IheartIheartTesla Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 30 minutes ago, Fez said: Anyway, the live tweets of Trump's meeting with the New York Times are fascinating. For the most part he sounds like someone who very badly wants the approval and acceptance of the editorial board there; likely because he's spent his whole life viewing them as the ultimate authority figure. He also sounds like Obama's been working him over on a lot of policy stuff; or at least trying to. He seems to have moderated his stance on climate change too, which gives me hope he wont completely shred the Paris accord. Or someone told him that other countries would start carbon taxing US exports, which is probably a language he understands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 So basically, if he keeps on walking back his campaign promises and his followers continue to support him, they can't keep claiming that they support him because he'll do this or that for their economic interests and will have to admit to the fact that they voted for him due in large part because his brand of bigotry appealed to them in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Werthead said: Is that really likely? She'll be tainted, not by all the email stuff and everything else that evaporated along the way, but by simly having "lost" twice. The Democrats need someone untainted by past associations with a really good shot at taking the Presidency. Warren? The Democrats really need to start putting some thought into that. I imagine that many Democrats will be leery of backing another female nominee in 2020, because she'll be "unlikable" and "flawed" and all of those other freighted terms that were applied to Hillary Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 That's the problem with electing someone with poorly articulated policy positions and whose mind changes on a whim. I'd howl with laughter if he does a trillion dollars worth of deficit spending and makes a Republican congress pass such a bill. Its small consolation for other disasters that might occur, but some of this is exactly like what Obama said: the reality of governing is going to come up hard against his campaign promises, incoherent as they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: I imagine that many Democrats will be leery of backing another female nominee in 2020, because she'll be "unlikable" and "flawed" and all of those other freighted terms that were applied to Hillary Clinton. I am one of those democrats. I want to see a woman president, and it was one of the reasons I supported Clinton. But I think that in 2020, like 2004, Trump will be so unpopular with the left that the most important question will be electability. I'm anticipating a white man for the Democrats in 2020. Whether that will actually work is another question, as Sherrod Brown (or whoever) could just be Kerry redux. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: So basically, if he keeps on walking back his campaign promises and his followers continue to support him, they can't keep claiming that they support him because he'll do this or that for their economic interests and will have to admit to the fact that they voted for him due in large part because his brand of bigotry appealed to them in some way. Nope, just go back to Rationalizing 101: Blame Someone Else. It will be said that it was obstructionism/corruption that prevented him from making the "changes" he really "wanted to." That will be the rational behind his second term run, "this time, he'll get to actually do whatever the hell he thought he could." This feeds right into the "he's not a politician, he'll take it to them!" voter's ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Just now, Maithanet said: I am one of those democrats. I want to see a woman president, and it was one of the reasons I supported Clinton. But I think that in 2020, like 2004, Trump will be so unpopular with the left that the most important question will be electability. I'm anticipating a white man for the Democrats in 2020. Whether that will actually work is another question, as Sherrod Brown (or whoever) could just be Kerry redux. Time will tell. Although there was a great deal of bitterness in my comment, I am a pragmatist. Whatever Democrat seems likely to defeat Trump is the one I'll support. If the Creature from the Black Lagoon is polling well and runs on the Democratic ticket, I'll donate to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: Although there was a great deal of bitterness in my comment, I am a pragmatist. Whatever Democrat seems likely to defeat Trump is the one I'll support. If the Creature from the Black Lagoon is polling well and runs on the Democratic ticket, I'll donate to it. I'm a bit concerned about the Creature's sexual assault allegations, although those are mostly from the 1950s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 28 minutes ago, butterbumps! said: I definitely agree this is a frightening possibility, and something we should be vigilant about. I don't mean to dismiss this idea. My thought was more that the demographics that had been favorable to her are no longer very impressed with her generally, and becoming more critical. I think her base is largely comprised of woman trump voters now (or at least increasingly so as her formerly tolerant parties seem to be losing patience, and are not the ones typically reading white nationalist agitprop) While she may remain popular with women trump voters, I can't see her going into the white nationalism that propelled her father. Nor does she project the toxic masculinity that so many of his fans were attracted to. Yeah, we have to see. A lot of people were attracted to Trump because they felt he was "real", he "told it like it is." That's why, even though all the evidence pointed the other way, Trump was perceived to be more honest than Clinton. If the alt-right websites manage to feed their base with toxic, fake news the next four years, I could see them still voting for Ivanka, just because they've been trained to think she's awesome. Those people are now in the stage where they see DJT as some saviour - they won't accept that he's wrong in any way, they'll never believe the MSM because it's "biased" and "bought off." So if he endorses Ivanka, I think it's possible they end up voting for her. If this really happens, I'm pretty sure it'll be portrayed as something along the lines of "look, we're not misogynistic, we support such a strong, successful woman, the lefties are crazy as usual." What I'm worried about is people on the left being impressed by her branding - that she's a "working woman who can do it all." It might be portrayed as a triumph for feminism, to attract the left, but it's really not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 17 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I'm a bit concerned about the Creature's sexual assault allegations, although those are mostly from the 1950s. Oh, that was just black lagoon talk. All creatures do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said: Yeah, we have to see. A lot of people were attracted to Trump because they felt he was "real", he "told it like it is." That's why, even though all the evidence pointed the other way, Trump was perceived to be more honest than Clinton. If the alt-right websites manage to feed their base with toxic, fake news the next four years, I could see them still voting for Ivanka, just because they've been trained to think she's awesome. Those people are now in the stage where they see DJT as some saviour - they won't accept that he's wrong in any way, they'll never believe the MSM because it's "biased" and "bought off." So if he endorses Ivanka, I think it's possible they end up voting for her. If this really happens, I'm pretty sure it'll be portrayed as something along the lines of "look, we're not misogynistic, we support such a strong, successful woman, the lefties are crazy as usual." What I'm worried about is people on the left being impressed by her branding - that she's a "working woman who can do it all." It might be portrayed as a triumph for feminism, to attract the left, but it's really not. I think that's all possible, but I'm not so sure the male trump fans will be persuaded over to her. She doesn't really offer the male alt righters much of anything they seem to want. My concern about this scenario is much more whether the left would fall for the branding fallacy you bring up, the characterization of which I agree with. I think as a related issue, it should become better understood that hollow missives about "empowerment" isn't feminism; it's cheerleading. i think she could be popular with white women, but I'm not so sure how much her appeal can grow outside that demographic. I get the sense kushner is looking for something more though. Would t surprise me if he's got a whole house of cards fantasy going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 22 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: Oh, that was just black lagoon talk. All creatures do it. Its different when white creatures do it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 14 minutes ago, butterbumps! said: I get the sense kushner is looking for something more though. Would t surprise me if he's got a whole house of cards fantasy going on. 110% yes. IIRC, that guy also met the Japanese PM along with Ivanka and DJT. BTW, "8 years." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said: So basically, if he keeps on walking back his campaign promises and his followers continue to support him, they can't keep claiming that they support him because he'll do this or that for their economic interests and will have to admit to the fact that they voted for him due in large part because his brand of bigotry appealed to them in some way. Or maybe, just maybe, the people who opposed him will admit that most of Trump's supporters understood that many of his campaign promises were completely nonsensical and voted for him simply because they wanted change or somebody to at least make a show of appealing to them or any number of other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Altherion said: Or maybe, just maybe, the people who opposed him will admit that most of Trump's supporters understood that many of his campaign promises were completely nonsensical and voted for him simply because they wanted change or somebody to at least make a show of appealing to them or any number of other reasons. I'm pretty sure this suggestion is what's nonsensical and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 51 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: Although there was a great deal of bitterness in my comment, I am a pragmatist. Whatever Democrat seems likely to defeat Trump is the one I'll support. If the Creature from the Black Lagoon is polling well and runs on the Democratic ticket, I'll donate to it. I warned you about Trump when you and Shryke were gleeful that he was winning on the Republican side. I warned you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Why the Ruling Against Wisconsin’s Gerrymander Could Change Redistricting in America http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/11/22/wisconsin_partisan_gerrymander_the_supreme_court_could_take_the_case.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: Why the Ruling Against Wisconsin’s Gerrymander Could Change Redistricting in America http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/11/22/wisconsin_partisan_gerrymander_the_supreme_court_could_take_the_case.html I sincerely hope the hold political gerrymandering illegal. Will people still support gerrymandering that creates "Minority-Majority" districts. I think that helps Republican candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 15 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I warned you about Trump when you and Shryke were gleeful that he was winning on the Republican side. I warned you. Ser Scot, it is duly noted that you expected that Republican voters were small-minded and tolerant of a white nationalist bully. Feel better? Edited to add: And who cares if you were right? Shryke is Canadian and I am not a Republican, so neither of us could have affected that primary, anyway, so what does it matter, except to your sense of being-rightness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I live in a legal pot state and haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Never did it when it was illegal, either. As a result of Sessions being appointed, I'm finally trying it for the first time today. Never know if the feds will crack down like they did under Bush. Going to go with an edible, since I don't want to smoke. Trump's Pick for Attorney General Is a 'Drug War Dinosaur' Jeff Sessions opposes sentencing reform, defends civil forfeiture, and criticizes the Obama administration for letting states legalize marijuana. https://reason.com/blog/2016/11/21/trumps-pick-for-attorney-general-is-a-dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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