Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

[Pink Fat Rast]

46 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Why should Asbaek have some idea about what Book Euron is like? He's under no obligation to read the books, and nor should he be. That's not his job. His job is to play the version of the character in the scripts, and that character is often quite different from the book version of that character. 

If he doesn't know what the book version is like, he maybe shouldn't be wisecracking about how "he agrees the book version is silly".

Aside from that however, I kinda did emphasize that it's only a problem if that's actually what D&D said (i.e. if the hadn't misinterpreted their comments) - because they're often accused of changing things out of "disrespect for the books" and this would then confirm said accusations.

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As for D&D leaving out the eyepatch because they thought it would look dumb? That's part of it, for sure. A pirate character with an eyepatch is cliched.

Two things, in response to just this particular sentiment:
1) The notion that some things in the books are dumb and deserved to be scoffed at by D&D, is outside of this thread's paradigm
2) Neither the books, nor the show, have particularly gone out of their way to avoid cliches - sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. A "pirate with an eyepatch" wouldn't have stood out as the first in history.

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However, I think there's more to the explanation. D&D seem to have made a separate decision to take Euron's dark magic away, and once that happened, the eye, the blood sacrifices, etc. went with it.

As I said, if that was actually their reason, and not "silly lol" then there was a miscommunication with Asbaek, the accusations would turn out to be false (again), and everyone's exonerated

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Book Euron's storyline has a lot of torture, rape and mutilation of women in it, and D&D seem to have finally learned their lesson when it comes to female torture porn.

What "lesson", that they're gonna get low ratings if they do it to Sansa?

The last two episodes of S5 all got usually high ratings, those were the ones with Cersei's walk and the burning.

Then S6 still had a rather violent stabbing of Leaf, and a violent off-screen death of Lady Crane, and Arya getting stabbed horrifically (though it seems less so in retrospect since it was apparently just a scratch to her).


So, they could've had all the violent Euron stuff and all the violent Victarion stuff for that matter, and sanitized it by cutting away - though they wouldn't really have had to as they still would've gotten 9/10 at worst.

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When you take Euron's dark magic and torture porn away, you don't have much left except a standard GOT villainous, not overly threatening thug, which is pretty much what TV Euron is. I'm also guessing that they don't want any potential rivals to TV Cersei's status as the last "human" Big Bad.

Euron's dark magic (and dark character traits) are supposed to be the number 1 threat against Daenerys, as is clear from that Red Priest's vision, and the dragonbinder (((((which, if you've noticed, people here don't like all that much that they've scrapped that too))))) etc.

So what you're really saying is, when you take eveything away that makes Euron the significant, ominous character that he is in the books, you don't have much left except the completely changed character in the show who's none of those things

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I always thought Book Euron was a ridiculous character--whoever called him an anime villain was right on the money--but TV Euron is such a nothing character that I'd rather they had left him out altogether. For all his talk of killing and such, he doesn't come across as dangerous or threatening in the slightest. I'm not scared of him. Why should Theon and Yara be?

In the show he comes off as kind of an evil Daario or twisted swashbuckler type - if he starts doing really terrible things and becomes a serious threat in S7, it'll be a bit of a shock to the audiences because they weren't expecting it from this carefree "asshole Erroll Flynn" who seems more like a comical nuisance right now.

Or, well, he did in the election debate - as I said, they made him a lot scarier in that bridge scene. So another inconsistency I suppose.

[Tifani]

1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Why should Asbaek have some idea about what Book Euron is like? He's under no obligation to read the books, and nor should he be. That's not his job. His job is to play the version of the character in the scripts, and that character is often quite different from the book version of that character. If he gets dumb questions from book fans about why Euron doesn't have an eyepatch, I don't blame him for giving flippant answers.

As for D&D leaving out the eyepatch because they thought it would look dumb? That's part of it, for sure. A pirate character with an eyepatch is cliched. However, I think there's more to the explanation. D&D seem to have made a separate decision to take Euron's dark magic away, and once that happened, the eye, the blood sacrifices, etc. went with it. Book Euron's storyline has a lot of torture, rape and mutilation of women in it, and D&D seem to have finally learned their lesson when it comes to female torture porn. When you take Euron's dark magic and torture porn away, you don't have much left except a standard GOT villainous, not overly threatening thug, which is pretty much what TV Euron is. I'm also guessing that they don't want any potential rivals to TV Cersei's status as the last human Big Bad. Gotta get Lena her Emmy nom, LOL.

I always thought Book Euron was a ridiculous character--whoever called him an anime villain was right on the money--but TV Euron is such a nothing character that I'd rather they had left him out altogether. For all his talk of killing and such, he doesn't come across as dangerous or threatening in the slightest. I'm not scared of him. Why should Theon and Yara be?

It's also pretty damn obvious that D&D gave the night's king whatever crazy dragon shit that euron will do so in the books. 

Having the NK make a white walker dragon is a pretty quick and cinematic simplification of getting to the same point of Book Euron's dragon plot (altho I'm not sure if we'll ever see a wight dragon in the books)

[Pink Fat Rast]

4 minutes ago, Tifani said:

Having the NK make a white walker dragon is a pretty quick and cinematic simplification of getting to the same point of Book Euron's dragon plot (altho I'm not sure if we'll ever see a wight dragon in the books)

I've no idea if that's true or not, but if it is then it's a lot more than a "simplification" - for instance, if Euron seizes control over some of the dragons (if not all), he might get his own ideas about how to go about the WW invasion; might make for an interesting 3(+) way conflict.

NK with ice dragon is just gonna be humans vs. monsters, totally different - though that doesn't seem to be where S7 is going, considering Cersei might become a 3rd party

[Rhodan]

The inconsistency between Euron´s acting on the bridge and on Kingsmoot is probably simply becouse of different writers. Dave Hill who wrote scene of Balon´s death is drawing from the books even more than "Cogman of old". You can notice that Yara is much morel like book´s Asha there as well.   

 

 

 

[Cas Stark]

Euron is the like the sand snakes....bad in both mediums.  Although show Euron is VERY under whelming as any kind of a villain or even an interesting badass.  I had expected them to recast him.

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Euron is the like the sand snakes....bad in both mediums.  Although show Euron is VERY under whelming as any kind of a villain or even an interesting badass.  I had expected them to recast him.

Build me a thousand ships!!!

[TheCasualObserver]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Euron is the like the sand snakes....bad in both mediums.  Although show Euron is VERY under whelming as any kind of a villain or even an interesting badass.  I had expected them to recast him.

I think building an entirely new navy in a pre-industrial society in a matter of weeks is pretty badass. Impossible and illogical sure, but bad ass. The writers are clearly missing a trick here - Euron shouldn't be trying to conquer Westeros, he should be setting up a trading empire so that he can buy and sell everyone's sorry ass.   

[TheCasualObserver]

20 hours ago, Tifani said:

It's also pretty damn obvious that D&D gave the night's king whatever crazy dragon shit that euron will do so in the books. 

Having the NK make a white walker dragon is a pretty quick and cinematic simplification of getting to the same point of Book Euron's dragon plot (altho I'm not sure if we'll ever see a wight dragon in the books)

Then why not cut him entirely? If he's there to be Joffrey 3.0 then I think the show could probably survive without him. A complaint I have with the show is that these villains (Ramsay and LF in particular) don't feel real to me at all. We've already got the pure evil white walkers, why do we need some other improbable asshole hanging around? Let's bring the politics back! 

[Tifani]

1 hour ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Then why not cut him entirely? If he's there to be Joffrey 3.0 then I think the show could probably survive without him. A complaint I have with the show is that these villains (Ramsay and LF in particular) don't feel real to me at all. We've already got the pure evil white walkers, why do we need some other improbable asshole hanging around? Let's bring the politics back! 

from the season 7 leaks, it doesn't seem like he's going to be a joffrey 3.0. he seems much more like an evil daario. except unlike daario he isn't getting laid by an queen.

honestly i think his main purpose is just to be an ally to cersei and be an antagonist for dany and theon/yara. i'm 99% sure that theon will kill him in season 8 and its going to marked as the ultimate moment in which theon has finally shook off reek from himself completely. 

[Pink Fat Rast]

8 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

We've already got the pure evil white walkers

So far they seem nowhere as evil as a lot of the humans, incl. those 2-3 ones - maybe comparable to Tywin, though from another angle not even as bad as him.

Kinda the whole idea of this series I thought?

Anyway, Cersei's not just gonna be "the new tormentor" she's gonna be part of the mytharc endgame; Euron probably as well.

[Gaz0680]

6 hours ago, Tifani said:

from the season 7 leaks, it doesn't seem like he's going to be a joffrey 3.0. he seems much more like an evil daario. except unlike daario he isn't getting laid by an queen.

honestly i think his main purpose is just to be an ally to cersei and be an antagonist for dany and theon/yara. i'm 99% sure that theon will kill him in season 8 and its going to marked as the ultimate moment in which theon has finally shook off reek from himself completely. 

Yes and in killing Euron Im certain Theon will either be avenging Yara or saving her. I suspect the former, but would prefer the latter.

After everything he has done, Theon should never be in a position of power again. Id prefer he atone, lose the reek persona and go back to be a stronger Theon Greyjoy, but one who will support and serve loyally (like he did with the starks for years, regardless of the circumstances).

[Dragonsbone]

On 13.4.2017 at 9:09 PM, Tifani said:

It's also pretty damn obvious that D&D gave the night's king whatever crazy dragon shit that euron will do so in the books. 

Having the NK make a white walker dragon is a pretty quick and cinematic simplification of getting to the same point of Book Euron's dragon plot (altho I'm not sure if we'll ever see a wight dragon in the books)

How do you know that Book-Euron is gonna do all that stuff you mention??? How do you know that Euron will gain control over the dragons? How do you know how the dragonbinder plot will play out? Who is to tell, that the dragonbinder plot will not fire back at him? Well I can tell you who knows it for certain: GRRM and D&D.

This seems to be the problem at any discussion right now: people are mad because certain plots that they believed to be true for years are not playing out in the show. Well it could be that those theories are wrong. And since they don't have the books to compare, they automatically assume that the show diverges drastically. But the simple answer is probably that those theorys are wrong. There are hundreds of theories regarding to Euron: he is an Agent of the great other, he is an agent of bloodraven, bloodraven is an agent of the others therefore Euron is indirectly working for the others, he will cause the wall to fall, he is the Knight King in the books and so on and so on. These are theories, not facts from the books. If the show does not go that way, it does not mean they are diverging. The most reasonable answer is, that those theories are dead wrong. 

As for Aesbek, I don't like him either. I don't think that he fits the role of Euron by his looks. But D&D obviously had different opinions and wanted him to look more like the rest of his Greyjoy family. As for his eyepatch: Thank god they did not went that way. Book-Euron is the biggest cliche out of all characters from ASOIAF. An evil pirate with an eye patch. 

As for Euron in the show: we just saw him in two scenes where he acted completely different. The first scene with Balon was his true nature. Evil and psycho. The second one was his fals nature, where he played infront of the Ironborn just like they expect a King. He acted to gain their trust. I strongly believe that Euron is season seven is gonna show his true nature and it is gonna be that one of the first scene. And I think that is how D&D view Euron: As a genious character who plays with people, maybe never revealing truly his real nature. I come to think of him like the Joker in the dark knight. 

I guess we will have to wait and see 

[Pink Fat Rast]

3 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

As for Aesbek, I don't like him either. I don't think that he fits the role of Euron by his looks. But D&D obviously had different opinions and wanted him to look more like the rest of his Greyjoy family. As for his eyepatch: Thank god they did not went that way. Book-Euron is the biggest cliche out of all characters from ASOIAF. An evil pirate with an eye patch. 

Yeah but does he go ARRRRRRRR?

I'd say the blonde white girl taming the exotic barbarian is a much better contender for the "biggest cliche".

Euron's maybe somewhat comparable to Ian McShane's Blackbeard, but that's hardly a typical pirate (unlike Barbossa, who is).

3 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

As for Euron in the show: we just saw him in two scenes where he acted completely different. The first scene with Balon was his true nature. Evil and psycho. The second one was his fals nature, where he played infront of the Ironborn just like they expect a King. He acted to gain their trust. I strongly believe that Euron is season seven is gonna show his true nature and it is gonna be that one of the first scene. And I think that is how D&D view Euron: As a genious character who plays with people, maybe never revealing truly his real nature. I come to think of him like the Joker in the dark knight. 

I guess we will have to wait and see 

Hopefully, that would be cool - however I somehow think if that were the case, his "true nature" would've at least somewhat shown when he woke up from the drowning.

Not by necessity though, so jury's out

[Tifani]

11 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

How do you know that Book-Euron is gonna do all that stuff you mention??? How do you know that Euron will gain control over the dragons? How do you know how the dragonbinder plot will play out? Who is to tell, that the dragonbinder plot will not fire back at him? Well I can tell you who knows it for certain: GRRM and D&D.

This seems to be the problem at any discussion right now: people are mad because certain plots that they believed to be true for years are not playing out in the show. Well it could be that those theories are wrong. And since they don't have the books to compare, they automatically assume that the show diverges drastically. But the simple answer is probably that those theorys are wrong. There are hundreds of theories regarding to Euron: he is an Agent of the great other, he is an agent of bloodraven, bloodraven is an agent of the others therefore Euron is indirectly working for the others, he will cause the wall to fall, he is the Knight King in the books and so on and so on. These are theories, not facts from the books. If the show does not go that way, it does not mean they are diverging. The most reasonable answer is, that those theories are dead wrong. 

As for Aesbek, I don't like him either. I don't think that he fits the role of Euron by his looks. But D&D obviously had different opinions and wanted him to look more like the rest of his Greyjoy family. As for his eyepatch: Thank god they did not went that way. Book-Euron is the biggest cliche out of all characters from ASOIAF. An evil pirate with an eye patch. 

As for Euron in the show: we just saw him in two scenes where he acted completely different. The first scene with Balon was his true nature. Evil and psycho. The second one was his fals nature, where he played infront of the Ironborn just like they expect a King. He acted to gain their trust. I strongly believe that Euron is season seven is gonna show his true nature and it is gonna be that one of the first scene. And I think that is how D&D view Euron: As a genious character who plays with people, maybe never revealing truly his real nature. I come to think of him like the Joker in the dark knight. 

I guess we will have to wait and see 

your post is very tl;dr but i never claimed to know anything. i'm just guess-timating because the NK isn't an actual character in the books. and euron just seems to be the most likely to do crazy shit in regards to the dragons from what i read so far.

i dont care that the D's are simplifying and giving book euron's plot to the NK. the NK is a much more established villain and him riding a wight dragon will look much better onscreen. 

[TheCasualObserver]

12 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

How do you know that Book-Euron is gonna do all that stuff you mention??? How do you know that Euron will gain control over the dragons? How do you know how the dragonbinder plot will play out? Who is to tell, that the dragonbinder plot will not fire back at him? Well I can tell you who knows it for certain: GRRM and D&D.

This seems to be the problem at any discussion right now: people are mad because certain plots that they believed to be true for years are not playing out in the show. Well it could be that those theories are wrong. And since they don't have the books to compare, they automatically assume that the show diverges drastically. But the simple answer is probably that those theorys are wrong. There are hundreds of theories regarding to Euron: he is an Agent of the great other, he is an agent of bloodraven, bloodraven is an agent of the others therefore Euron is indirectly working for the others, he will cause the wall to fall, he is the Knight King in the books and so on and so on. These are theories, not facts from the books. If the show does not go that way, it does not mean they are diverging. The most reasonable answer is, that those theories are dead wrong. 

As for Aesbek, I don't like him either. I don't think that he fits the role of Euron by his looks. But D&D obviously had different opinions and wanted him to look more like the rest of his Greyjoy family. As for his eyepatch: Thank god they did not went that way. Book-Euron is the biggest cliche out of all characters from ASOIAF. An evil pirate with an eye patch. 

As for Euron in the show: we just saw him in two scenes where he acted completely different. The first scene with Balon was his true nature. Evil and psycho. The second one was his fals nature, where he played infront of the Ironborn just like they expect a King. He acted to gain their trust. I strongly believe that Euron is season seven is gonna show his true nature and it is gonna be that one of the first scene. And I think that is how D&D view Euron: As a genious character who plays with people, maybe never revealing truly his real nature. I come to think of him like the Joker in the dark knight. 

I guess we will have to wait and see 

This would be a little easier to swallow if he hadn't confessed to murdering his brother immediately. That's not concealing anything about himself or his motives. He may have hidden his magical powers (if he has them) or kept some psycho aspects of himself to himself, but he just up and announced that he killed his brother and plans to do the same to his niece and nephew. In an environment where everybody is totally fine with that, what other "true nature" he would need to hide from these people anyway?

It has to be a case of occum's razor - Show Euron is a villain of the week who can be used to take pot shots at Donald Trump. So nothing about he characterization or appearance on screen will matter.   

[Pink Fat Rast]

6 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

In an environment where everybody is totally fine with that, what other "true nature" he would need to hide from these people anyway?

It has to be a case of occum's razor - Show Euron is a villain of the week who can be used to take pot shots at Donald Trump. So nothing about he characterization or appearance on screen will matter.   

I'm still going with the "inconsistent writing" explanation here, but it's totally plausible that they'd feel uneasy about electing a guy who says "I am the Drowned God" - all depends on their culture and mindset, some other group somewhere would recoil at kinslaying but have no problem with electing a God-Emperor; 
these ones apparently are fine with him killing his weak brother but would start feeling nervous if he blasphemed against the religion like that.

Or, I don't know if that's really the case in the show, I'm just saying that's how it would make sense

[Dragonsbone]

4 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

I'm still going with the "inconsistent writing" explanation here, but it's totally plausible that they'd feel uneasy about electing a guy who says "I am the Drowned God" - all depends on their culture and mindset, some other group somewhere would recoil at kinslaying but have no problem with electing a God-Emperor; 
these ones apparently are fine with him killing his weak brother but would start feeling nervous if he blasphemed against the religion like that.

Or, I don't know if that's really the case in the show, I'm just saying that's how it would make sense

I agree completely with this.

[StepStark]

On 4/13/2017 at 2:40 PM, Newstar said:

Denial is a powerful thing.

Sorry to say, but to me the biggest denial is this:

On 4/13/2017 at 2:40 PM, Newstar said:

I think that if show spoilers were allowed on the book forum, fans would realize that the vast majority of their theories have been ruled out by the show.

The show didn't rule out any theory about the books, no matter how ridiculous or unrealistic those theories can be. The show is just a fan fiction at this point and a very bad one at that. And because of that, the show simply can't be taken seriously as canon in any way. Just because something happens in the show, that absolutely doesn't mean that it's going to happen in the books too. Actually it's almost always the opposite: what happened in the show in no way can happen in the books, and that's based on five books that are published so far, and not on theories some fans have.

[Pink Fat Rast]

Well, none of you know for sure ey

[Dragonsbone]

1 hour ago, StepStark said:

Sorry to say, but to me the biggest denial is this:

The show didn't rule out any theory about the books, no matter how ridiculous or unrealistic those theories can be. The show is just a fan fiction at this point and a very bad one at that. And because of that, the show simply can't be taken seriously as canon in any way. Just because something happens in the show, that absolutely doesn't mean that it's going to happen in the books too. Actually it's almost always the opposite: what happened in the show in no way can happen in the books, and that's based on five books that are published so far, and not on theories some fans have.

Thank you Mr. Martin for clarifying that. We the mortals have fight about this for years because the showrunners have said differently. But now we know . (jk).