mormont Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 Sad that so many were injured and some have died. But I'm glad the security services seem to have responded so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said: Am watching this with great anxiety for all of you in London. The damn announcers keep talking about the tactic of diversions before the main event and the anniversary of the Brussels attack. I've been watching the BBC and Channel 4 all day, and have heard not a whisper of this kind of scaremongering. Pathetic. 11 minutes ago, James Arryn said: Also, in that we apparently can't stop reacting exactly as the terrorists want us to react, the fact that French schoolgirls were among the victims might have significant effects on Le Pin's campaign. How are we reacting that is exactly as the terrorists want? Everyone here seems completely calm and stoical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, Hereward said: I've been watching the BBC and Channel 4 all day, and have heard not a whisper of this kind of scaremongering. Pathetic. How are we reacting that is exactly as the terrorists want? Everyone here seems completely calm and stoical. I meant more with regards to overall upscaling of reactionary/nativist political directions, not less stiffened upper lips. Popular behaviour right after attacks almost always seem to be stoic, empathetic and/or defiant, I agree, but political choices made thereafter trend towards xenophobia or islamiphobia. In particular here I meant that the FN might see a surge in the polls; I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Channel4 has had it confirmed that the attacker was Islamic hate preacher Abu Izzadeen. People in the UK will probably know who is he is. He was an associate of Abu Hamza and then of Anjem Choudary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Yes, I was just about to post that now it has been confirmed that this was someone well-known and previously convicted, people will be angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Hereward said: I've been watching the BBC and Channel 4 all day, and have heard not a whisper of this kind of scaremongering. Pathetic. Really. That's why I said damn announcers. Americans always seem to ask, is this person alone or are there others doing things elsewhere. We may be being unfair, though. Maybe it comes from their years of coverage in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Israel too, where there regularly have been multiple incidents at once. Typically a bomb going off, and then when rescuers rush in, another goes off. Iirc, the IRA did that a few times as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Yes, but this is the most secure place in Britain. The only way any damage could be done was by an act of surprise. Once the police, security agencies and military in the area are mobilised and on the streets, any subsequent attack would be suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 20 minutes ago, Hereward said: Yes, I was just about to post that now it has been confirmed that this was someone well-known and previously convicted, people will be angry. On the other hand, and this is a take based on not much information I know, but if this attack was carried out by a guy that normally works as a fundraiser/recruiter, does that suggest he couldn't find a willing volunteer? ETA: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, mormont said: On the other hand, and this is a take based on not much information I know, but if this attack was carried out by a guy that normally works as a fundraiser/recruiter, does that suggest he couldn't find a willing volunteer Of course, but people can be angry that a known Islamist extremist could be at liberty to do this, without considering that he wasn't able to organise a major conspiracy. Plus, there now seems to be some doubt that the suspect was correctly identified, in which case a known terrorist fundraiser just got rich. That'll go down well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Apparently Abu Izzadeen's brother has called Channel4 to say that his brother is still in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 22 minutes ago, Hereward said: Plus, there now seems to be some doubt that the suspect was correctly identified, in which case a known terrorist fundraiser just got rich. I suspect a judge would correctly say that if you're in jail for promoting terrorism, you can't be defamed by someone claiming that you committed an act of terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Well, of course you can. You can't accuse a criminal of any crime you feel like on general principles. If you accuse someone of murder when they are demonstrably innocent, you're going to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hereward said: Well, of course you can. You can't accuse a criminal of any crime you feel like on general principles. If you accuse someone of murder when they are demonstrably innocent, you're going to lose. I'm no lawyer, but I understand that even if you lose the damages are based on the plaintiff establishing serious harm to their reputation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 The question would indeed be about the extent of the damage, so the figure could be small. But it is untrue to say that he couldn't be defamed, it's an open and shut case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Quote Yes, but this is the most secure place in Britain It's almost as secure as it can be, and the speed of the reaction was reasonable, but it's really not the most secure place in Britain. It's a tourist attraction and a functioning office building as well as the seat of government, and it's very hard to keep all of those things in play at once without sacrificing something. Almost all of the ministries are harder to gain access to and Downing Street, GCHQ and military installations far more so. A lot of the commentary today has been on the fact that it's been twelve years since the last major terrorist attack in London, when the feeling after 7/7 was very much that we'd see a lot more similar attacks. The police and intelligence services have done an outstanding job of stopping attacks before they happen. How the hell they'd be able to protect against attacks like this is less clear. Bollards and vehicle traps at the end of the pavements on the bridges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Fair point. Hyperbole on my part. The basic argument stands, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Well, the first family of our closest allies are exuding class againhttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-criticizes-london-mayor-after-deadly-attack.html?_r=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Literally the only way to stop this sort of thing is to stop vehicular access to pavements or pedestrianized areas. We've seen that done in most areas round shopping centers and airports etc after Glasgow airport got attacked but you cannot realistically fence off every pavement. Just look a Oxford Street, how the hell would you stop this happening there given the length of the street? Cars are everywhere and access to them is easy. Access to build up areas with lots of soft targets is even easier. Not easy to stop this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Which Tyler said: Well, the first family of our closest allies are exuding class againhttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-criticizes-london-mayor-after-deadly-attack.html?_r=0 Where the fuck is his chin? On a totally separate note, here's a little levity amongst tragedy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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