Adam Yozza Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Señor de la Tormenta said: Viserys actually had a claim but Robert only ordered a hit when the targaryens moved to forge alliances in AGOT. Jon was not a threat, since the secret would had died with Ned. Except with Jon it wouldn't be about his claim. Either Lyanna was raped and Jon was the result, in which case I don't think he has the empathy to believe that Lyanna would care anyway. On the flip side, if it wasn't rape, then Jon was the walking, talking evidence that Lyanna didn't love him back. I'm not saying he would have definitely have killed Jon if he knew the truth (Robert is too impulsive to make a call like that), but I feel like it could have gone either way, and Ned was better off being safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Adam Yozza said: Except with Jon it wouldn't be about his claim. Either Lyanna was raped and Jon was the result, in which case I don't think he has the empathy to believe that Lyanna would care anyway. On the flip side, if it wasn't rape, then Jon was the walking, talking evidence that Lyanna didn't love him back. I'm not saying he would have definitely have killed Jon if he knew the truth (Robert is too impulsive to make a call like that), but I feel like it could have gone either way, and Ned was better off being safe than sorry. Probably thats how Lyanna felt.  The fact that she makes Ned promise, tells that Ned was probably thinking the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadows and dust Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 A more ambitious person than Ned could have used Jon to become King of the North. 1 hour ago, DominusNovus said: Presuming RLJ. Ned, goes to Robert after the ToJ, and says "This is my nephew, Lyanna's son by Rhaegar.  He's all I have left of her and she begged me to protect him with her dying words He's a bastard born of rape, and has no claim to the throne unless you yourself legitimized him.  I will raise him with my family in Winterfell, and he, as a bastard of the North, will join the Night's Watch when he comes of age, further removing any threat he poses to the succession by renouncing his claim and never siring any trueborn sons."  While there is a lot to think a prejudiced, unreasonable person like Robert would have still wanted Jon dead... When you lay the argument out like that it would make sense to a lot of people. And baby killing is the kind of thing people would probably object to. Consider Ned goes back home. Safely behind the walls of Winterfell he sends a raven the KL, "my nephew... lyanna's son/dying wish... will not give him stark name... night's watch..." Say he sends that raven not just to KL but to a number of castles in the North, the Riverlands, and The Reach. If Robert declares he'll march on Winterfell if Ned doesn't deliver Jon for execution, I think support outside of the Stormlands would be hard to come by and the North would be in a very powerful position to secede from the 7K. Considering the states of the various armies, post-war, I'd say advantage would be heavily skewed to the marched upon, not the marchers.  Completely off-topic, but alternate realities are fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Señor de la Tormenta said: Probably thats how Lyanna felt.  The fact that she makes Ned promise, tells that Ned was probably thinking the other way round. Lyanna making Ned promise is a mother wanting to hear that her child would be safe. As for Ned he had just came from KL where Rhaegar's children and wife were brutally murdered and Robert stood over their bodies dehumanizing them and condoning their deaths. I think Ned would have protected Jon from Robert with or without having to promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 12 minutes ago, The Wolves said: Lyanna making Ned promise is a mother wanting to hear that her child would be safe. As for Ned he had just came from KL where Rhaegar's children and wife were brutally murdered and Robert stood over their bodies dehumanizing them and condoning their deaths. I think Ned would have protected Jon from Robert with or without having to promise. If Robert had to punish Tywin for something  he did before he became the King should Robb had punished Hoster for something he did before he became the King? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. "Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!" Catelyn II AGOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwight Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I don't think he would have, since presumably it would have had to be over Ned's dead body. He might have never wanted to see Ned again after that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 12 minutes ago, Laughing Storm Reborn said: Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. "Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!" Catelyn II AGOT my signature deserves to be in yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 2 hours ago, shadows and dust said:  If Robert declares he'll march on Winterfell if Ned doesn't deliver Jon for execution, I think support outside of the Stormlands would be hard to come by and the North would be in a very powerful position to secede from the 7K. Considering the states of the various armies, post-war, I'd say advantage would be heavily skewed to the marched upon, not the marchers.  Completely off-topic, but alternate realities are fun. Robert is no Joffrey or Aerys... his charisma alone will mount many troops to the North, and war would only be made when everyone was back at 100%... there´s no way Ned would have a chance against him, Robert has more troops and is a better commander (not even counting Tywin and Stannis)... i'll give you that Jon Arryn might stale the Vale... but Robert won battles vastly outnumbered, give him the numbers and it´s suicide for the enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 18 minutes ago, Laughing Storm Reborn said: Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. "Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!" Catelyn II AGOT But but... Ned is delusional and he hasn't seen him for many years and he has bastards and he isn't emoPrince Charming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 13 minutes ago, Señor de la Tormenta said: my signature deserves to be in yours!  6 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: But but... Ned is delusional and he hasn't seen him for many years and he has bastards and he isn't emoPrince Charming! This is the same music all the time, the majority of writters make the last moments truly a character profile... Every damn time i read the Robert-Ned deathbed scene, i can´t for the life of me picture George writing that as if the dark lord was dying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Whether Robert would harm the kid or not, one thing is certain: he couldn't be trusted to keep his mouth shut. I definitely wouldn't gamble on Robert never revealing that secret. Other people might want Rhaegar's kid dead, not just Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If the way he wanted to murder Danny is indication, I can only imagine what he'd do to "Rhaegar's demon seed, that killed Lyanna". Â Now even if he didn't kill Jon, I'd imagine Tywin or one of his manly loyal followers would do it for him. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, WSmith84 said: Whether Robert would harm the kid or not, one thing is certain: he couldn't be trusted to keep his mouth shut. I definitely wouldn't gamble on Robert never revealing that secret. Other people might want Rhaegar's kid dead, not just Robert. Now that's a bingo, caro colega... If Lyanna thinks Robert would kill a child in spite of Ned being the uncle pleading for his life... then she knew him as much as he knew her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, sifth said: If the way he wanted to murder Danny is indication, I can only imagine what he'd do to "Rhaegar's demon seed, that killed Lyanna". He wanted to attack Dany only after she actively started to conspire against him. The fact that she and Viserys were left alive for so many years is a proof that he wouldn't had killed Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ned and Rob had had a falling out by the time of the ToJ when Robert refused to punish the Lannisters for killing Rhaegar's children. It led to a break that lasted 15 years. I think Ned had seen Rob with his blood up and on hearing that Lyanna has born a child, by rape or by love, would have mattered little. He probably would have killed the infant for vengeance for the actions of the father by rape or the mother by betrayal. Ned certainly believed him able to kill children which is why he warned Cersei to get her children out of KL before informing Rob he was a cuckold. Joffrey was evil and Rob knew it but Myrcella was kind (and a bit vapid) and Tommen the same. Rob would have killed them all as a grown man so he would have had little hesitation as a young one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Just now, Laughing Storm Reborn said: Now that's a bingo, caro colega... If Lyanna thinks Robert would kill a child in spite of Ned being the uncle pleading for his life... then she knew him as much as he knew her It's a hard call when you're trying to place Roberts love for Ned vs his hate of the Targs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Minuteman said: when Robert refused to punish the Lannisters for killing Rhaegar's children I have a question. Does any one has to punish someone for what he has done before he came into power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: He wanted to attack Dany only after she actively started to conspire against him. The fact that she and Viserys were left alive for so many years is a proof that he wouldn't had killed Jon. So the attack on Dragon Stone doesn't count either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Just now, sifth said: So the attack on Dragon Stone doesn't count either? He sent Stannis to arrest them not to kill them. Its only natural that the new King would need to have his enemies under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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