Sophie Turner was definitely robbed

[Ashes Of Westeros]

2 hours ago, Alayne's Shadow. said:

Anyway, I don't find Sophie Turner to be such a bad actress. Some of her scenes are quite good, at least for me, and esp in earlier seasons. The plot is confusing, though, and that detracts from Sansa's storyline and the performance. In season six, the only scene I particularly liked was the one that brought up one of my favorite elements from the books, when Sansa tells Jon: "No one can protect me. In life, no one can protect anyone." which really sounds as "There are no heroes. In life, the monsters win."

I agree Sophie Turner isn't a bad actress, she can portray emotions well, in contrary to some of her colleagues (I'm looking at you, Kit).

I think Sansa agreed to marry Ramsay because a) she was kidnapped, dragged, brought to the wedding ceremony gagged and chained b ) because D&D decided to add some "action" ih her storyline and give Ramsay more space. I don't see any other reasons. I think the whole Jayne Poole storyline could be skipped at all.

[Mladen]

Overall, I am not as convinced that young Miss Turner is as terrible actress as people generally think. As has been said, no one really knows what Sansa was supposed to do this season. It was one thing in the episode, another in "Inside the episode". That transition from courteous lady to manipulator and player, the one Martin has been doing over the course of three books so far, has been handled a bit sloppily. That is why Miss Turner looks in one moment as the lost lamb and in another like (God I hate that) "Boss-ass bitch". She had her moments, the good and the bad.

But to answer the question... No, I am not convinced Miss Turner should have been nominated. Then again, as was said, I think that Academy was overly gracious to GoT so if D&D can claim award in writing and Clarke, Dinklage, Williams and Harington noms in acting, I really see no reason why she can't. 

[Winter's Cold]

43 minutes ago, Risto said:

Overall, I am not as convinced that young Miss Turner is as terrible actress as people generally think. As has been said, no one really knows what Sansa was supposed to do this season. It was one thing in the episode, another in "Inside the episode". That transition from courteous lady to manipulator and player, the one Martin has been doing over the course of three books so far, has been handled a bit sloppily. That is why Miss Turner looks in one moment as the lost lamb and in another like (God I hate that) "Boss-ass bitch". She had her moments, the good and the bad.

But to answer the question... No, I am not convinced Miss Turner should have been nominated. Then again, as was said, I think that Academy was overly gracious to GoT so if D&D can claim award in writing and Clarke, Dinklage, Williams and Harington noms in acting, I really see no reason why she can't. 

Even if the writing is terrible, it still remains the job of the actor or actress to portray the character convincingly. Emilia Clarke got nominated because she's the star of the show. Dinklage, Williams and Harington got nominated because they're all better actors and actresses than Turner.

[Mladen]

2 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

Even if the writing is terrible, it still remains the job of the actor or actress to portray the character convincingly. Emilia Clarke got nominated because she's the star of the show. Dinklage, Williams and Harington got nominated because they're all better actors and actresses than Turner.

Well, it is all subjective... I don't see Harington or Clarke as any bit better actors than Turner, but then again, it is just me. I believe that the number of GoT cast members being nominated was absurd and with perhaps exception of Heady, I would have not nominated either one of them. 

I do agree that it is actor's job to play character convincingly. But the issue here is partially what said character is supposed to be. That is something that was completely lost across the board. It was bad writing with well, Turner's inexperience and yes, certain lack of talent. She is not Cate Blanchett. So few actors can save themselves from poor writing. 

[Winter's Cold]

Just now, Risto said:

Well, it is all subjective... I don't see Harington or Clarke as any bit better actors than Turner, but then again, it is just me. I believe that the number of GoT cast members being nominated was absurd and with perhaps exception of Heady, I would have not nominated either one of them. 

I do agree that it is actor's job to play character convincingly. But the issue here is partially what said character is supposed to be. That is something that was completely lost across the board. It was bad writing with well, Turner's inexperience and yes, certain lack of talent. She is not Cate Blanchett. So few actors can save themselves from poor writing. 

I didn't say that Clarke is a better actress than Turner. I said that she is the star of the most popular tv show currently and that ensures her nomination. She's been nominated three times thus far, the same amount as Lena Heady despite being nowhere as good of an actress. Thus, her nominations are probably more down to her character's popularity rather than her portrayal of that character. 

Harington is a more convincing and skilled actor than Turner. He is also very adept at battle scenes and his adroit sword and acting skills have been instrumental in the popularity of two of the greatest battles in the show: Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards. BoB alone, catapults him in front of Turner.

[Queen of Procrastination]

To clarify things a bit. I didn't say that she was  a bad actress in my comments I just didn't consider her performance emmy worthy, because only the best actors and actresses should be nominates for an emmy. Due  to this I also think that some of her collegues didn't deserve the nomination. She is not a bad actress and she had some good scenes this year (like the one where she confronts LF in Moles Town, but her performance wasn't outstandig. There are better actresses on GoT (Lena and Masie for example) and there are better actresses in other TV shows. She is still young and might have a long career. Who knows how good she will be in five or ten years?

I believe that in oder to become good enough to deserve an Emmy nomination she has to improve in some areas. 

Firstly she has to play a character in way that we understand her. Sure the writing did play a role in how people don't understand Sansa in Seasom 6, but her acting was also responsible to a certain extent. A better actress would have managed to save things a bit and we would have at least been able to understand Sansa to some extent. 

I also have to agree a bit with FoxMulder. Sophie Turner doesn't have very good understanding of her character. Yes, she jokes a lot and sometimes trolls fans, but even when she makes serious comments about Sansa,  I get the feeling that she doesn't understand Sansa very well. I said that I believe that Maise is a better actress than Sophie and I think that one of the reasons why she is better is that she seems to have a very good understanding of Arya. In her interviews she comes off as someone who understands Arya very well, probably even better than D&D 

Regarding Clarke and Harrington: I don't think that they are as bad as some people claim. Kit improved a lot over the years. Emila's problem is that they barely give her scenes in which she is allowed to portray a lot of emotions. She has to do the same speeches over and over again. On the show we mainly see the Queen who has to appear confident and regal to her followers, but barely the young unsecure girl. In the books there are quite many scenes were we saw the latter side of Daenerys and I believe they should have included more of these things, because Emilia did actually a good job when she played these kinds of scenes. 

Regarding comparisons of Sophie Turner with Clarke and Harrington: Like I said I don't believe that Kit and Emilia deserved the nominations. I think that they were better than Sophie in Seaso 6, because I was able to understand their characters and because they have portayed better understanding of their characters than Turner. However they both went to dramaschool for several years and Turner didn't 

All three actors suffer from the fact that they are on a show wit actors like Sean Bean, Charles Dance, Peter Dinklage, Lena Headey and Alfie Allen who are really better actors. IMO  we would probably judge  them differently if we compared them with the actots in some other Series where they are not as many oustanding actors as in GoT

[Dolorous Gabe]

I don't think anyone in the GoT cast deserved a nomination this year. Maybe Jonathan Pryce and/or Diana Rigg at a push. Rory McCann was good when he came back into it.

As a general rule, only experienced actors can do something with crappy material. I don't think Sophie is particularly good at acting but the writing of her character is so messy that it seems like there is little she could really do with it. What can you do when your character is so changeable from scene to scene with such confused motivations?

[Mladen]

13 hours ago, Lady of Whisperers said:

Firstly she has to play a character in way that we understand her. Sure the writing did play a role in how people don't understand Sansa in Seasom 6, but her acting was also responsible to a certain extent. A better actress would have managed to save things a bit and we would have at least been able to understand Sansa to some extent. 

I agree, but for her to do that, we have to have writing that allows us to understand the character. It is not only her performance, it is entire production that has no idea what her character is supposed to be about. After Episodes 9 and 10, it wasn't only her that was creating confusion, her voice was added to those of Cunningham, Harington, writers... This is "sept rape" all over again. Can someone claim that if Headey and Coster-Waldau were better actors, that would not have been rape? No. Sometimes it's about different elements. That is why we have the writer, director, editor. Actor is not alone in this. 

Yes, the good actors can "save" themselves from bad materials. But, we are not talking regular actors here, we are talking about seriously great actors like Streep, Blanchett etc... Most of the time, no matter how good actor is, they get buried by bad material. I don't think Miss Turner is the next Blanchett, but I do think that her performance, when properly modulated can be exceptional. The scenes with Theon, talk with Brienne about Arya, even the Vale charge scene... When she has some elements right, she can do it. It is just that writing for Sansa has been all over the place. 

I think that most GoT actors were cut some slacks in many areas. TV nowadays is full of exceptional actors in not-so-popular TV shows. Christine Baranski in "The Good Wife" was better than entire female ensemble of GoT put together. Is Rosario Dawson from Marvel Netflix universe any worse than any of the three nominated actresses from GoT. God, no. And if we even go further into "low-quality zone" and shows like, IDK, "Greys anatomy", you can find excellent acting. Game of Thrones actors are the most watchable, because well, GoT is the most popular thing right now on TV. And, interestingly, if we look at this fantasy phenomena on movies, we will never find such domination in acting. Harry Potter had Dame Maggie Smith, Alan Rickman, Helena Bonham Carter, Ralph Fiennes among others... LOTR/Hobbit had Viggo Mortensen, Cate Blanchett, late Sir Christopher Lee and only pulled nom for Ian McKellen for FOTR. So, GoT actors should really feel blessed. This truly never happened before.

As I said, these things are genuinely subjective, so discussing who is better for each of us is just discussing whom we like better and why we don't like someone else  It is truly pointless. 

[Newstar]

Quote

To clarify things a bit. I didn't say that [Sophie] was  a bad actress in my comments 

Fine, then I will. She's a bad actress.

Regardless of whether the GOT actors and actresses who received Emmy noms this year deserved them, Sophie Turner was not robbed of anything. She's a wooden actress with a terrible voice. She's not the worst on GOT by a long shot, of course, but that's not saying much: there's a lot of mediocre and even downright bad acting on the show.

As for Kit, I think he has improved somewhat, but I also think D&D have learned to play to his strengths: wry humour, surprisingly good comic timing, and a superlative aptitude for action scenes. (Didn't one of the fight guys working on GOT say a few years ago that one of the actors they'd worked with was better than most stuntmen at the swordfight choreography? I'm pretty sure he was talking about Kit.)

I dunno about Emilia; the only truly authentic emotion I've ever seen from her is in her scenes with Iain Glen. Emilia does project a lot of charisma, though, which granted isn't the same thing as acting ability--Hollywood's full of charismatic but mediocre actors--but which is a big boost to her Daenerys. With that said, Emilia also has a lot of natural sweetness and charm that's lost on a role like Daenerys; she could really shine in a different project playing a different sort of character.

You know who was robbed? Liam Cunningham. He wrung more emotion out of four simple sentences--"I loved that girl like she was my own / She was good, she was kind, and you killed her! (...) / The only way for what? / They all died anyway!"--than most of the actors on this show have managed for the whole series.

Even if he phoned it in the rest of the season, Peter Dinklage earned his nom with the dragons scene.

[John Doe]

Sophie Turner is one of the worst actresses on the show. She wasn't robbed of anything.

[John Doe]

On a side note, where the hell is Charles Dance's Emmy?

[arabian]

On 10/25/2016 at 1:05 PM, Newstar said:

You know who was robbed? Liam Cunningham. He wrung more emotion out of four simple sentences--"I loved that girl like she was my own / She was good, she was kind, and you killed her! (...) / The only way for what? / They all died anyway!"--than most of the actors on this show have managed for the whole series.

Even if he phoned it in the rest of the season, Peter Dinklage earned his nom with the dragons scene.

Yes, yes, yes to Cunningham. So, so brilliant. And also an exultant YES! to the DInklage/dragons comment. I was watching the behind-the-scenes bit on that scene and you see Dinklage acting against a piece of plastic there. I mean, when you watch the scene, the dragons look SO REAL, you can completely feel and understand why and how Tyrion is reacting that way, so openly, so vulnerably as he is. Tyrion is face to face with real-live dragons! It was just amazing and incredible... but damn! To watch Dinklage do parts of that scene against nothing, just a piece of nothing and realize this man was bringing that level of feeling and emotion to something that was solely in his imagination? Dear LORD! Damn straight he deserved that nomination. And we're not even talking about his scenes dealing with all the discussions pre/during/post his deal with the masters, and being made the Hand of the Queen. Dinklage is amazing.

Not mentioned by you, but I'll say it about Maisie Williams. I will argue till I'm red in the face that despite her less than stellar storyline (God, D&D could have done so much more with her Braavos arc if they actually cared just a tenth for Arya of what they do for Sansa), she deserved her nomination. What Williams did with Arya watching the play, viewers being able to see Arya remember Ned being beheaded, that terrible moment and Arya reliving it, just through her facial expression, the look in her eyes. All the work she did as blind Arya, the conversations with Lady Crane, and of course, that final scene with Jaquen and the delivery of the line owning her identity was all perfection.

And the above is all why she deserved the nomination and Sophie Turner did not. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, there were so many times throughout the season when viewers just did not have any clue why Sansa did or said what she did or said. We couldn't get a read on the actress because she wasn't able to convey the emotion through her eyes, through her facial expressions. She just didn't get the intent across to the viewer so the viewer was left all too often to come up with their own interpretation. The same could not be said for Maisie Williams' Arya, we always knew what Arya's state of mind was--even when she was "No one." She was able to show us the layers of "No one" lain over Arya, and we could always see when Arya peeked through, or when the Faceless Men's mentality was on the surface.

That is why the one actress got (and deserved) the nomination, and the other did not.

[Woman of War]

17 hours ago, arabian said:

Cunningham, Dinklage, Williams, Turner etc....... 

 

That is why the one actress got (and deserved) the nomination, and the other did not.

I agree with everything you wrote. Cunningham and Dinklage were extraordinary and it was Cunningham who got robbed. Though Turner has considerably improved and made me far more interested in  show Sansa as character than in book Sansa.

[arabian]

9 hours ago, Woman of War said:

Though Turner has considerably improved and made me far more interested in  show Sansa as character than in book Sansa.

I do agree with this. I am NOT a fan of Sansa in the books. Never have been, and at this stage in the game (haha), I don't see how I will be. And while I still have issues with some of Sansa's actions in season 06 (seriously, WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL JON ABOUT THE VALE ARMY? All of those men who died potentially some of them could have lived because Jon probably would have waited had he known another army was probably coming, argh!), still overall, I do like Sansa and I feel for her way more in the series than I ever have in the book. I actually care what happens to her in the series. My main issue comes mostly from D&D's blatant favoritism for the character (and actress) which I feel, actually, has hurt Sansa and been a detriment to other character's arcs and motivations at times. *sigh*

[Woman of War]

I absolutely agree with your issues in Sansa, Arabian.

It's not that I like the the fictional person Sansa, I do not really care about her. But I am by now hugely interested in her character's story, whether she is a girl I would like to be friends with in real life or rather not. The actress made me invested into Sansa's story, no matter if there will be a happy or an unhappy ending for the character.

Though she is not one of the characters I love like Tyrion, Brienne, Davos, Arya, even Jon and Daenerys. And Sansa is not one of those hugely fascinating characters played by fantastic actors like Cersei, Jaime, Ramsay, Roose, Varys, Oberyn, Olenna, Margaery, High Septon or Cat and Ned and first of all Charles Dance as Tywin.  All more Emmy worthy than Turner's Sansa. Turner would be a big fish in a small pond but she has to swim in a VERY big pond with VERY big fishes.

[JonSnow4President]

Anyone who looks at this show and picks Turner as the actor/actress who got slighted loses all credibility in judging acting in my eyes.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that view is so off what I see, I can't trust that person's critical vision. 

[John Doe]

39 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

Anyone who looks at this show and picks Turner as the actor/actress who got slighted loses all credibility in judging acting in my eyes.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that view is so off what I see, I can't trust that person's critical vision. 

True. The show had so many great actors, but Sophie isn't one of them. 

[principenoprometido]

15 hours ago, arabian said:

Estoy de acuerdo con esto. No soy un fan de Sansa en los libros. Nunca han sido, y en esta etapa en el juego (jaja), no veo cómo voy a ser. Y aunque todavía tengo problemas con algunas de las acciones de Sansa en la temporada 06 (en serio, ¿por qué no le cuentas JON SOBRE EL VALE ejército? Todos esos hombres que murieron potencialmente algunos de ellos podría haber vivido porque Jon probablemente habría podido esperar si hubiera conoce otro ejército fue probablemente viene, argh!), siendo en general, me gusta Sansa y que siento por ella de manera más en la serie de lo que nunca en el libro. De hecho, me importa lo que le pase en la serie. Mi principal problema proviene principalmente de flagrante favoritismo D & D's para el personaje (y actriz), que me siento, en realidad, ha perjudicado a Sansa y ha sido un perjuicio para los arcos y las motivaciones de otro carácter a veces. *suspiro*

because sansa not tell jon on the army of the valley? Because D & D wanted the arrival of the Knights was a "surprise" on screen and why they did so .., there is no other explanation.

[arabian]

Yeah, sorry, I don't hate the show and I think that D&D are doing a fabulous job for the most part so I'm not going down that road. Based on what we were supposed to get from Sansa, but Turner didn't convey enough or at all, it did make sense for the character. I just didn't like it. She's been burned so much she doesnt/can't trust anyone completely anymore. That makes sense and she is still naive enough to not get the big picture. Turner just isn't able to convey that.

[Mladen]

On 11/3/2016 at 7:54 PM, JonSnow4President said:

Anyone who looks at this show and picks Turner as the actor/actress who got slighted loses all credibility in judging acting in my eyes.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that view is so off what I see, I can't trust that person's critical vision. 

I am thoroughly unimpressed by the acting chops of GoT cast, but I tend not to (or at least try not to) call actors "bad" or "terrible" as many times it happens that these things varies from roles to roles. Sadly, Miss Turner has more than one of those projects but nonetheless, I like to think the actors are giving their best and sometimes it isn't enough. 

That said, once again, I personally would not have nominated either of the GoT ladies this year.

20 hours ago, arabian said:

Yeah, sorry, I don't hate the show and I think that D&D are doing a fabulous job for the most part so I'm not going down that road. Based on what we were supposed to get from Sansa, but Turner didn't convey enough or at all, it did make sense for the character. I just didn't like it. She's been burned so much she doesnt/can't trust anyone completely anymore. That makes sense and she is still naive enough to not get the big picture. Turner just isn't able to convey that.

No. The problem with "keeping the Vale as a secret" is just an excuse for the Gandalfian moment D&D, those fabulous writers, wanted to have. It made no sense on so many levels. And the issue was with the writing.

That said, I don't think that Turner isn't to be partially blamed but entire "Vale knight charge" is the writing issue.