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Corvinus

The Stargate franchise

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Dang, you guys got me wanting to revisit SG-1, which I didnt care for back then. I still love the movie. Its streaming on Hulu, like the one damn service I don't have. Yay for Queens having a solid library system.

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So I started watching this Origins thing.

It's really really bad. There's fanmade stuff that looks better than that. You can see that they had a very small budget.

 

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Yup. It is unfortunate that this is all they were willing to do so far. A weird way to "test the waters" imo.

 

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Agreed x2, wow, is the new series awful.

To quote the great film "The Girl Next Door" - "I could make a better film with my MOM".  WTH are they thinking, how does garbage such as this get through test audiences/etc? 

Stargate has such potential for reboot, as much, perhaps even more than Trek in some ways, yet this is what they give us?

Very disappointed. 

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I really liked SG-1 and Atlantis, never really got into Universe though, except the Ori, they were really irritating and needed hacking to pieces with a lightsaber.

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The one thing I did enjoy about the Ori story line was that IMO it was an obvious shot at the Evangelical/Right, within which I was raised and have held a great dislike for ever since.  The parallels between the Ori, their edicts, and policies, and the Evangelicals is hard to miss.  It made them all spazz out as well, which was worth the price of admission for me.  The reason they flipped out was that the Ori struck a bit too close to home.

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41 minutes ago, SerHaHa said:

The one thing I did enjoy about the Ori story line was that IMO it was an obvious shot at the Evangelical/Right, within which I was raised and have held a great dislike for ever since.  The parallels between the Ori, their edicts, and policies, and the Evangelicals is hard to miss.  It made them all spazz out as well, which was worth the price of admission for me.  The reason they flipped out was that the Ori struck a bit too close to home.

I liked the Ori in the sense it meant they were evolving the show continuosly. We had the Goauld for several seasons, them the replicators, then the Ori. It kept the show from getting stale and while they may not have been the best enemy aliens, I think it was the right move for the show to try them. Maybe they'd have improved further with time?

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22 hours ago, red snow said:

I liked the Ori in the sense it meant they were evolving the show continuosly. We had the Goauld for several seasons, them the replicators, then the Ori. It kept the show from getting stale and while they may not have been the best enemy aliens, I think it was the right move for the show to try them. Maybe they'd have improved further with time?

I enjoyed the Goauld storylines more than the Ori, although to be fair I’d liked to have seen more of the Ancients too.

23 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

The one thing I did enjoy about the Ori story line was that IMO it was an obvious shot at the Evangelical/Right, within which I was raised and have held a great dislike for ever since.  The parallels between the Ori, their edicts, and policies, and the Evangelicals is hard to miss.  It made them all spazz out as well, which was worth the price of admission for me.  The reason they flipped out was that the Ori struck a bit too close to home.

Yeah, that’s not an angle I’d given much thought too, given my lack of exposure to the religious right in the US, but now you’ve said it, it is really apparent.

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The Ori were good in that they provided a significant challenge for the good guys, and yes, because of the religious connotations. The season 9 finale where the good guys get their asses handed to them in a space battle is one of the best episodes in the final two seasons. However, the Ori were poor on the originality scale; in how they were presented, they were too similar to the Goa'uld. The Ori had big, unstoppable ships; the Goa'uld had that, initially, until Earth started developing their own; the Ori foot soldiers were firm believers in the Ori religion, just like the Jaffa initially were, and their gear and weapons were just too similar.

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I remember the giant stargate in space - that was cool. And cigarette smoking man from X-files was an Ori.

These last couple of posts reminded me how rich a franchise they'd built and that's before the inclusion of the Atlantis and SGU ideas. I think nowadays there'd have been a lot more crossover between SG1 and Atlantis - possibly even threats for both that require them working together. From memory the crossovers were more in the sense of a guest star for the most part.

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And this brings me back to this new series Origins. I wish more of you watched it so we could discuss here, as really don't care to discuss it on their website, which is poorly organized. But it's understandable why you would want to pay for another service to watch what looks to be a fan-made short.

The show definitely looks to tie in things with the other TV shows, and less with the movie, which is good, but there are a few head scratchers rights now:

Spoiler

Assuming they're not changing canon, a few things need to happen:

  • Catherine and Kasuf (I can't believe Kasuf is in this, couldn't they come up with an original character?) need to either forget or be sworn to secrecy by some blood pact, to make O'Neill's and Jackson's discoveries actually seem fresh.
  • Gate on Abydos needs to be moved, as it's not underneath the pyramid now
  • Ra hopefully doesn't appear, or at least, doesn't interact with anyone from Earth, since he needs to act all surprised when confronted by the Tauri (ok this is more the movie plot, but the TV show has always acknowledged the movie plot)

Other stuff:

  • the 2 Goa'uld have yellow eyes, not glowing eyes WTF
  • the badass Goa'uld lady needs to mop the floor with the imbeciles that are the main cast of characters; a Goa'uld is much stronger than a regular human, but that didn't show in the fight scene

Positives

  • I liked that they put in effort to have the Goa'uld and people of Abydos talk in ancient Egyptian; they even brought the Egyptologist who worked on the original movie to help with the language; no more everyone just speaks English because reasons
  • The Goa'uld characters do seem interesting; the main baddy is Isis Aset, who was mentioned in SG1 as having been punished by Ra for a terrible crime, and she and Osiris got pulled out of their hosts, and locked up in canopic jars; so I guess this show will reveal how that happened (episode 5 already pretty much establishes why)

 

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On 2/26/2018 at 4:26 PM, Corvinus said:

The Ori were good in that they provided a significant challenge for the good guys, and yes, because of the religious connotations. The season 9 finale where the good guys get their asses handed to them in a space battle is one of the best episodes in the final two seasons. However, the Ori were poor on the originality scale; in how they were presented, they were too similar to the Goa'uld. The Ori had big, unstoppable ships; the Goa'uld had that, initially, until Earth started developing their own; the Ori foot soldiers were firm believers in the Ori religion, just like the Jaffa initially were, and their gear and weapons were just too similar.

The season 9 finale "Camelot" is a great episode.  My x worked with one of the actresses in that ep on another project, Katherine Isabelle (Valencia in that episode) when we lived in Vancouver before 2010.  One thing that always bothered me about that episode though is later the SG battleships get beam weapons from the Asgard, which give them an effective weapon vs the Ori ships, right?  There as an Asgard ship IN that battle in season 9, and all it did in the battle scenes was fly around as near as I can tell rewatching it, and shoot some sort of enegry pew pew weapons that weren't a continuous beam weapon.  Funny that the Asgard were the key to the humans getting weapons tech to match the Ori, yet the Asgard didn't use it themselves.  Boo to continuity problems...

Edited by SerHaHa

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1 hour ago, SerHaHa said:

The season 9 finale "Camelot" is a great episode.  My x worked with one of the actresses in that ep on another project, Katherine Isabelle (Valencia in that episode) when we lived in Vancouver before 2010.  One thing that always bothered me about that episode though is later the SG battleships get beam weapons from the Asgard, which give them an effective weapon vs the Ori ships, right?  There as an Asgard ship IN that battle in season 9, and all it did in the battle scenes was fly around as near as I can tell rewatching it, and shoot some sort of enegry pew pew weapons that weren't a continuous beam weapon.  Funny that the Asgard were the key to the humans getting weapons tech to match the Ori, yet the Asgard didn't use it themselves.  Boo to continuity problems...

The beam weapons were installed on the Odyssey in the very last episode, when the Asgard decided it was time to call it quits. They gave the humans everything they had, and destroyed themselves, ending their civilization, except for the rogue Asgard in the Pegasus galaxy. I believe Thor tells them the beam weapons were among their latest developments, so it's unlikely they would have had them at that battle. I think the Asgard specifically developed them after they saw what the Ori had for ships. Usually the Asgard were arrogant enough to think their present tech was good enough to deal with any new problem, hence the Replicators kicking butt.

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Ironic that about a year after the Asgard mass-suicided after failing to cure the cloning degeneration, SGA encounters the rogue Asgard who solved that problem

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42 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Ironic that about a year after the Asgard mass-suicided after failing to cure the cloning degeneration, SGA encounters the rogue Asgard who solved that problem

Did they though? They had managed to extend their lives, but I don't recall them finding a permanent solution. Their research got interrupted when the Wraith became the dominant power in the galaxy, and they had to hide on a lifeless planet.

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I suspect I won't see the show unless it airs in UK or via streaming option in UK eg Netflix/amazon. From what I've heard, I really don't want to support it financially.

4 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Did they though? They had managed to extend their lives, but I don't recall them finding a permanent solution. Their research got interrupted when the Wraith became the dominant power in the galaxy, and they had to hide on a lifeless planet.

My memory may well be terrible but I never felt like the Wraith were as big a threat as the show wanted us to think. Or was it just that the Wraith in Atlantis were mainly in suspended animation because they'd killed everything? If I had the 100s of hours spare I'd consider a rewatch. Could do with a Next gen style "essential episodes" for this as I'm sure 30-50% are probably disposable if being ruthless. Although some quick searches suggest such an idea is sacrilege!

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The Wraith went into hibernation because their food supply dropped significantly, and they had started infighting, which we see occurs in the series because of them waking up. The show was always purposefully vague about how strong the Wraith were to allow the writers to create new threats at need, but I think by the end of the series, the Wraith were severely weakened thanks to the war with the Replicators and the plagues Michael unleashed against them.

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If i was a judge, i'd decree that every movie, tv show, and video game that has since included an obvious rip-off of the stargates concept can now be used in any future Stargate productions as part of the expanded Stargate universe (crossover style, with no need to obtain permission).   That right there would fuel Stargate with 2 seasons' worth of "new" worlds to explore, and ratings would benefit from fans of the various other franchises tuning in to see those familiar worlds portrayed.

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Stargate Origins has finished its season. No idea if there will be more. But, even if plenty of fans were probably less that impressed by this, myself included, I do hope MGM decides to revitalize the universe with an actual serious show.

Spoiler

 

The last 3 episodes were more intense than what we got before, but still fairly fan-made looking. The plot ends up neatly tied up with the canon stuff, but in such a way to call it lazy writing - the surviving characters are made to forget everything, making this little better than "it was all a dream" trope, and makes you wonder why bother with this story at all. Granted, Catherine did receive some subliminal suggestions that further influence some of the events of the original story.

The best about this show is the character of Aset. A somewhat benevolent Goa'uld, she hates and fears Ra, and all of her actions, including the memory wipes she does on the main characters, are motivated by this. I was kinda hoping she would be revealed as a Tok'ra.

One sad little moment I liked at the end was when Ra brainswashes two characters, one of them the Egyptian soldier, making them in his personal guards. The Egyptian soldier is revealed to be the main guard with the Anubis helmet from the original movie. And and it's interesting that Ra prefers to use human warriors for his bodyguard, not Jaffa.

A few things that are still problematic with regards to the canon:

  • So Ra learns that the people of Earth have re-opened the gate, but chooses to do nothing about it for the next 56 years. I guess you can explain it as him showing typical Goa'uld arrogance
  • Catherine wrote the return address in her notebook, and while she may have forgotten what it means, I did not notice her losing the notebook; so you would think that, along with the Pa necklace, she would have given Daniel Jackson a notebook filled with weird symbols, just in case
  • I still don't understand why these Goa'uld had yellow eyes, not glowing eyes - need to do an online search for that

 

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