Leaks discussion thread for season 7 vol. 2.

[Le Cygne]

5 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

As for Sansa, fear not, in the books I think she is destined for more happiness among the trials and turbulence she is yet to endure.

Show, too, I think.  

[Evarei]

1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Even on the show he's aged up, so he should be smarter and more skillful in this. He's good at fighting, leading men to battle. He inspires them like he did at Hardhome, Battle of the Wall or BOTB but not really a leader like millitary tactician. Ramsay owend him totally. Weiss and Benioff said that Jon is good soldier basically, but not a leader It's on inside of episode 9..

Then they invented their own Jon Snow. He has nothing in common with book Jon. It's more frustrating given that they try to shove Dany as a good ruler/Sansa as a good politician down everyone's throats, yet it's not reflected in the show at all. Daenerys is completely unfit to rule, she made a mess out of Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen. Tyrion had to go beside himself to try to salvage the situation and it all got swept under the rug with a single moment of one ship being burned. But because it's Daenerys Snowflake her mistakes don't have any lasting consequences to her or anyone who's not a nameless background character. As for Sansa, she failed as a politician/diplomat time and again in season 6 yet they keep saying how great she's at it. Who are they trying to fool? She didn't even pull off any shemes, all she did was beg for help (anyone can do that) that had already been offered to her and was hailed as a smart player. This was so jarring.

Then they took Jon and stripped him off all his values, leaving him with an ability to swing a sword. I understand not making characters flawless. But they're going to the other extreme with Jon.

[Bear Claw]

41 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Jon and Sansa together... oh boy.

Anyone ever thought about this before seeing them interact on season 6? I remember watching episode 10 with my mother and she literally asked me if something was going on between them, like love interest. I laughed back then, but now there are so many people shipping them, writting theories about them, it's crazy.

No one can convince me that the show wasn't pairing Jon and Sansa off last year. Also, the show did it. It wasn't coming from me! I really thought that they were going to pair Sansa off with Small Jon Umber after they announced that casting. I think it (Jonsa) still is going to go somewhere, or at least I will be shocked if it doesn't. I think it should be Arya though since the outline points that way. Dany and Jon make perfect sense though. Every pairing has its flaws really. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Just now, Le Cygne said:

Show, too, I think.  

Yeah, she needs a loyal Beast to protect her from all the creeps.

[lojzelote]

Just now, A Ghost of Someone said:

That is funny.

Sansa, like her mother viewed Jon as her father's bastard by an unknown woman. Half brother and not very close at all. Not hostile but she, unlike her other sibblings, did not have a close relationship with Jon at all. However, it is not going anywhere and it was merely a speculation as to what might happen based on the ending of Season 5. We all now know for sure that they are first cousins.

As for Sansa, in the books I think she is destined for more happiness among the trials and turbulence she is yet to endure.

No, that's normal.

Many brothers and sisters in Westeros aren't close, since they spend very little time together; they receive different education, they have different hobbies, and boys tend to be fostered elsewhere.

That doesn't change that the Westerosi view brother/sister unions as abomination against gods, and I'm pretty sure that half-brother/sister couples are included in that. It's one of their greatest taboo.

Jon and Sansa met each other every day in WF, they ate at the same table, they played together as little children, Sansa gave Jon advice how to behave to girls, they regarded the same man as their father, they both called Robb, Arya, Bran, and Rickon their brothers and sister.

Sansa and Jon probably spend together about the same amount of time as she and Robb. Jon and Sansa probably spent together more time than your average noble brother and sister.

They didn't have much in common, but they always saw each other as brother and sister.

[A Ghost of Someone]

 

Just now, lojzelote said:

No, that's normal.

Many brothers and sisters in Westeros aren't close, since they spend very little time together; they receive different education, they have different hobbies, and boys tend to be fostered elsewhere.

That doesn't change that the Westerosi view brother/sister unions as abomination against gods, and I'm pretty sure that half-brother/sister couples are included in that. It's one of their greatest taboo.

Jon and Sansa met each other every day in WF, they ate at the same table, they played together as little children, Sansa gave Jon advice how to behave to girls, they regarded the same man as their father, they both called Robb, Arya, Bran, and Rickon their brothers and sister.

Sansa and Jon probably spend together about the same amount of time as she and Robb. Jon and Sansa probably spent together more time than your average noble brother and sister.

They didn't have much in common, but they always saw each other as brother and sister.

We both now know that the show is not going there. Jon has a date with his Aunt and Sansa may have a date in the form of a Beast named Sandor. That is if Briene stops cock - blocking him by intimidation (the most laughable of spoilers). The show is what it is. they may tease it like other things and then nothing happens of it. Example, Talisa as a spy for the Lannisters, was really nothing but well, Talisa. Shae looked like a spy that ratted out Ros to LF who then gave her to Joff but nothing else came of it. However, the hints are there from the first two seasons and all over the books, Sandor and Sansa, there is something there. What may or may not become of it, who knows?

[Lord Friendzone]

Just now, A Ghost of Someone said:

 

We both now know that the show is not going there. Jon has a date with his Aunt and Sansa may have a date in the form of a Beast named Sandor. That is if Briene stops cock - blocking him by intimidation (the most laughable of spoilers). The show is what it is. they may tease it like other things and then nothing happens of it. Example, Talisa as a spy for the Lannisters, was really nothing but well, Talisa. Shae looked like a spy that ratted out Ros to LF who then gave her to Joff but nothing else came of it. However, the hints are there from the first two seasons and all over the books, Sandor and Sansa, there is something there. What may or may not become of it, who knows?

Iam not entirely sure abou this. No meeting in season 7 and season 8 sems a lot late for it as they've ben separated for 4 seasons but they omitted his name from her for some reason. When she had a chat with Brienne.

[a black swan]

16 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

So you speak for the majority. Lucky you.  Where I come from, you'd be surprised how many saw it this way. I didn't but there you go. It seems all you need these days is for a guy to show compassion towards girl, talk to her and you want to sleep with her or vice versa.

Not a new trend now. At various stages it was. Sansa is not book canon or anywhere close to it.,Val started a lot thanks to oh no not Jon and Dany. Yeah, Jon likes her but i don't think it will go far with it or as some peopel think it will. Get the hella away from family. Anything to avoid that evil pairing. Arya is a bit different, true that's why you're adressing it because you're still believing it (not critizing). I did at one point. 

Now with the way show and book are supposed to be similar in the endgame including pairs. Even more so doubtful. Their relationship in the books is strong, weak on the show. One of the things why I'll always criticize D&D. Unless big changes are made, it seems they're not heading this way. But then George said Arya and Gendry do have a diffeent destiny or future. Not together in the books.

I think that is still yet to be determined. Especially how far this Jon/Dany thing will go. I don't think it will last. But we'll see  with D&D's bad writing, you can never tell! 

 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

5 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Iam not entirely sure abou this. No meeting in season 7 and season 8 sems a lot late for it as they've ben separated for 4 seasons but they omitted his name from her for some reason. When she had a chat with Brienne.

Jon and Dany have been separated more time. SanSan is a story built-up in time.

And we can't guarantee Sansa won't know anything about him in s7 or Sandor about Sansa.

The "leak of being afraif of Brienne is totally fake, doesn't appear in the official leak, anyway, and doesn't make sense narratively-will anyone tell Sandor

Person: go back! go back! Brienne is here!?

Sandor: Oh yes, I'm afraid!

And  Gendry and Arya will meet in a future and who knows what could happen, maybe, just maybe something (I am pessimistic but there is a basis). They have been separated 4 seasons too.

[A Ghost of Someone]

1 minute ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Iam not entirely sure abou this. No meeting in season 7 and season 8 sems a lot late for it as they've ben separated for 4 seasons but they omitted his name from her for some reason. When she had a chat with Brienne.

They may drop it, however, D.B. Weis hinted a few years ago that there is "more to come". After last year, I thought he would head North and find out what happened to Sansa, fill her in on the fact that it was LF that betrayed Ned to his death and that would be how LF dies, if at all. Now, unless we are being deliberately lead astray, that is not going to happen and they may not meet again this year or who knows about next year. I actually think Sansa stands a good chance at dying, just a vibe.

[Leticia Stark]

I believe Arya/Gendry will happen in the show and Stark/Baratheon will finally unite just like Robert wanted.

[Le Cygne]

5 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

That is if Briene stops cock - blocking him by intimidation (the most laughable of spoilers). 

Brienne is cock blocking Sandor!  These leaks are the gift that keeps giving.

[Lady Ren]

This topic may be a few pages old, but regarding Dany going all crazy because of her Targ-ness.

The show uses medieval characterization of mental illness – “madness”. But even if inbreeding has resulted in severe mental illness, what’s to say that mental illness = unscrupulous killer? There’s a huge spectrum when it comes to mental illness. I’m not on the down-low when it comes to research on mental illness and common genetic pools, but what’s to say unscrupulous killer is the only result?

Overwhelming majority of people who are mentally ill aren’t psycopaths or power hungry.  In fact most mental illness that results in crime or criminal behavior is characterized by poverty and lack of social support. Most people that have small disorders that render their day to day difficult, if not for social support, financial breaks, cognitive and behavior therapy, and possibly medicine. 

This is not an argument for moral relativism, but rather encouraging everyone to take responsibility in the world that they create and the behavior they inable.

Dany isn’t a killer because of genetics. She’s a killer because her world and those around her encourage that behavior. She’s rewarded. Like most Targs she’s without repercussion and believes that the means justify the ends.

I don’t think she will go crazy. The Dany you see now will be the Dany you see until the end I think.

And no, she’s not GoT version of Mother Theresa (i.e.: throw in some dragons and nudity) or even Lincoln. She is completely lacking in awareness, dismissive of consequence, and only curbs her impulses when her advisors show her that there is no other way.

Yes, she freed slaves. Yes, she’s a woman. So what? Did the unsullied really have any other choice but to follow her? Did she put in place a system whereby they could survive and live normal lives? A true altruist wouldn’t have asked them to join her cause. Does she pay them? Just because they are grateful for kindness and more freedom than they’ve had before doesn’t make her a fitting ruler.

Dany, like any other person, isn’t impervious to bias. For example, it’s not rape if two people are married (i.e.: Dothraki raids and her making Drogo promise that the men would marry the single women they raped). She was victim to circumstance and era, and so she can’t be blamed for her opinion. But she intervened and demanded a change to the custom. I bring this up to highlight the fact that Dany very strongly believes in her own views and she doesn’t hesitate to impose them on others. What about case by case marriage?

A more recent example is her blaming Tyrion for his "mistake" last season. He handles her with kid gloves - always.

She never, ever stops to think - what if I’m wrong? That is a very important trait for decision makers to have, and she doesn’t have it.

Even if she had never burnt a single person, even if her genetic history didn’t exist, she’s not fit to rule.

[A Ghost of Someone]

4 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Brienne is cock blocking Sandor!  These leaks are the gift that keeps giving.

Brienne the Brute, " I M BRUUUUUUTE ".

[Commander Jon Snow]

Dany has married for political purposes twice now. In the books, there is the possibility she will marry Vic or Euron for political reasons again. If she does marry towards the end of the series, I think she will marry for love. And both books and show, I think Jon Snow is the most obvious choice. "Blue rose on the wall" and "bride of fire".

It seems obvious but I don't see why it wouldn't happen. They both are each other's types, have a very similar history of learning to be a leader, and have had to make difficult decisions (I think Jon when he is resurrected in the books will be much darker than he was before)

[Le Cygne]

6 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Jon and Dany have been separated more time. SanSan is a story built-up in time.

And we can't guarantee Sansa won't know anything about him in s7 or Sandor about Sansa.

The "leak of being afraif of Brienne is totally fake, doesn't appear in the official leak, anyway, and doesn't make sense narratively-will anyone tell Sandor

Person: go back! go back! Brienne is here!?

Sandor: Oh yes, I'm afraid!

And  Gendry and Arya will meet in a future and who knows what could happen, maybe, just maybe something (I am pessimistic but there is a basis). They have been separated 4 seasons too.

Run away! Picturing Sandor and the BWB hearing about Brienne and running away like in Monty Python, when they ran away from the killer bunny.

Yeah, I think they will follow up on the a man thing, that had to be continued all over it. Also he told Arya to ask Sansa "who came back for her"... Also pulling for some convo with Sandor and Gendry about the Stark sisters.

[Lord Friendzone]

Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

Jon and Dany have been separated more time. SanSan is a story built-up in time.

And we can't guarantee Sansa won't know anything about him in s7 or Sandor about Sansa.

The "leak of being afraif of Brienne is totally fake, doesn't appear in the official leak, anyway, and doesn't make sense narratively-will anyone tell Sandor

Person: go back! go back! Brienne is here!?

Sandor: Oh yes, I'm afraid!

And  Gendry and Arya will meet in a future and who knows what could happen, maybe, just maybe something (I am pessimistic but there is a basis). They have been separated 4 seasons too.

Different relationship, They never meet in the fitrt place but hopefully SanSan will be true. At least , Jaime and Brienne are being confirmed and actually.  I could imagine some people would be a bit confused, because they don't even remember things happening in season 4 ,but maybe I should watch it with a different bunch.  Always have to remind them of things that happened, so my view is probably skewed by them. Also, D&D are sort of poor with consistency.

As for Ara and Gendry. They'll surely meet. George said something to the context that they do have a different future, probably not romantical together. Who knows what of show.

3 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

They may drop it, however, D.B. Weis hinted a few years ago that there is "more to come". After last year, I thought he would head North and find out what happened to Sansa, fill her in on the fact that it was LF that betrayed Ned to his death and that would be how LF dies, if at all. Now, unless we are being deliberately lead astray, that is not going to happen and they may not meet again this year or who knows about next year. I actually think Sansa stands a good chance at dying, just a vibe.

I thought they would by this time but so far no. D&D are capable of many things but I do remember their interview about them a few years back. But they seem to forget from time to time about continuity of the show and ignore things. Let's hope so they didn't but who knows. They omitted his name when Brienne talked to Sansa. It seems deliberate and not been used at the right tme. He's trying to stay away from Winterfell because of Brienne but he must know of Sansa. So at least that.

[Lady Ren]

39 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

No one can convince me that the show wasn't pairing Jon and Sansa off last year. Also, the show did it. It wasn't coming from me! I really thought that they were going to pair Sansa off with Small Jon Umber after they announced that casting. I think it (Jonsa) still is going to go somewhere, or at least I will be shocked if it doesn't. I think it should be Arya though since the outline points that way. Dany and Jon make perfect sense though. Every pairing has its flaws really. 

Me too. the show did it to me too.

[A Ghost of Someone]

1 minute ago, Lady Ren said:

This topic may be a few pages old, but regarding Dany going all crazy because of her Targ-ness.

The show uses medieval characterization of mental illness – “madness”. But even if inbreeding has resulted in severe mental illness, what’s to say that mental illness = unscrupulous killer? There’s a huge spectrum when it comes to mental illness. I’m not on the down-low when it comes to research on mental illness and common genetic pools, but what’s to say unscrupulous killer is the only result?

Overwhelming majority of people who are mentally ill aren’t psycopaths or power hungry.  In fact most mental illness that results in crime or criminal behavior is characterized by poverty and lack of social support. Most people that have small disorders that render their day to day difficult, if not for social support, financial breaks, cognitive and behavior therapy, and possibly medicine. 

This is not an argument for moral relativism, but rather encouraging everyone to take responsibility in the world that they create and the behavior they inable.

Dany isn’t a killer because of genetics. She’s a killer because her world and those around her encourage that behavior. She’s rewarded. Like most Targs she’s without repercussion and believes that the means justify the ends.

I don’t think she will go crazy. The Dany you see now will be the Dany you see until the end I think.

And no, she’s not GoT version of Mother Theresa (i.e.: throw in some dragons and nudity) or even Lincoln. She is completely lacking in awareness, dismissive of consequence, and only curbs her impulses when her advisors show her that there is no other way.

Yes, she freed slaves. Yes, she’s a woman. So what? Did the unsullied really have any other choice but to follow her? Did she put in place a system whereby they could survive and live normal lives? A true altruist wouldn’t have asked them to join her cause. Does she pay them? Just because they are grateful for kindness and more freedom than they’ve had before doesn’t make her a fitting ruler.

Dany, like any other person, isn’t impervious to bias. For example, it’s not rape if two people are married (i.e.: Dothraki raids and her making Drogo promise that the men would marry the single women they raped). She was victim to circumstance and era, and so she can’t be blamed for her opinion. But she intervened and demanded a change to the custom. I bring this up to highlight the fact that Dany very strongly believes in her own views and she doesn’t hesitate to impose them on others. What about case by case marriage?

A more recent example is her blaming Tyrion for his "mistake" last season. He handles her with kid gloves - always.

She never, ever stops to think - what if I’m wrong? That is a very important trait for decision makers to have, and she doesn’t have it.

Even if she had never burnt a single person, even if her genetic history didn’t exist, she’s not fit to rule.

Interesting.

My biggest problem with Dany, books and show is that she has a massive Entitlement and Arrogance problem. She benefits from plot armor that few others can rival (Tyrion, Cersei and LF).

Not a Dany fan.

The Targaryen Curse - Gods flip a coin ever time on is born. One side is madness, the other greatness. To be fair, her coin is probably still in the air.

 

[Commander Jon Snow]

SanSan unfortunately probably won't happen, I think. Most of the hints that the creators talked about were before they knew the ending of the books. Literally, the moment they found out the end of each character in the books, they never even mentioned SanSan. Doesn't bode very well for it I think