Darth Richard II Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Ugh, please don't mention Memory of Light. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Noob question: what is it meant by wave function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Just now, Darth Richard II said: Ugh, please don't mention Memory of Light. :/ Maybe Madness wrote TUC and Bakker died. Just now, Darth Richard II said: Noob question: what is it meant by wave function. A wave function is simply referring to something that can be described by a mathematical depiction of a wave. In quantum physics, it refers specifically to how particles like light act as (and are) waves that 'collapse' when they are observed. Prior to observation, they behave like a probability wave of places they could be; when they are observed, they are seen to be at that point at that time and they are 100% there, and the could be is definitive. An example of this kind of probabilistic wave function is the thought experiment around Schrodinger's cat, which is literally neither alive nor dead until observed. One of the simplest experiments to show the wave/particle duality is the Michelson Interferometer Experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Maybe Madness wrote TUC and Bakker died. Oh I loved the two before that, my problems with the final book go way deeper than just the author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 26 minutes ago, Kalbear said: the thought experiment around Schrodinger's cat, which is literally neither alive nor dead until observed. Comon man... it's either alive or dead we just don't know. But this reminds me of MG's teaser about witnessing. Quote "When we witness, we testify, and when we testify we make ourselves responsible for what we see. And that— that—is what it means to belong." ~ Kellhus It's funny that this comes up now because I've always been fascinated by this quantum mechanics stuff, especially the double slit experiment, just from reading layman science-is-cool books and watching youtube vids on the subject. But for some reason about two weeks ago I spent a whole day reading articles and watching youtube vids about how the quantum mechanics and math concepts like infinity are all BS... Not that I have an opinion on any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: On your review, Wert - we know that the weapon in Dagliash has been seen several times before, and Kellhus read about it. That's apparently how he knew what to do and what the effects are. I'm not sure if Bakker changes his mind on that, but TUC has some suggestions to the contrary. * rereads section * Okay, maybe not. More is revealed about the weapon but it's really not made clear how Kellhus knows. Quote Wow, 6th of July is much closer than I thought. Also glad to see the ending was even vaguely satifying. I've been worried for a while now that Bakker would troll us with something awful and say he was "subverting expectations". The ending is somewhat predictable (both "positive" and "negative" endings to the series have been predicted here and elsewhere) but then if it wasn't, on some level, that would only be possible with a lot of pulling shit out of thin air. Bakker certainly doesn't do that. Quote Sooo...does death come swirling down? It's mentioned in your review, but I want to be sure. We have a right to know. A few times. Three or four, I think. Quote Comon man... it's either alive or dead we just don't know Terry Pratchett's version is more astute: "A cat trapped inside a box can exist in three states: dead, alive, or bloody furious." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 57 minutes ago, Hello World said: Comon man... it's either alive or dead we just don't know. But this reminds me of MG's teaser about witnessing. It actually isn't, and that's fascinating. This whole concept of something being in a non-definitive state is what is behind quantum computation. It really isn't just a matter of us not knowing; in a very real sense for particles it is truly unknown and unknowable. And I guess this likely ties into the 'god-entangled' part of Ish that was always a bit odd. In quantum physics entanglement means that two particles that have interacted in some way cannot be described independently - they are entirely relative to each other. And what this means is that if you can see one of the particles, you know what the other one's state is, too. The flip side of that is that if you can alter one of the particles, someone observing the second particle will see the alteration affect it as well. What I would guess that this means for a person to be god entangled is that the god and the person are linked in fate and time, such that certain things (like their existence) is known beyond the current viewing period. You know, for instance, that a god-entangled person will survive for a while and thus are 'safe' to keep around, and you know that whatever they witness the god will witness as well. It is also possible that this means that, say, Mimara could forgive Sorweel and this would forgive Yatwer as well, and possibly all the souls she's ever eaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 So does this explain Bakker's metaphysics or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Also, here's a blog post that Scott linked to that talked about the problem Kellhus faced and how it obviously concluded that Kellhus had read about it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Great review, Wert. Sounds like enough is resolved to make this whole series 'complete' in and of itself -- something I was a bit worried about, given the somewhat balls-in-the-air conclusions to TGO (which I liked) and the relatively short page count of this one. July can't come soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Another question, @Werthead - I'm still not sure what you found objectionable about TGO to give it 4.5 stars, but given that prior rating and the new information does it make TGO any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I may be an outlier here, but I'm really not looking forward to another TTT-style encyclopedia at the end of TUC. I'd prefer if Bakker could weave more of the history and lore of his world into the actual text, using devices like Seswatha's dreams or the nonman helm. Apart from making it more enjoyable reading, it would also probably help readers retain the information. I guess I don't have to read it, but I feel as if the TTT encyclopedia was necessary to help parse some of the content of later books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEWLAD Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 A "manual of the outside" is pretty much what this series doesn't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Ha, you must be new to this thread then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 WHAT DO YOU GIVE ME? YOU MUST GIVE ME THE ENCYCLOPEDIA AND OUTSIDE MANUALS PALEEEEEZZZZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEWLAD Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 "The worthless magic is nothing other than the worthless existence it lights up." - Adorno (He would have hated Dungeons and Dragons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Paxter said: I may be an outlier here, but I'm really not looking forward to another TTT-style encyclopedia at the end of TUC. I'd prefer if Bakker could weave more of the history and lore of his world into the actual text, using devices like Seswatha's dreams or the nonman helm. Apart from making it more enjoyable reading, it would also probably help readers retain the information. I guess I don't have to read it, but I feel as if the TTT encyclopedia was necessary to help parse some of the content of later books. I'm hoping the Atrocity Tales will serve this purpose. The books are already quite dense, with occasional forays into outright faux-historical description (the detailing of the Cond in TJE, the various Nonman stuff in TGO). It would be cool to get a lengthy appendix structuring the history -- a larger, Bakker-composed version of Wert's recent Second Apocalypse histories -- but for now we'll have to do with the appendix and what chronology can be gleaned of it and then parsed for the PoN wiki timeline and other fan resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 7 hours ago, Hello World said: Comon man... it's either alive or dead we just don't know. But this reminds me of MG's teaser about witnessing. It's funny that this comes up now because I've always been fascinated by this quantum mechanics stuff, especially the double slit experiment, just from reading layman science-is-cool books and watching youtube vids on the subject. But for some reason about two weeks ago I spent a whole day reading articles and watching youtube vids about how the quantum mechanics and math concepts like infinity are all BS... Not that I have an opinion on any of that. Could link me to some of those videos? That sounds like mind blowing stuff, especially the part about infinity. 2 hours ago, kuenjato said: I'm hoping the Atrocity Tales will serve this purpose. The books are already quite dense, with occasional forays into outright faux-historical description (the detailing of the Cond in TJE, the various Nonman stuff in TGO). It would be cool to get a lengthy appendix structuring the history -- a larger, Bakker-composed version of Wert's recent Second Apocalypse histories -- but for now we'll have to do with the appendix and what chronology can be gleaned of it and then parsed for the PoN wiki timeline and other fan resources. It sounds like he should just go ahead and write his own Bakker-Silmarillion. That would be the easiest and most sensible way to do it imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 http://steve-patterson.com/cantor-wrong-no-infinite-sets/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/infinity-logic-law/ http://steve-patterson.com/quantum-physics-abuse-reason/ http://steve-patterson.com/infinite-things-do-not-exist/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEWLAD Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 +1 to "Infinity Don't Real" http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2015/02/20/infinity-ruining-physics/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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