Most unintelligent character in the series?

[dariopatke]

6 hours ago, khal drogon said:

We aren't even talking about that and it's an entirely different argument. This is not 'that' thread where you can hate on Dany. 

Well, I just said I agree with JQC. First 20 post were related to title, talking about Cersei, Daenerys, Jon or anyone who can speak and behave normally for 15 minutes is off topic. Here we should discuss about Jinglebell, Hodor, Mord and co. Jinglebell is my pick. 

And it was unintelligent move as much as it was cruel.

[khal drogon]

1 hour ago, dariopatke said:

Well, I ajust said I agree with JQC. First 20 post were related to title, talking about Cersei, Daenerys, Jon or anyone who can speak and behave normally for 15 minutes is off topic. Here we should discuss about Jinglebell, Hodor, Mord and co. Jinglebell is my pick. 

And it was unintelligent move as much as it was cruel.

No me and JQC were not even arguing about Daenerys. We are talking about the 'naivity' of the teen age slave masters of Astapor until you started about Dany. 

You could have any opinion of Dany and could say that in this thread and no one's stopping that. But your reply to my post is irrelevant because we were arguing about a different thing.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

On 10/08/2016 at 10:41 AM, SeanF said:

I'd exclude anyone who has a disability.

I'd then choose either Robert Baratheon or Victarion Greyjoy.  Or perhaps. Kraznys Mo Nakloz.

Robert unintelligent?? c'mooon Did not know that fat % had anything to do with IQ

From what i read in the books the guy has one of highest military IQ's in history, and as for AGOT despite his laziness and perfecting the look the other way notion, he shows intelligence trying to prevent starks and lannisters from fuc#€%@ the realm in peace time.

So no, he is pretty intelligent compared to others aside from maesters

[YOVMO]

On July 22, 2016 at 8:11 PM, FacelessDude said:

Victarion is a big dumb brute who is better at taking commands from his brothers, especially Balon. I couldn't help but feel ashamed for the maester Kerwin when he was raped by four of Victarion's sailors. I don't know why but I laughed when I came to the part where Victarion throws his corpse overboard. 

poor kerwin.

[YOVMO]

On July 24, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Foot_Of_The_King said:

Don't forget Owen the Oaf up on the wall. He had real faith that King Robert would come save them, war hammer in hand. 

How daft was owen? He thought king robert would save them and dreamt of the day when the king would come with his stag banners.......king robert was dead....but right after he had his dream Stannis showed up. So, Owen the Oaf or Owen the Omniscient. 

[dariopatke]

3 hours ago, khal drogon said:

No me and JQC were not even arguing about Daenerys. We are talking about the 'naivity' of the teen age slave masters of Astapor until you started about Dany. 

You could have any opinion of Dany and could say that in this thread and no one's stopping that. But your reply to my post is irrelevant because we were arguing about a different thing.

Ok, sorry. Btw some slavers are guilty and some are not. Same goes with children, but I would say that more children tend to be innocent. Even Westeros has Gregor Clegane and people like him who do not treat his people well. And there isnt huge difference between slavery and feudalism.

[Firefae]

Cersei and her children( except Myrcella) are not very bright. Especially Cersei and Joffrey made some horrible decisions.

And people in the Vale are overall not very smart. Sweetrobin is doesn't come over as very bright.( I know he's a kid, but still) And those Vale lords all fall for LF's tricks. 

And ofcourse Jingle, Lollys, Hodor, Mord etc. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 12/8/2016 at 6:33 AM, khal drogon said:

And where the book says that those above 12 year old had regents and they cannot make decisions on their own? We see a lot of people at that age making decisions Dany included. Also the assumption is if someone is given a family business then it means they know something about it. I have to differentiate business and ruling unlike my previous post. Ruling means you get pushed to it at any age so sometimes they need regents. But business means we have to know about it. 

Are you serious? Even Robb and Joff had regents. Your biased is so obvious and you keep moving the goalposts because you cannot actually found anything supported by the books or logic to support your wishful thinking that 12 years old is to blame for what their families have done. It's a bit boring but so funny.

[dariopatke]

On 12.8.2016. at 8:43 PM, She-Wolf of Winterfell said:

Cersei and her children( except Myrcella) are not very bright. Especially Cersei and Joffrey made some horrible decisions.

And people in the Vale are overall not very smart. Sweetrobin is doesn't come over as very bright.( I know he's a kid, but still) And those Vale lords all fall for LF's tricks. 

And ofcourse Jingle, Lollys, Hodor, Mord etc. 

Sweetrobin is smart enough to notice that Harry only waits for him to die. Pretty smart for a boy his age.

Sansa noticed Lyn Corbrays acting to be strange, she said he is too hhostile for double agent, unless he is playig LF to thinknhe is playing Lords Decladant.

Other Lords may be using LF, too. I wont say anything because we can only make bold predictions now. Oh, and they didnt back LF because they like him, they all have prospered greatly under his rule.

[Rondo]

Most unintelligent character in the series?

It's close between Brandon Stark and Jon Snow.  Brandon takes the honors but Jon is very close.  Sansa is not far behind. 

Brandon was a complete idiot for barging into the red keep and threatening the ruling family.

1. Brandon Stark - the most unintelligent character in the series
2. Jon Snow - second most unintelligent character in the series
3. Sansa Stark -third most unintelligent character in the series

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, Tour De Force said:

Brandon was a complete idiot for barging into the red keep and threatening the ruling family.

We don't know if this actually happens.

[khal drogon]

On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Are you serio us? Even Robb and Joff had regents. Your biased is so obvious and you keep moving the goalposts because you cannot actually found anything supported by the books or logic to support your wishful thinking that 12 years old is to blame for what their families have done. It's a bit boring but so funny.

Would you stop blaming Dany because she is just 14 years old? Robb and Joff had advisors not regents. And they have to be kings because they are pushed to that position and they need advisors because they are trying to rule a kingdom and wage a war. They wouldn't need any regent to take care of the family business. 

My logic is simple. Would you push your child into a business if you think he is not ready for it? Anyway that was for children we are talking about twelve year olds here. So far we have seen much younger people taking decisions and demonstrating clearer thought process. Twelve year old seems mature enough to consider them children(may be unrealistic in RL but GRRM do make kids doing things thry shouldn't ) and it is safe to assume those are definitely not children. 

And I'm not changing goalposts here. Anyway if you want to dispute my arguments do that with logic instead of crying wishful thinking. Give me a logical explanation why 12 years old of Astapor has to be considered naive gullible people who don't know about their own trade. Give me textual evidence supporting that. 

[khal drogon]

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 9:16 PM, dariopatke said:

Ok, sorry. Btw some slavers are guilty and some are not. Saime goes with children, but I would say that more children tend to be innocent. Even Westeros has Gregor Clegane and people like him who do not treat his people well. And there isnt huge difference between slavery and feudalism.

We aren't talking about guilt as we may agree that it is a grey area with those raised in that culture. But I disagree that 12 year old people in ASOIAF are naive and ignorant people(GRRM is notorious for letting kids grow too fast). A 12 year old is the threshold for adulthood in this series. I expect them to know well about what business they are doing. This argument that they are naive children only serves to demonise her and clearly unsupported by the text. 

I know I started it by saying 12 years old being naive is acceptable it was made to drive my point that doing mistakes in an younger age could be understandable. I accept that I didn't it through while making that point and in truth I didn't think about asoiaf age standards while typing that. I accept that's a mistake which led to this argument. Anyway I stand by my point - context matters while determining who is naive and who isn't. 

[dariopatke]

1 hour ago, khal drogon said:

We aren't talking about guilt as we may agree that it is a grey area with those raised in that culture. But I disagree that 12 year old people in ASOIAF are naive and ignorant people(GRRM is notorious for letting kids grow too fast). A 12 year old is the threshold for adulthood in this series. I expect them to know well about what business they are doing. This argument that they are naive children only serves to demonise her and clearly unsupported by the text. 

I know I started it by saying 12 years old being naive is acceptable it was made to drive my point that doing mistakes in an younger age could be understandable. I accept that I didn't it through while making that point and in truth I didn't think about asoiaf age standards while typing that. I accept that's a mistake which led to this argument. Anyway I stand by my point - context matters while determining who is naive and who isn't. 

Only extreme circumstamces make people to grow up faster, Look at Robb when he was 12, Ned and Robert in Eyrie, Brandon (brother of Ned) and Benjen and Lyanna, look at Rheagar and Tyrell siblings, Quentyn,...

Many of them are thaught certain things about ruling and just like slavers some of them treat their workers nicely and some of them not, I would rather be a slave of Yezzan (under condition I am not among his precious slaves) and Hizhdar (based on info we got) than a peasant under Aerys and Gregor. Not all of them are naive and actually good, but not all of them are bad and cruel and deserve death. Slavers who had bussiness with Unsullied should be punished, but their children and families... that would have to be somehow determined. Again, I am not claiming they are all innocent, of course they arent, but somehow she should determine which one is guilty and which one isnt.

I got over the line by trashing her unprovoked, but this could and should have been executed differently. "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." - I follow this rule, but one can always argue that those ten can kill hundreds... whatever you do, you will have blood of innocent on your hands. It is funny how sometimes we think we have a choise, but actually we dont. Sorry again for going off topic, I wont do it again

[dornishdragon]

If Mord does not have a mental illness that causes him to be retarded he is clearly one of the biggest candidates. 

Among the biggest houses we have Victarion Greyjoy, Robb Stark. Joffrey and Tommen Baratheon and Lysa Tully. Sansa Stark is also not the brightest of the minds but she is slowly learning the Game and also developing because she is only a girl. I do not consider Cersei to be that stupid despite she overestimates herself, Ned isn't unintelligent he simply puts honour above everthing which means he is unfitted to play the Game of Thrones. Dany is reasonably intelligent specially for a 13/15 year old girl.

 

 

[Oakhearts head]

Sansa was made to think she isn't very bright during her stay in Kings Landing, but she's actually pretty perceptive. Still a total pawn for Littlefinger as of yet, though. As irritating as some of her chapters in AGOT were, I find it hard to hold that against an 11 year old girl.

[khal drogon]

2 hours ago, dariopatke said:

Only extreme circumstamces make people to grow up faster, Look at Robb when he was 12, Ned and Robert in Eyrie, Brandon (brother of Ned) and Benjen and Lyanna, look at Rheagar and Tyrell siblings, Quentyn,...

Many of them are thaught certain things about ruling and just like slavers some of them treat their workers nicely and some of them not, I would rather be a slave of Yezzan (under condition I am not among his precious slaves) and Hizhdar (based on info we got) than a peasant under Aerys and Gregor. Not all of them are naive and actually good, but not all of them are bad and cruel and deserve death. Slavers who had bussiness with Unsullied should be punished, but their children and families... that would have to be somehow determined. Again, I am not claiming they are all innocent, of course they arent, but somehow she should determine which one is guilty and which one isnt.

I got over the line by trashing her unprovoked, but this could and should have been executed differently. "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." - I follow this rule, but one can always argue that those ten can kill hundreds... whatever you do, you will have blood of innocent on your hands. It is funny how sometimes we think we have a choise, but actually we dont. Sorry again for going off topic, I wont do it again

OK. This has evolved into something else. Anyway you prefer being a slave of Yezzan? Remember how Jorah is treated. Anyway being a slave is way worse. You will be alive but you have to act according to the whims of your master. Westerosi peasant at least have a choice. You could even rise in ranks or become a knight if you had the skillset. Your children are born free. Being a slave you may live if you had the skillset because you are valuable but hardly there is a chance to rise. Anyway you are not making a good case that there are benevolent slavers by comparing them with the worst people of Westeros. 

[dariopatke]

7 hours ago, khal drogon said:

OK. This has evolved into something else. Anyway you prefer being a slave of Yezzan? Remember how Jorah is treated. Anyway being a slave is way worse. You will be alive but you have to act according to the whims of your master. Westerosi peasant at least have a choice. You could even rise in ranks or become a knight if you had the skillset. Your children are born free. Being a slave you may live if you had the skillset because you are valuable but hardly there is a chance to rise. Anyway you are not making a good case that there are benevolent slavers by comparing them with the worst people of Westeros. 

Jorah had it coming, he wasn't cooperative. And I didn't I would prefer being slave of Yezzan than peasant under Ned, I listed some I think treat theor people worse than some slavers. Well yes, but unless you become a knight of someone guard it isn't pretty life either, they usually sleep on ground, eat cheap,... They can rarely compete with highborn in fighting because of cadtle training (there arent many people like Dunc), as a slave he cant do much either, but master can give him freedom when he dies. That is thebiggest problem with children in slavery, I agree there. 

[mzso]

On 2016. 07. 24. at 1:41 AM, Endymion I Targaryen said:

• He hit and humiliated Cersei publicly.

One of the best things he did.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

15 hours ago, khal drogon said:

Would you stop blaming Dany because she is just 14 years old?

Blame her for what?

15 hours ago, khal drogon said:

Robb and Joff had advisors not regents.

utter . Joff had two Regents , Ned by Robert's will and Cersei. Even  in TWOIAF we see how regency works. Aegon III had many regents until the age of 16 same with Jaehaerys I who had his mother as his regent until his 16th birthday.

15 hours ago, khal drogon said:

I disagree that 12 year old people in ASOIAF are naive and ignorant people(GRRM is notorious for letting kids grow too fast). A 12 year old is the threshold for adulthood in this series. I expect them to know well about what business they are doing. This argument that they are naive children only serves to demonise her and clearly unsupported by the text. 

Well that is your opinion which is proved to be utterly biased. You may have your opinion but GRRM himself has told us that when somone has a regent he cannot do whaetever he wants.

15 hours ago, khal drogon said:

I know I started it by saying 12 years old being naive is acceptable it was made to drive my point that doing mistakes in an younger age could be understandable. I accept that I didn't it through while making that point and in truth I didn't think about asoiaf age standards while typing that. I accept that's a mistake which led to this argument. Anyway I stand by my point - context matters while determining who is naive and who isn't. 

I just love how you defend someone who orders the death of children when on the same time you make excuse about her actions blaming her young age. You want so much to absolve her of her crimes that it’s just hilarious. So if 12 years old are to blame why 13 years old cannot be blamed and treated like an adult?