophecied that the Prince that was Promised would come from their lines.  If the PtwP prophecy and the Three Heads of the Dragon prophecy are referring to the same three people then it doesn't seem to fit.  The most common rebuttal is that only Jon (or Dany) is tPtwP, the other two are simply the additional "heads" with Targaryen blood.

4 hours ago, Kytheros said:

 

Summer (the Direwolf) is almost certainly dead in the Show, unless one of the Walkers ordered the wights off of him. On the other hand, we didn't see Bran acting like he'd lost his direwolf either, so ...

 

Head one and two are Dany and Jon, but I'm not sure who head number three is. If it's not a Targaryen-descendant, then it's probably one of the Stark children who skinchange it. Bran's the obvious choice, but it could also be Arya (who, in the books, has demonstrated she can skinchange an animal without giving up conscious control over her own body), or even Sansa (who is repeatedly associated with birds and other flight-related imagery).

I admit, Jon + Dany + Bran/Arya/Sansa is a reasonable possibility because of the Warging thing.  

4 hours ago, Kytheros said:

If head number three is a more distant relation to the Targaryens, it could even be one of the Martells or Sand Snakes.

It makes much more narrative sense for it to be Tyrion, since he's actually a central character, and by J+A=T he has more Targaryen blood than any of these minor characters with Targaryen blood.  

4 hours ago, Kytheros said:

Was the "Dragon must have three heads" even in the show? I don't remember.

No, it wasn't.  Quite possible the show jettisons any other riders in order to avoid having to film three actors on dragon back (it's costly enough just to have to do Dany).  

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

13 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

 

Maybe you're right, but it seems like an obvious thing to do - whenever you have characters thrown together the past tends to come out.  At least if (and i think when) Tyrion and Jaime converse, then Tyrion will find out about what his allies really are.  

And there's no way that the Tyrion we see in the show would be ok with Myrcellas brutal murder.  Tywin is no comparison - he was a mass murderer and rapist,  and deserved to die.  Myrcella was innocent.  Tyrion has a thing about protecting the weak, much like Jon and Dany.  He will probably point out to those Snakes what Oberyn would have thought of their actions. 

Yes, QoT would have a problem with Jaime if and only if he's Cerseis pawn.  If he's broken with her what's the problem?  I'm assuming this happens pretty quick given that look he gave her.

She doesn't know her father, except as the "mad King" and Jaime as the guy who put him out of his and everyone else's misery.  

If i found out late in life that my father was a serial killer, and I met the cop who shot him to death just in time to save the next victim, I really don't think I'd hold it against that guy.  If I happened to meet him it would be an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't expect or put any shame on him.  

I think you've badly misread Jaimes character if you think he's Cerseis puppet.  Jaime has either directly disobeyed Cersei or done (moral) things he know she'd never want.  He is consistent in this since he returned wih Brienne.  His look at the end tells it all - he's completely horrified and knows she won't be on that throne long. 

With the speed the show is going and by passing all the small details, I am not surprised if Tyrion never question his niece death. 

I still doubt that Jamie will break up with Cersei, he might be the one who kill her in the end, but I don't think he will break up with her so soon. And the Tyrells technically lost the whole family, I doubt that hat QofT will give the Lannister any mercy. It's not just Cersei that Tyrells and Dorne want to kill. I am not surprised that they want to destroy everything the Lannisters ever had. Maybe Tyrion will be spared. 

Even if Dany doesn't hold any grudge towards Jamie because her father is a mad king, marrying the guy who broke his oath and killed her father is still horrible PR to the whole Westeros. I doubt that she will like that idea unless she fell in love with him hopelessly which I highly doubt. The fact is Jamie has very bad reputation in Westeros. 

And the Lannisters are not rich and influencial as before, technically 2/3 of Westeros are against them now, marrying a Lannister doesn't bring much to Dany. 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

40 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

With the speed the show is going and by passing all the small details, I am not surprised if Tyrion never question his niece death. 

There needs to be something to slow Dany's advance so that we can witness Cersei's ruinous reign.  It's likely Dany lands in Dorne and so it's likely that there will be a civil war in Dorne brought about by the Tyrion - Myrcella connection.  

40 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

I still doubt that Jamie will break up with Cersei, he might be the one who kill her in the end, but I don't think he will break up with her so soon.

Possible he remains at King's Landing and tries to save Cersei / get her to surrender.  It's almost certain, however, that Tyrion will talk to Jaime at some point before Dany attacks.  He will want to save Jaime.  

40 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

And the Tyrells technically lost the whole family, I doubt that hat QofT will give the Lannister any mercy. It's not just Cersei that Tyrells and Dorne want to kill. I am not surprised that they want to destroy everything the Lannisters ever had. Maybe Tyrion will be spared. 

This isn't consistent with what we see of the Queen of Thorns.  She has no problem with "The Lannisters".  

We see she has Kevan Lannister as a close ally for the whole season 6.  She also previously worked with and had a rapport with Tywin.  She conversed with Tyrion about financial matters during S6 in hilarious fashion but no apparent dislike.  We never saw QoT interact with Jaime other than when Cersei was also present (and was apparently doing her bidding).  And by the way, Jaime personally led the Tyrell army to the Sept of Baelor to rescue Margaery and Loras. 

It is Cersei she desires vengeance on.   It is Cersei's fault that the faith are armed, it's her fault the Margaery and Loras were captured by the faith, and it's her fault that they are all dead.  Not the Lannisters' fault.  Not Jaime's fault.  Not Tyrion's fault.  

Also QoT framed Tyrion for Joffery's death.  If anything she should be apologizing to him, not him apologizing to her for his last name.  Queen of Thorns hates Cersei and wants her death - she will accept anyone with open arms who is against Cersei.  

40 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

Even if Dany doesn't hold any grudge towards Jamie because her father is a mad king, marrying the guy who broke his oath and killed her father is still horrible PR to the whole Westeros. I doubt that she will like that idea unless she fell in love with him hopelessly which I highly doubt. The fact is Jamie has very bad reputation in Westeros. 

Absolutely, he's the Kingslayer and is despised by most.  That's why it's such an interesting possibility.  Again I don't see much of a reason why she would despise Jaime knowing what she does.  I do hope that Tyrion will point out to Jaime that Tywin was as much a monster as Aerys, and deserved to die just as surely.  

40 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

And the Lannisters are not rich and influencial as before, technically 2/3 of Westeros are against them now, marrying a Lannister doesn't bring much to Dany. 

The Lannisters have the largest single army in Southern Westeros that is not already on Dany's side.  I am assuming here that as Tywin's heir the Lannisiter army is loyal to Jaime, not to Cersei.  Alliance with Jaime has one major advantage to Dany - which is that she does not have to fight the Lannister army.  Meaning she removes the only remaining force Cersei has to defend herself.  That's a pretty big deal, especially if she learns about what's going on in the North at some point (then it's much more important that she avoid loosing too many of her troops since there's a larger struggle ahead).  

I think a harder issue with my theory is that Jaime has very little incentive to want to marry Dany.  He's not ambitious and has no desire to sit a seat of power (not even the one he has).  If Jaime decides to join Tyrion and Dany's cause the reason won't be because he desires power, because despite what others think, he doesn't.  It will be because he thinks it's the right thing to do.  Perhaps he would become convinced that it's the best match in order to avoid casualties of war.  

[Vhaegon Targaryen I]

6 hours ago, Kytheros said:

In the extraordinarily improbable event that Tyrion is a Targaryen, he is not of the line of Aerys and Rhaella. Unless you are also postulating that Tyrion is Rhaegar's bastard.

 

Summer (the Direwolf) is almost certainly dead in the Show, unless one of the Walkers ordered the wights off of him. On the other hand, we didn't see Bran acting like he'd lost his direwolf either, so ...

 

Head one and two are Dany and Jon, but I'm not sure who head number three is. If it's not a Targaryen-descendant, then it's probably one of the Stark children who skinchange it. Bran's the obvious choice, but it could also be Arya (who, in the books, has demonstrated she can skinchange an animal without giving up conscious control over her own body), or even Sansa (who is repeatedly associated with birds and other flight-related imagery). If head number three is a more distant relation to the Targaryens, it could even be one of the Martells or Sand Snakes.

Was the "Dragon must have three heads" even in the show? I don't remember.

 

2 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

This is a solid point.  I believe J+A=T is true in the books but even so this is a flaw in the theory.  Aerys and Rhaella were married by their father specifically because the woods with prophecied that the Prince that was Promised would come from their lines.  If the PtwP prophecy and the Three Heads of the Dragon prophecy are referring to the same three people then it doesn't seem to fit.  The most common rebuttal is that only Jon (or Dany) is tPtwP, the other two are simply the additional "heads" with Targaryen blood.

I admit, Jon + Dany + Bran/Arya/Sansa is a reasonable possibility because of the Warging thing.  

It makes much more narrative sense for it to be Tyrion, since he's actually a central character, and by J+A=T he has more Targaryen blood than any of these minor characters with Targaryen blood.  

No, it wasn't.  Quite possible the show jettisons any other riders in order to avoid having to film three actors on dragon back (it's costly enough just to have to do Dany).  

Yeah sorry about the confusion. That is only for Jon and Dany. Sorry. What I mean't was that all three have targaryen blood. I myself am unsure of the tyrion targaryen theory, however, it does have merit. If it is true, it would fit very well with the three heads prophecy. If tyrion acctually is a Lannister, then he might still be another head.

The 3rd head being a warg is still a possibility. Bran/Arya/Sansa might end being the third head. But in all honesty it will most likely be tyrion. He has met both Jon and Dany almost every other main character in the books and show. He is smart. He shares the same feeling of Bastardy and no real family like jon and Dany. Finally after jon and Dany, he is the next main character, however the last part is up to debate.

Summer most likely died in the shows thanks to budget problems as Dire wolfs are expensive. Yeah, but he is dead in the show. I was referring to the books.

It is still plausible that tyrion might be a targaryen, but again I am unsure of this. The theory makes some sense, while also making the tywin tyrion relationship something less. I personally have a theory for his features, blood, and dwarfism.

Tyrion might have had a twin while in the womb. Sometimes one twin can absorb the other, thereby giving tyrion two different sets of DNA in his body which can cause a whole host of things. It can cause mismatched eyes, Differing hair colours, and very rarely dwarfism. Their is one other person in ASOIAF that has this same thing, except for the dwarfism, that is .maelys the monstrous. If tyrion is targayen, he could have gotten a green eyes from joanna, and a really really dark purple one from aerys. As for the hair, same thing. Joanna might have given a black hair gene as a resssesive thing from her mothers side and a targaryen hair gene from aerys. To be clear, tyrion has both features because one of the twins had one and the other, the other. When the twins absorbed, tyrion would get both their features and have different DNA on various parts of his body. Side note, by twins i am referring to fraternal twins, not identical, andthe sort of genetic hiccup is called chimerism. Tyrion's mixed male and female genetials might also exist because of this. His dwarfism might have been caused by attempted abortion or more likely, his mixed genes.

 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

It seems like the culture on w.org is that you can post about book material without any kind of spoiler warning.  You are supposed to do spoiler warnings for unpublished book material, or for show material in the book forum (and you're not supposed to discuss show material AT ALL in the book forum).  

If people want to talk about the show without book material being discussed they really ought to go to another site - this site caters much more to book readers.  

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

4 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

It seems like the culture on w.org is that you can post about book material without any kind of spoiler warning.  You are supposed to do spoiler warnings for unpublished book material, or for show material in the book forum (and you're not supposed to discuss show material AT ALL in the book forum).  

If people want to talk about the show without book material being discussed they really ought to go to another site - this site caters much more to book readers.  

That's something we should work on then. Both sections should have the same respect and the same rules. If tv spoilers are not acceptible in the book section then book spoilers should not be acceptible in the tv section. Fair is fair.

[Vhaegon Targaryen I]

5 hours ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

That's something we should work on then. Both sections should have the same respect and the same rules. If tv spoilers are not acceptible in the book section then book spoilers should not be acceptible in the tv section. Fair is fair.

 

9 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

It seems like the culture on w.org is that you can post about book material without any kind of spoiler warning.  You are supposed to do spoiler warnings for unpublished book material, or for show material in the book forum (and you're not supposed to discuss show material AT ALL in the book forum).  

If people want to talk about the show without book material being discussed they really ought to go to another site - this site caters much more to book readers.  

I want to get this straight. Why can't you discuss show and book material in the same thread. The two go hand in hand. I am relatively new so I am a bit confused. So whenever you post a show thing in the book area, their has to be a spoiler alert? Does that apply the other way around? Finally, what are the implications to where/when/how the book and show info should be used? When and with what can you use the show information in the books and vice versa? Why can't you use show info in books but not the other way around? Should there even be a limitation as to what and what we can or can't post depending on whether it's more book or show?

[A spoon of knife and fork]

6 hours ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

That's something we should work on then. Both sections should have the same respect and the same rules. If tv spoilers are not acceptible in the book section then book spoilers should not be acceptible in the tv section. Fair is fair.

You can take it up with the Mods if you like.  I don't see any specific rule that says book content can't be discussed in general in the show forums.  And in my years of being here the culture I have witnessed is that most threads in the show forums include at least general discussion of the books, whether they are labeled as spoilers or not. 

Things were a little different in the past, when there were specific plot "spoilers" from the books, that presumably would eventually be adapted.  Like Ned's death.  The Red Wedding.  Etc.  Nowadays there really aren't "spoilers" from the books, in terms of specific plot events that will eventually be adapted.  Plots are now either beyond the books or jettisoned.  There's a lot of book material that won't be adapted, or that has been adapted but drastically differently.  I wouldn't consider it a spoiler to discuss these things and as far as I've seen the mods don't either. 

If you really want to avoid any book discussion you should stick to (and make) threads with the [No Spoilers] label.  

[A spoon of knife and fork]

48 minutes ago, Vhaegon Targaryen I said:

I want to get this straight. Why can't you discuss show and book material in the same thread. The two go hand in hand. I am relatively new so I am a bit confused. So whenever you post a show thing in the book area, their has to be a spoiler alert? Does that apply the other way around? Finally, what are the implications to where/when/how the book and show info should be used? When and with what can you use the show information in the books and vice versa? Why can't you use show info in books but not the other way around? Should there even be a limitation as to what and what we can or can't post depending on whether it's more book or show?

Here's the spoiler policy for the book area.

It's pretty strict - and was just clarified this season, since this is the first one which had a significant amount of real spoilers for the future book's plot.  "No spoilers of any kind in the book forums".  If you want to discuss the book using show knowledge, make a thread on the show forums, NOT the book forums.  

Like I said in the above post.  The culture really seems to be that book material which has been adapted already, or which has been clearly excluded from the show, can be discussed freely except in the show forum when the "No Spoilers" tag is used. And almost no one around here uses that tag, or participates in those discussions.  

The fact is that the majority of people on this particular forum are here because they want to discuss the books, or the show in comparison to the books.  There are plenty of other online forums that cater to people who just want to discuss the show without regard to the books.  

[khal drogon]

She believes marriage is necessary is to unite and consolidate Westeros. But when the Others arrive there will be no need for a marriage alliance. They have to ally to survive. So I don't think she should marry.

[Vhaegon Targaryen I]

39 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Here's the spoiler policy for the book area.

It's pretty strict - and was just clarified this season, since this is the first one which had a significant amount of real spoilers for the future book's plot.  "No spoilers of any kind in the book forums".  If you want to discuss the book using show knowledge, make a thread on the show forums, NOT the book forums.  

Like I said in the above post.  The culture really seems to be that book material which has been adapted already, or which has been clearly excluded from the show, can be discussed freely except in the show forum when the "No Spoilers" tag is used. And almost no one around here uses that tag, or participates in those discussions.  

The fact is that the majority of people on this particular forum are here because they want to discuss the books, or the show in comparison to the books.  There are plenty of other online forums that cater to people who just want to discuss the show without regard to the books.  

Thank you for the enlightenment. I am some one who wants to discuss both books and show. Sorry of all the confusion. I just have one question. If you are on the show forum, you can use book information and if you are on the book forum, you can't use show information. Is that correct?

[A spoon of knife and fork]

22 minutes ago, Vhaegon Targaryen I said:

Thank you for the enlightenment. I am some one who wants to discuss both books and show. Sorry of all the confusion. I just have one question. If you are on the show forum, you can use book information and if you are on the book forum, you can't use show information. Is that correct?

This seems to be the case.  You definitely cannot use show information on the book forum.  

In my experience, book information is generally discussed freely on the show forum at this point in time, except if the "No spoilers" tag is used, and that is rarely used. 

There is another type of spoiler to consider - things like casting and filming spoilers - so TV plot spoilers.  Like when filming of Kit Harrington leaked last summer.  It has been my experience that these spoilers are discussed freely on the show forum as well.  Personally I wish they weren't. 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

46 minutes ago, khal drogon said:

She believes marriage is necessary is to unite and consolidate Westeros. But when the Others arrive there will be no need for a marriage alliance. They have to ally to survive. So I don't think she should marry.

I generally agree this is what will happen.  However given that Tyrion / Dany / Daario discussed it during ep 10 I think it is likely that Dany's marriage prospects will be brought up when relevant.  In particular if / when she encounters / is attempting to negotiate with forces led by eligible men (Jaime / Jon / Robyn / Edmure).