Aegon's absence is really noticeable now

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Varys was screwed hard by his absence no doubt. I'll be honest though, I'm glad he's gone, because he really is just filler, and his inclusion would've meant more awful Dorne screen time.

[CrypticWeirwood]

34 minutes ago, illinifan said:

And? FAegon is supposed to be a moral and perfect prince.  

That’s FJon’s fjob and you know it.

[Iron Mother]

On 6/29/2016 at 4:49 PM, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Before I go into the topic I want to say while I hate many of the changes D&D have made cutting Aegon is one I totally get seeing as he was introduced so late in the game. Now having said that yeah his absence is really noticeable now, the plot has become way too narrow and predictable right now with half the kingdom with Dany and the other half with Jon and the evil queen right in the middle. Aegon was one of those wildcards that made the plot a bit more unpredictable and added a third element to everything that is now gone. Also the plot has become way too pro-Dany with Donre, the Reach, Tyrion, Varys, Dothraki, Second sons, and the Unsullied all on her side. Aegon with Varys, Golden Company, Dorne and possible the Stormlands with him gave Dany a struggle to overcome but now? She is gonna take KL with ease and probably after team up with Jon.

It's an awful omission because Daenerys is assumed now to be the total expected Promised Person to remake the world.  To have ANOTHER Targaryen in the mix completely screws her over.  Especially since Aegon's father was actually the next in line for the throne.  If Aegon had lived, Aerys and Rhaegar are dead, Dany is just an infant... Aegon would WITHOUT DOUBT become the heir.  As far as Dorne, yes that was Tyrion's advice, but remember he was not talking about this cray cray illegal murderous kingdom of Elaria Nobody.... he was talking about aligning with the Ruling House of Prince Doran, QUENTYN (a whole other story - he was already attempting to court Dany for coming to Dorne as a base of operations) plus Trystane (the youngest one in curls) and the middle daughter, Jan - Arianne!  All of these people got wiped.

THEN tied to Aegon you have the house of Griffin's Roost with Jon Connington who has spent the last 18 years grooming Aegon in secret.... In the book, he re-took Griffin's Roost and Aegon could have landed there to launch his banners.

I can't believe the people of Westeros wouldn't simply fall to their knees for Aegon as opposed to this self-titled long-named woman who happened to hatch dragon eggs in the desert.... who leaves violence and pestilence in her wake wherever she goes just because she thinks it is right.  Can you say AERYS?????

She has dragons.  Coolest thing ever.  What about all the people of Westeros who know what mayhem dragons and Targaryens can wield on them if they aren't careful?  This unknown legend who is made on FREEING SLAVES (which there are no slaves in Westeros so who would care?)

Does anyone in Westeros care she is "unburnt" of "the great grass sea" and "breaker of chains"?  Does anyone in Westeros know what a Khalassar is?  Daenerys is a NOBODY to Westeros.  They are all courting her because she's a powerful force with dragons. 

Can any of you see Daenerys on the Iron Throne all chilled with her fat lazy well-fed dragons just hanging out on the sides of the court?  And her holding small council meetings?  Daenerys knows how to fight, what happens when the fight is over?  At least Aegon was trained all his life by a MAESTER, a SEPTA and a WARRIOR........ he is way more fit to lead Westeros than Daenerys can hope to be.

It's the saddest portion of the book to be deleted, IMO.  I can't choose between that or the abomination that is Dorne right now.  So much that I switched my DEADPOOL from Cersei to Elaria.  That says a lot because I freaking hated Cersei.  Still do, but so much less than the faux sand serpents.  Ollena never begged to anyone in her life probably.  But she goes into Dorne alone for an alliance with NOBODIES.  Elaria (NOT a sand snake btw) is nothing.  She's a pretty Gendry without royal blood.  None of the Sand Snakes are her children! 

WHO IS SHE?  Yet she murdered the royal family and presumably speaks for Dorne OUT OF NOWHERE. 

THAT IS WET SAND.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, illinifan said:

And? FAegon is supposed to be a moral and perfect prince.  

There's a difference between being a good ruler and being a moral and perfect prince which I don't think Aegon will actually be only give the appearance of

[Iron Mother]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

There's a difference between being a good ruler and being a moral and perfect prince which I don't think Aegon will actually be only give the appearance of

where does that quote come from?  That's not from the book

did you mean Aegon was a pretender good guy?

[GravyFace]

On July 1, 2016 at 10:31 PM, Rubicante said:

That's a pretty big gamble to make.  Didn't Jorah's part in providing information to Varys give him a royal pardon to return to Westeros? 

Varys could've sent fake poison wine. Nobody ever actually drank it, so we don't know if it was really poisoned. Varys could've made the wine merchant believe it was poisoned, and also told the little bird to tell Jorah, so that he had his bases covered. Dany wouldn't actually drink the wine with Jorah/little bird's help, and if she had by some chance then she wouldn't have died. All while keeping up appearances for King Robert.

[boojam]

On 6/30/2016 at 3:39 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Think it just shows that Martin realised his own story was going to be very straightforward and so threw in the Aegon curveball late in the play in order to mix things up. I'm happy its been taken out though, its simply a roadblock.. filler.

It really seems a consequence of George's 'gardening' style of story telling.  On the page GRRM makes all these branchings and new characters engaging because he is such a good writer. Seems tho this has created a problem for him in finishing Winds of Winter, seems, he is delayed in finishing that book because he needs to unify a ton of arcs in order to set up the end game. I know he is trying to do this in the most logical and aesthetically reasonable manner. I hope Winds of Winter does not turn into two books!

[Eddard Scissorhands]

11 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

That sample chapter was enough but I've already been saying that Euron will be the closest thing to a Big Bad we'll get in this series before the sample chapter came out. 

A lot of subtext is pointing that way. 

Plus D & D have already confirmed that the Others really are just omnicidal ice demons so they're not all that interesting. They're just something for the heroes to fight at the end.

1. Bit kinda late for that too I think, in order to be truly invested (if one were to judge the character as strictly as Aegon's)

2. Really? Damn. What a waste...

[Eddard Scissorhands]

8 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

That’s FJon’s fjob and you know it.

Except he's not.

[illinifan]

6 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

There's a difference between being a good ruler and being a moral and perfect prince which I don't think Aegon will actually be only give the appearance of

I don't think that FAegon is either a particularly good guy or a particularly good ruler.

[boojam]

11 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

That sample chapter was enough but I've already been saying that Euron will be the closest thing to a Big Bad we'll get in this series before the sample chapter came out. 

A lot of subtext is pointing that way. 

Plus D & D have already confirmed that the Others really are just omnicidal ice demons so they're not all that interesting. They're just something for the heroes to fight at the end.

From my reading of the 5 published books that's what George is setting up too, well actually GRRM got there first.

[Iron Mother]

3 hours ago, illinifan said:

I don't think that FAegon is either a particularly good guy or a particularly good ruler.

That's like saying Jon Connington was on the lam because he was transitioning from man to woman in secret and wanted to come out fresh.

Are you drawing from fan fiction?

I should have ™ FAegon when I created it here.  I knew it was too awesome not to abuse.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

4 hours ago, Eddard Scissorhands said:

1. Bit kinda late for that too I think, in order to be truly invested (if one were to judge the character as strictly as Aegon's)

2. Really? Damn. What a waste...

1. You'll have more books with him.

2. Yup and that's also how GRRM described them in his outline for book one. I'm okay with this. The Others aren't supposed to be deep characters. They're an allegory for the real problems that humanity doesn't want to deal with made into a race for ice demons. They're GRRM's mummer's dragon. Something for the heroes to unite together and fight against.

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, Iron Mother said:

That's like saying Jon Connington was on the lam because he was transitioning from man to woman in secret and wanted to come out fresh.

Are you drawing from fan fiction?

I should have ™ FAegon when I created it here.  I knew it was too awesome not to abuse.

FAegon has been around as the nickname since ADWD was released in 2012.  Don't gloat about a name that you didn't create.  

And the fact remains that he is a boring spoiled brat and the people around him aren't all that interesting either including Jon Connington.

[CrypticWeirwood]

1 hour ago, Iron Mother said:

That's like saying Jon Connington was on the lam because he was transitioning from man to woman in secret and wanted to come out fresh.

Are you drawing from fan fiction?

I should have ™ FAegon when I created it here.  I knew it was too awesome not to abuse.

Don’t forget all the other Famous FFakers™! There are a dozen of them if there’s one, and there are far more than just one: there are indeed dozens. Here are just a few of them:

1. The fake FGriff™ the elder who is actually the lord you mentioned.
2. The fake FArstan™ Whitebeard™ who was really Ser Barristan Selmy pretending to not be him.
3. The fake FEsgred™ who flirts with Theon upon his return to Pyke but who is actually is sister.
4. The fake FArya™ who becomes Ramsey Snow’s wife but who is actually Gene Pool Jeyne Poole.
5. The fake FReek™ who is actually Ramsey Snow.
6. The fake FArry™ the orphan boy Arya was pretending to be.
7. The fake Ser FRobert™ Strong who is really Ser Gregor Clegane.
8. The fake FHound™ who is really Lem wearing Sandor Clegane’s helm.
9. The fake FMance™ whom King Stannis burnt.
10. The fake FAbel™ who is really King Mance.
11. The fake FEgg™ who is really King Aegon V.
12. The fake Ser FMaynard™ Plumm who is really Bloodraven.
13. The fake FFrog™ who is really Prince Quentyn Martell.
14. The fake FHugor™ Hill who is really Tyron “Lannister”.
15. The fake FJoffery™ "Baratheon", the fake FMyrcella™ "Baratheon", and the fake FTommen™ "Baratheon", who are not really Baratheons but merely Waters.
16. Most important of all we have the fake FJon™, our very own fake “bastard of Winterfell” who is actually a royal Targaryen and indeed the last surviving child of the ruling dynasty’s whilom crown prince.

That’s just a start; there are many others, plenty of whose secret identities remain unknown to us. Can you add a few more to the Great List of Famous FFakers™?

Is it any wonder that the show chose to downplay or omit many of those? This whole “secret identity” trope gets old, fast. As writer Steven Brust has himself explained, it’s a sign of bad writing.

Nonetheless those all need to be accorded the same F- honorific as is continuously bestowed upon FGriff™ the younger. We certainly cannot call Rhaegar and Lyanna’s son “Jon” any longer; we know that it is not his name! 

It is insulting not to call Ned’s nephew fake every time he’s mentioned, just like people do to Jon Connington’s young charge. Both are equally fake, so badmouthing one with name-calling but not doing so to the other is sheer hypocrisy.  

So let’s not be hypocrites. Remembering that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, it’s . . .

FakeJon^™ Forever!

 

[Iron Mother]

1 hour ago, illinifan said:

FAegon has been around as the nickname since ADWD was released in 2012.  Don't gloat about a name that you didn't create.  

And the fact remains that he is a boring spoiled brat and the people around him aren't all that interesting either including Jon Connington.

But ARE you drawing from fan fiction?  Your own imagination? 

I was here in 2012 you don't know where it came from.

[illinifan]

7 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

But ARE you drawing from fan fiction?  Your own imagination? 

I was here in 2012 you don't know where it came from.

Your acccount has 85 posts.  Unless you have multiple profiles I do not believe it.  And I heard it from multiple people on multiple sites.  If you are so arrogant to believe that you came up with something, then you can post a link to the first time someone on this site used the term FAegon and prove that it is your account.  

[Lord Varys]

10 hours ago, GravyFace said:

Varys could've sent fake poison wine. Nobody ever actually drank it, so we don't know if it was really poisoned. Varys could've made the wine merchant believe it was poisoned, and also told the little bird to tell Jorah, so that he had his bases covered. Dany wouldn't actually drink the wine with Jorah/little bird's help, and if she had by some chance then she wouldn't have died. All while keeping up appearances for King Robert.

That is actually the most likely scenario for the books where Jorah claims (in ASoS) that Varys never wanted to kill Dany, only that she be watched. And it is clear that either Illyrio or Varys (or both) sent a message to Jorah in Vaes Dothraki to warn him from their very own poisoning plot (or rather the poisoning plot of King Robert Varys had arranged for him, after providing him with information about Dany's pregnancy).

I've laid this out in detail elsewhere but it is actually pretty obvious the wine merchant was set up in the books by Varys and Illyrio.

1. He was part of a Pentoshi caravan and merchant captain who shows up once the thing goes awry is Pentoshi, too.

2. The poisoning took place too soon to be conducted by some ambitious would-be poisoner acting on his own. By that time only people instructed by Varys and Illyrio would want to kill Dany.

3. The 'poisoned wine' is in a closed cask which the merchant gives Dany as a gift to drink with Khal Drogo back at home. He has no intention to poison her in his shop. This suggests the following

3.1. The wine merchant didn't poison the wine himself but rather received a cask of wine which is supposed to contain poison according to his information.

3.2. The wine merchant planned to kill both Dany and Khal Drogo (and Viserys, had he still been alive) which was contrary to Varys and Illyrio's plans. They needed Drogo and his Dothraki. Working with actual poison would have been way too dangerous.

3.3. The 'poison' was most likely very costly and deadly. Either the Tears of Lys or something of that sort. The caravan had just arrived and would stay for weeks or months in Vaes Dothrak. But Dany and Drogo could not possibly die a suspicious death or else the merchant would be captured and killed. This also suggests he was given the cask rather than poisoning the wine himself because there is little chance such a man had access to potent potions on his own.

The point was to goad Drogo into agreeing to invade Westeros on the behalf of the Targaryens. At it worked perfectly. Using real poison would have been way too risky. But the modus operandi made sure that Dany would never actually drink from the wine because either Jorah would already know about the threat once they reached the shop or he would reach her in time to warn her before she could drink the wine with Drogo.

Illyrio most likely passed on letters to both Viserys and Jorah to be sure that things worked out this way.

Season 1 however has ruined all that by making it appear as if Varys actually wanted to kill Dany - which would have fit in nicely with an Aegon setting but makes now no sense at all in a Varys-Dany scenario. It is blatantly and obviously contradictory.

[Iron Mother]

i've been banned and maligned, posts and threads deleted.  I'm not a regular member here.  Someone with authority really doesn't like me. 

ARE YOU QUOTING FAN FICTION?  YOUR IMAGINATION?  I answered yours, sweetie, now answer mine.  Or no further exchange.  Say all this about Aegon would not make a good king.  There is no even hint of information for this anywhere.

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, Iron Mother said:

i've been banned and maligned, posts and threads deleted.  I'm not a regular member here.  Someone with authority really doesn't like me. 

ARE YOU QUOTING FAN FICTION?  YOUR IMAGINATION?  I answered yours, sweetie, now answer mine.  Or no further exchange.  Say all this about Aegon would not make a good king.  There is no even hint of information for this anywhere.

No darling.  I am pointing out that I find FAegon stupid and annoying in the books.  He reminds me of a telenovella where the long lost son of a dead character suddenly shows up.  Ohhh.  Look it is the hidden son of Rhaegar who suddenly appears.  He is the perfect prince.  Frankly, I doubt he is anymore than delicious Drogon food but I thought having to slog through his chapters in ADWD was a chore because no one in the party including FAegon, Jon Conn, etc. are interesting.  And Martin can introduce interesting minor characters if he wants to.. Manderley, Oberyn, the Queen of Thornes, Blackfish.  The fact that he makes a potential contender for the Iron Throne dull as dishwater says something about the story.

As for FAegon as a ruler, one thing that got me with him was the callous way he dismissed the fact that a little peasant baby was supposedly brutally murdered in his place.  He did not care and showed no remorse for the situation.  Yes, there have been effective but callous rulers like Tywin.  (Although I am not sure why Tywin Lannister is supposed to be someone we root for, Tywin would burn the realm for his own interests as much as Littlefinger would.  LF just does not have a lordy title to hide behind.)  

There is nothing to suggest that FAegon is an effective ruler.  He has lived in exile on a boat his entire life.  Because Jon Con and others have told him how to rule?  Really Joffrey was brought up as the Crown Prince in King's Landing where he was groomed to rule but that meant nothing.  Being brought up on a boat with a few disgraced retainers does not a king make.  FAegon is as unprepared to rule as Jon and Dany, but unlike Jon and Dany he lacks compassion and empathy toward the common man.  One thing that Jon and Dany have going for them is that they are "broken things" and have compassion toward other broken things.  FAegon through his callous disregard of the fact that a peasant child was brutally murdered so he could be saved has no compassion toward the downtrodden.  Could you imagine Jon or Dany reacting like FAegon did dismissively to that story?  

As for a personal note, if you do not want to get banned try not attacking others or taking credit for terms you did nor create.  People are allowed to criticize or dislike parts of the books you might like.  There are book fans like me who think Aegon's story is dumb, that it is soap opera-y, and that it takes away from the main characters.  Perhaps if Martin did not go down rabbit holes like FAegon the books would be finished by now.