Stormking902 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 On 02/03/2017 at 6:12 PM, Renly's Banana said: I don't get why a lot of you seem to think Robb with Margaery is a realistic betrothal. If this scenario is before Robert's death and the war, then Mace has very little reason to throw away his only daughter to the man who broke his siege and made him bend the knee not that long ago. Highgarden doesn't have any historical ties to Winterfell, why would he marry her to Robb? What would he gain? And even if this scenario is AFTER the war breaks out -- Robb doesn't want anything to do with the Iron Throne. He'd be throwing House Tyrell into a war just so his daughter can be.. queen in the north? Why? What he wants is King's Landing. What's more, we know he was basically saving Marg to make her a Baratheon queen by any means. If she didn't seduce Robert like they planned then he would have most likely married her to Renly anyway, just to be closer to the succession. Hell, I can see him pushing Margaery on Stannis before Robb. The Martells are also on a similar boat. In Doran's eyes, the Starks must seem only a shade less awful than the Lannisters for what they helped to do. Maybe, MAYBE Trystane to Arya, and even that's pushing it. Mace wants his daughter to be queen yes but in this scenario its not gonna happen since Robert is still alive and Robert isnt going to marry his children to the Tyrells. So why wouldnt Mace want Marg to marry Rob Stark future lord on the North? The Tyrells are upjumped stewards while Robb has the oldest blood in Westeros whos family ruled for over 8000 years. Also what does Robb bring to the table? Ever hear of the hour of the wolf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Ooooh finally an interesting question again! Robb: Well the problem with Margaery is that at this point the Tyrells and Renly were trying to make her Robert's Queen, somehow, and eventually have her children on the throne, somehow. However their motivation wasn't queendom for queendom's sake. Their motivation was to consolidate and secure the continuing power of the Tyrell family. This would already be helped by marrying into an old and powerful family as the Starks, and it is a goal that is (at that point) more realistic than some lofty dreams of queenship. The Tyrells might also be swayed by at the same time brokering a marriage between either Sansa and Willas or Sansa and Renly, which would confirm that you are indeed throwing in your fate with that of Team Renly. Outside of that, wouldn't Myranda Royce be a good option to get a connection to the Vale? Sweetrobin/Arya would not work out, so there would be need of other options. Sansa: Either Willas or Renly, depending on how the marriage negotiations with the Tyrells go (i.e. whether the added bonus of a Sansa/Willas marriage is needed to get them to agree to Robb/Margaery or whether they might even prefer Sansa/Renly) Brann: Shireen is a good idea...but 1) she has greyscale 2)Would Stannis ever consent to it? He has his own agenda, after all and if he learns of any Stark/Tryell or Stark/Renly matches he might not be inclined. Myrcella might work ...but what would be the point of that? If you know about the Wot5K then you also know that the children are bastards. Might marry him to Myranda, because the Tyrells would not settle for a second son. Arya: Yep, Trystane Martell. Since Arianne and Quentyn are kind of "busy" with Doran's Masterplan and all, Trystane is the only option to marry into the Martells, plus Arya would do reasonably well in Dorne given their progressive stance. Rickon: Lyanna Mormont, to keep the local lords content who might not be happy if the Starks marry all their children outside of the North. Jon:....he's a bastard, the only longshot I can imagine is to reveal his true parentage to Doran and maaaaaaaaaaybe broker a Arianne/Jon "Targaryen" match, which of course would stir shit up something fierce. Or to go really out and contact Mance Rayder about a Jon/Val match...but I'm not sure how helpful that would be considering the Wildling power structure..This would of course also cause major problems, unless you'd manage to disguise the Wildling migration as an attempt to resettle the gift. But how would you get the Creepy Cult of Idiots...erm...the Night's Watch to go along with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 5 hours ago, LionoftheWest said: The problem I see with this is that there's no reason for Myrcella to go to Winterfell before the war breaks out as she would be to young for a formal marriage. As such I think this could at worst just be tying up Robb instead of giving him a wife from another House which could provide some more concrete support. Now I think that Robert could agree to the match, even while he may also reject his as he's himself already thinking of a match between Joffrey and Sansa and so don't want to put a double tie to a single House. Also I am not sure that a match between Arya and Robert Arryn would ammount to much. Like the thing above, both kids are far to young for a formal marriage and I doubt that it would be enough to get Lysa from under Littlefinger's foot. Most of the others could work, although I would personally not send Sansa to the Iron Islands given how likely it is that she and Theon would not get along very well and she would stand out like a fish on land among the Ironmen. I think that Arya would actually be more suited to a life there than Sansa, who could be more useful in a match further south. I understand your points completely. The OP invites us to arranges matches that may be the most advantageous. Though I did ignore the "during the WOT5K" part, I think these matches could have avoided the war entirely. I wasn't considering Robert or anyone's ideas other than the Starks. Besides, I think Sansa would have matured a great deal faster if she'd gone to the Iron Islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 @Stormking902 The Hour of the Wolf happened under completely different and unrelated conditions. The south had been ravaged and spent after years of civil war and the north marched down with an untouched and strong force to occupy the capital alone. It's different. The Starks have the whole "pure/old blood" honorable angle going on but little else to offer Highgarden prior to the war. The ONLY way I see Mace actually agreeing to marry his daughter to Robb is if in some alternate reality Ned Stark had stayed alive as Robert's hand or his regent. Basically if he hadn't gotten his head chopped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 17 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said: @Stormking902 The Hour of the Wolf happened under completely different and unrelated conditions. The south had been ravaged and spent after years of civil war and the north marched down with an untouched and strong force to occupy the capital alone. It's different. The Starks have the whole "pure/old blood" honorable angle going on but little else to offer Highgarden prior to the war. The ONLY way I see Mace actually agreeing to marry his daughter to Robb is if in some alternate reality Ned Stark had stayed alive as Robert's hand or his regent. Basically if he hadn't gotten his head chopped off. Given the parameters of the challenge/assignment from the OP, Mace could have thought it was a good idea betrothing his daughter to the next Hand of the King. Nobody foresaw Robert dying, Ned being executed, etc. And it would never have occurred to Mace that Ned might turn down the position offered to him. Yes, we all know what happened, but we're supposed to be arranging marriages at a point when none of it has happened, and if these matches had been made, the story might have gone differently. It's the butterfly effect, times six. This whole exercise rather is an alternate reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Ned didn't need premonition to take certain decisions for the good of the North and his realm. Instead he opted for the family man role while things degenerated all around him. This is what Ned should have done a- Benjen shouldn't have been allowed to join the NW. If he is in the NW then he should be taken out (Ned should ask Robert to free Benjen in exchange of him becoming hand of the king) after Ned a serious word with him about the future. The North is vast and it needs an adult Stark to take care of it. With Robb still a boy and with Ned in KL causing unnecessary trouble, Benjen should be around to keep the fort and make sure Ned's crazy wife doesn't take a Lannister hostage or his nephew doesn't put a crown over his stupid head. Ned should thank him for the effort by broker a marriage between him and one of Manderly's grand nieces (Wylla Manderly?).That would set him for his life. b- Jon Snow should be legitimised and he should never be allowed to become a member of the NW. Benjen, Robb and Jon should know the story behind the latter's parentage. c- The fact that such enormous region doesn't even have a fleet is frigging disgrace, especially since its a spit away from a pack of glorified pirates. The issue became more urgent when Theon became Ned's ward. Ned should have ordered the construction of a fleet d-You never say no to a King's offer, but when a king is desperate, there's room to set a good deal. Ned should have suggested Arya instead of Sansa. The former is younger, she's uglier and her boyish attitude makes it more difficult to marry. Considering that the king was eager to take a train to nostalgia then he would surely be more interested towards a girl whose the spitting image of Lyanna then some lady who resembled Queen Cersei. Ned's only role is push the right thoughts inside the king's head e- With Joffrey out of the way, Robb is the most 'profitable' bachelor in Westeros. He's heir to Winterfell, his father is hand of the king, his uncle is LP of the Riverlands, his sister will soon become queen and his cousin is Warden of the East. Mace would surely be interested for a matchup between Robb and Margaery. f- As said, Ned needs a fleet. The Freys are unreliable neighbours who may cause issues if the North need to cross quickly in the Riverlands, while the Greyjoys are a potential threat. Under such circumstances a marriage between Bran Stark and Desmera Redywne could be on the cards.The Starks would have 200 warships if they ever need it. f- Hoster is crazy to piss off the Freys the way he always do. That's something Ned should try and ratify. The Stark should work Walder up by attending to his numerous weddings. If the Frey Lord suggest a marriage between a Stark and a Frey then Ned should take the chance to marry Rickon to Walda Frey (Stevron Frey's grand niece) securing an enduring alliance between the Starks and their rich neighbours. g- With Arya becoming queen soon, Ned needs to make sure that its all cool between the Martells and the Starks. A matriarchal marriage between Jon Stark and Arianne Martell would be a good idea at this point. Arianne needs someone with noble blood to marry who won't be so fussy if his kids doesn't bear his surname. Jon is a legitimised bastard (which is not a real issue in Dorne) whose basically share blood (or has half brothers who share the blood) with the top people of most of Westeros. i- Sansa will be kept for last, possibly to marry either Renly Baratheon or Robin Arryn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter daughter Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Robb: Arianne Martell / Margaerry Tyrell Sansa: Willas Tyrell / Renly Baratheon Arya: Trystane Martell / Theon Greyjoy Bran: Shireen Baratheon / Lyanna Mormont Rickon: One of the freys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Mace would never go with a Robb/Margaery betrothal. Not only is Mace trying to see his daughter a Queen, but we've also heard what he thinks of the North, and it isn't much. He'd never allow it. That said, Robb and Sansa are the most valuable pieces. If Robb married a Vale girl, such as Ysilla Royce, it could definitely help when the war inevitably breaks out, by bringing the most powerful Vale bannerman to your side. Maybe Myrcella as well. If Sansa isn't to marry Joffrey, I can see Mace going for a Willas/Sansa betrothal. The Starks are still a great house, and in this case he wouldn't have to send a Tyrell to live in the dreary North. Renly would also be a good option. Arya isn't particularly valuable I don't think from a marriage perspective. I can see her being betrothed to a second son, like Trystane Martell, or maybe Loras or Tommen. Bran/Shireen would be a good match, I think. I don't know if Stannis would really go for it, but at this rate it doesn't look like he's having any more kids, and Shireen does stand to inherit a sizable lordship, while Bran is second in line for Winterfell behind Robb. Rickon at this point should probably be married off in the North. Being a third son he doesn't stand to inherit much, so his best chance is for a minor lord somewhere in Westeros. I don't think Ned could get away with marrying him to an heiress, or even a firstborn daughter of a Lord Paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Fat Mac said: Mace would never go with a Robb/Margaery betrothal. Not only is Mace trying to see his daughter a Queen, but we've also heard what he thinks of the North, and it isn't much. He'd never allow it. <snip Well a lot of us have put Robb with Myrcella which is not possible to set up before Robert gets to Winterfell, so I'm not sure if realistic is a reference point. We all have our fantasy couples that never were, and Robb/Margaery is one of the most popular (I admit to being a fan myself). So far as we know Mace had no plans to make Margaery a queen until Renly suggested it. Mace's ambition for his daughter is not on the same level as say Tywin's for Cersei. What people in the series say and what they think do not always match up. We don't hear anything from Mace until he's in a position where it's to his benefit to denigrate the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Given the parameters of the challenge/assignment from the OP, Mace could have thought it was a good idea betrothing his daughter to the next Hand of the King. Nobody foresaw Robert dying, Ned being executed, etc. And it would never have occurred to Mace that Ned might turn down the position offered to him. Yes, we all know what happened, but we're supposed to be arranging marriages at a point when none of it has happened, and if these matches had been made, the story might have gone differently. It's the butterfly effect, times six. This whole exercise rather is an alternate reality. Uh I'd argue a bunch of the players in King's Landing knew Robert was not long for this world. However that is probably a discussion for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said: Uh I'd argue a bunch of the players in King's Landing knew Robert was not long for this world. However that is probably a discussion for another thread. That's a fair assessment. I perhaps should have said that Mace and Ned didn't foresee Robert dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: That's a fair assessment. I perhaps should have said that Mace and Ned didn't foresee Robert dying. Mace yes. Eddard was warned by Varys and still didn't take it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 14 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: Mace yes. Eddard was warned by Varys and still didn't take it seriously. Yes, but Eddard doesn't get warned until he gets to KL though. The thread scenario is before Robert has even gotten to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Yes, but Eddard doesn't get warned until he gets to KL though. The thread scenario is before Robert has even gotten to Winterfell. Indeed my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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