Commodore Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 perhaps demography is destiny (skeptical of that), but in the near term, Dems need to win back white working class voters that went from Obama to Trump in Ohio/PA/Mich/Wisc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said: Chomsky once stated every President since W.W 2 have been a War Criminal. I highly doubt Trump going to break that streak. True, but he's gonna have to work real hard to surpass some of the better examples of presidenthood. I for one can't wait to see how he does it. It's gonna be glorious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Just now, Mr Fixit said: True, but he's gonna have to work real hard to surpass some of the better examples of presidenthood. I for one can't wait to see how he does it. It's gonna be glorious! Yeah and if think he was played for a fool he has the military and Nuclear weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, ummester said: Trump is not Bush. Bush is the closest modern president to a true fascist, riding in on 911 to remove as many freedoms, start as many wars and sell as many security contracts as he could. EXACTLY! But because he's part of the established and vetted elite lying in the same corporate bed with the Democrats, it's different! Cause he was, you know, relatively polite and from a distinguished family and had media on his side. So it's kinda OK. I mean people hated him, but he was still legitimate in the way Trump suddenly isn't. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 58 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: 54 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: 49 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: What are you trying to say with these posts? Are you trying to claim that the open racism and xenophobia being displayed in the last 24 hours is not at all directly connected with Trump's win and that those people don't feel validated in their attitudes and actions because of how Trump spoke and behaved while he was campaigning? No I'm trying to explain that merely voting for Hillary does not give you meaningful bragging rights in fighting against racism. It doesn't mean you voted for any "good" team. All the supposed anti racism from Hillary supporters basically amounts to "hey don't say rude stuff about minorities out in the open". "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Klu Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice;" Martin Luther King, Jr. 1963 - written in jail. Entire letter here to show I'm not taking it out of context. https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said: Yeah and if think he was played for a fool he has the military and Nuclear weapons. A sobering thought, true. You know what's even more sobering? Imagining Hillary and her cabal having the same at her disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadne23 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 58 minutes ago, Altherion said: ...However, as the Reason article I linked earlier points out, the idea that not all politically incorrect views are or even should be taboo was an unofficial (but quite definite) part of Trump's platform and his victory means that this idea has prevailed. Not all taboo views will go back into the dark closet of private interactions. Which ones will be hanging out on the corner with us again do you think? The best feel for this I've gotten is when a liberal guest on an alt-right show does a bad job answering a question like "Why are borders legitimate at all from a liberal point of view?" or "Do liberals think it would be racist to talk about having a white identity if white people were a racial minority?" Stuff like that, you think? What else? 58 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: See to me this still appears like you are framing this election in a very biblical way. Where there can only be two options one is pure evil from the depths of hell, the other is pure light directly from the loins of God almighty. Oh THIS is what you mean by primitive and Old Testament. Dualistic. Binary. For my part, I have not read a single post here saying this about Hillary Clinton. And I'm sure the dudes who ran against Hitler and Mussolini sucked in fairly significant ways as well - the primary one being, just like Hillary, an inability to defeat Hitler or Mussolini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mr Fixit said: EXACTLY! But because he's part of the established and vetted elite lying in the same corporate bed with the Democrats, it's different! Cause he was, you know, relatively polite and from a distinguished family and had media on his side. So it's kinda OK. I mean people hated him, but he was still legitimate in the way Trump suddenly isn't. Or something. It's actually pretty scary how much power the establishment/media has over American thought processes. Kids are rioting because apparently a buffoon is the Antichrist but when a true Orwellian nightmare was in power, people accepted it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Mexal said: He's ready to mend the nation. Just has to get through that unfairness to him first. Maybe he read the constitution and realized he missed a big part of the First Amendment when he was threatening the press and wanting to create immigration laws based on religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Mr Fixit said: A sobering thought, true. You know what's even more sobering? Imagining Hillary and her cabal having the same at her disposal. I had my concern with Hillary and Russia as well. At the same time I think she knows what limits there are and Crimea may of been a lesson. Trump discussion of these were in of personal relationships and just getting a deal. I know there is a lot on these aspect but there is view needed that I do not think Trump has demostrated knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 18 minutes ago, Mr Fixit said: EXACTLY! But because he's part of the established and vetted elite lying in the same corporate bed with the Democrats, it's different! Cause he was, you know, relatively polite and from a distinguished family and had media on his side. So it's kinda OK. I mean people hated him, but he was still legitimate in the way Trump suddenly isn't. Or something. He's vaguely human, which Trump somehow manages to defy. I put Trump in Cheney territory. More vaguely alien than human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Ariadne23 said: So, if I can ask a question that's going to make me sound pretty dense, what does the phrase "identity politics" really mean? Is it a derogatory term always? Or no? I've asked a few friends, read the Wiki and some other stuff, and I really don't get it. I understand that it has to do with group membership, and evidently specifically LBGT issues, but why are we using the word "identity" and not "social progressivism" or something like that? Identity politics is the art of grouping people based on their identity, or who they identify as, instead of treating all individuals equally. One of the most important parts of this identity is where it sits on a scale of privilege. This level of privilege will determine what you can or cannot talk about, into which areas you can or cannot go and which political party you should vote for or support. The range of identities available is almost limitless and a recent audit of tumblr genders found almost 50 genders beginning with the letter A (I lost count in B). Obviously any identity is as people identify rather than how they present, so if you identify as a man but were not born a man, then you would be considered part of lgbtqiapk+. Having said that, this is not always the case; although race may be considered a social construct, arguments inevitably follow someone presenting as white who identifies as a POC as was seen recently with Rachel Dolezal, Shaun King and in a censored article by Andrew Bolt. I understand this is changing with the hashtag #wrongskin becoming more widely used and accepted. Others have argued that identity politics was invented by grammar nerds who wanted new pronouns to police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariadne23 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, Mr Fixit said: EXACTLY! But because he's part of the established and vetted elite lying in the same corporate bed with the Democrats, it's different! Cause he was, you know, relatively polite and from a distinguished family and had media on his side. So it's kinda OK. I mean people hated him, but he was still legitimate in the way Trump suddenly isn't. Or something. I think it's the stuff this person wrote about in The Atlantic about personality trait distribution among various presidents: Quote George W. Bush comes out as especially high on extroversion and low on openness to experience—a highly enthusiastic and outgoing social actor who tends to be incurious and intellectually rigid. Barack Obama is relatively introverted, at least for a politician, and almost preternaturally low on neuroticism—emotionally calm and dispassionate, perhaps to a fault. Across his lifetime, Donald Trump has exhibited a trait profile that you would not expect of a U.S. president: sky-high extroversion combined with off-the-chart low agreeableness. *** Researchers rank Richard Nixon as the nation’s most disagreeable president. But he was sweetness and light compared with the man who once sent The New York Times’ Gail Collins a copy of her own column with her photo circled and the words “The Face of a Dog!” scrawled on it. Complaining in Never Enough about “some nasty shit” that Cher, the singer and actress, once said about him, Trump bragged: “I knocked the shit out of her” on Twitter, “and she never said a thing about me after that.” At campaign rallies, Trump has encouraged his supporters to rough up protesters. “Get ’em out of here!” he yells. “I’d like to punch him in the face.” From unsympathetic journalists to political rivals, Trump calls his opponents “disgusting” and writes them off as “losers.” By the standards of reality TV, Trump’s disagreeableness may not be so shocking. But political candidates who want people to vote for them rarely behave like this. There's a LOT more to that article. I'm sure a lot of you have already read it back when it came out, but it might be worth a reread now that's it's not curiosity and we know this is really what we're dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 44 minutes ago, ummester said: Trump is not Bush. Bush is the closest modern president to a true fascist, riding in on 911 to remove as many freedoms, start as many wars and sell as many security contracts as he could. You mean like the Patriot Act that Hillary Clinton voted to extend twice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 26 minutes ago, Ariadne23 said: Which ones will be hanging out on the corner with us again do you think? The best feel for this I've gotten is when a liberal guest on an alt-right show does a bad job answering a question like "Why are borders legitimate at all from a liberal point of view?" or "Do liberals think it would be racist to talk about having a white identity if white people were a racial minority?" Stuff like that, you think? What else? I am not sure. It depends to some extent on Trump himself: it is difficult to make speech taboo when it is being propagated from the very top. My guesses are that he will continue to be very explicit about radical Islam and also possibly about immigration. He may also be at least verbally tougher on Black Lives Matter than the current administration has been. It is also possible that he will eliminate government drivers of political correctness. For example, if I remember correctly, the sexual assault kangaroo courts that have recently sprouted throughout academia and the dialogue surrounding them are driven by in part by some government agency (OCR?) under the purview of the executive branch. If he tells the agency to back off or to prohibit the kangaroo courts or something of the sort, universities will cut costs and the activity and dialogue around this will diminish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 19 minutes ago, Ariadne23 said: I think it's the stuff this person wrote about in The Atlantic about personality trait distribution among various presidents: There's a LOT more to that article. I'm sure a lot of you have already read it back when it came out, but it might be worth a reread now that's it's not curiosity and we know this is really what we're dealing with. Reads as if the author was looking for things to support preexisting beliefs rather than an actual scientific analysis. Some good history in it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 A song for these times by a man who today has now left us for all time. RIP Leonard Cohen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, LongRider said: A song for these times by a man who today has now left us for all time. RIP Leonard Cohen RIP That song was in my favorite movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordos Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Could someone in this forum do me a small favor? I'm not following the political news in the US anymore neither online nor on TV. If Drumpf makes any legal threats against Clinton or Obama as he did during the second debate before he is sworn in on January 20th, let me know in a PM. Why? I'm curious to see their reactions. Assert confidence in the legal system, flee the US or dismiss the threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbigski Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: It is a curious world we live in when Netanyahu celebrates Trump's victory at the same time as anti-Semites feel like they finally have licence put up swastikas and proclaim heil Hitler because the world is finally theirs again. I hope it's the neo-Nazis who will get a big shock. Trump has Jewish grandkids. All of this Nazi talk is just nonsense from all in Pravda type media sources. If we set the over under at crematoriums built in the US over the next four years at .5 who is seriously willing to bet the over? 3 hours ago, Mr Fixit said: The entire modern Republican party going back to Nixon and Reagan was formed around the infamous and racist so-called Southern strategy. That racist strategy that gave Nixon every state west, north or south of Massachusetts in 72? That sort of analysis might fly on dailykos or huffpo but stop beclowning yourself here. 3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: What are professional protesters exactly? ANSWER, Soros founded groups, BLM, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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