Kalbear Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: No don't get me wrong. Who better than someone who has has firsthand experience regarding this to comment on it. If I can ask, are you still enlisted? Or Reserve? Have you heard from any higher ups as to how this might affect your status? If that's too personal I understand. This is Patricia King's story, who is a currently transgender woman in the military. Other than her reassignment surgery being cancelled she doesn't have anything that has so far been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Kalbear said: This is Patricia King's story, who is a currently transgender woman in the military. Other than her reassignment surgery being cancelled she doesn't have anything that has so far been done. Holy Shit, that is inexcusable. 16 years of service and she has to worry about whether or not she's allowed to go to the restroom? Fucking ridiculous. If they're in a "wait and see" mode I don't understand how they can allow this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Holy Shit, that is inexcusable. 16 years of service and she has to worry about whether or not she's allowed to go to the restroom? Fucking ridiculous. If they're in a "wait and see" mode I don't understand how they can allow this shit. That is from 2015, before she was allowed. Now things are normal - or were, before two weeks ago. Now-now, she's not sure what's going to happen. I'm trying to find the broadcast NPR interview with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Just now, Kalbear said: That is from 2015, before she was allowed. Now things are normal - or were, before two weeks ago. Now-now, she's not sure what's going to happen. I'm trying to find the broadcast NPR interview with her. Ah cool, thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Okay let’s mix it up. Muddled as it may be. Ms. Manning https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/opinion/transgender-trump-chelsea-manning.html?mcubz=0 vs Ms. Jenner http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/caitlyn-jenner-fraud-fake-trans-ativist_us_59a440c9e4b0821444c4d683 I have not gone through military training. Family members have. People who cannot withstand the training are washed out. Females in combat ( can a 5’2” woman carry a 6’ man out of harm’s way)? Citations please. The problem with transgender in the military is where are they going to piss and sleep? It comes down to basics. It all comes back to personal responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Yeah, it's kind of like the Metropolitan Police Department that hires a former car thief to help set up trap cars and the like. I guess there are some examples of the "To Catch A Thief" stratagem that you could point to. Somehow I don't think that's what's going on here though. A man can hope....... But I agree, there's likely another reason, and it's likely nauseating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: Okay let’s mix it up. Muddled as it may be. Ms. Manning https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/opinion/transgender-trump-chelsea-manning.html?mcubz=0 vs Ms. Jenner http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/caitlyn-jenner-fraud-fake-trans-ativist_us_59a440c9e4b0821444c4d683 I have not gone through military training. Family members have. People who cannot withstand the training are washed out. Females in combat ( can a 5’2” woman carry a 6’ man out of harm’s way)? Citations please. The problem with transgender in the military is where are they going to piss and sleep? It comes down to basics. It all comes back to personal responsibility. This is not just muddled, it's gibberish. Are you complaining about women or about trans people? What does 'personal responsibility' have to do with physical standards, or pissing and sleeping for that matter? Seriously, are you drunk right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, mormont said: This is not just muddled, it's gibberish. Are you complaining about women or about trans people? What does 'personal responsibility' have to do with physical standards, or pissing and sleeping for that matter? Seriously, are you drunk right now? I dunna much appropriate your remarks. So you tell me how to solve the pissing and sleeping problem with transgenders who have not completed their transformation. Which head are you gonna use while aboard a sea going vessel. Get my drift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said: Which head are you gonna use while aboard a sea going vessel. Get my drift? Who gives a flying fuck? You're military. Trained to kill. You going to let a little thing like who shares your bathroom bother you? Aren't most heads single occupancy unisex at this point anyway? It's a petty concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: I dunna much appropriate your remarks. So you tell me how to solve the pissing and sleeping problem with transgenders who have not completed their transformation. Which head are you gonna use while aboard a sea going vessel. Get my drift? I get it. It was also looked into for an entire year between 2015 and 2016, and they found no issues whatsoever. None at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Yup. Why turn away people who are ready, willing, and able to serve? That's just stupid. But then... this is Trump seeking to score political points. Not really. At best that was a secondary reason. This had nothing to do with policy or ideology either. Yes, a few House Republicans lobbied him to roll back funding for gender reassignment surgeries in the military, but they didn't want this at all. No no no Scot, Trump's main goal was to hurt people, and he was willing to hurt a group of people he's said he doesn't have any issue with. That provides a lot of insight into what he's willing to do going forward. And that's scary AF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Who gives a flying fuck? You're military. Trained to kill. You going to let a little thing like who shares your bathroom bother you? Aren't most heads single occupancy unisex at this point anyway? It's a petty concern. Not all USA military are trained to kill. Yes people are trained in the use of firearms. If you can not comprehend personal space in a confined area that tells me you haven't been through the every prick and tit is the same routine. Tran-gender leaves open the classification that a person has or has not gone through the physical changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 The Internet of Hate After Charlottesville, Nazis, white supremacists, and the alt-right have become a lot less welcome on the web. So they’re building their own. https://slate.com/technology/2017/08/the-alt-right-wants-to-build-its-own-internet.html http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/08/trump-tries-to-make-tax-cuts-for-special-interests-populist.html Trump Tries to Make Tax Cuts for Special Interests Sound Populist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Yeah, it seems to me that this is pretty likely. If the issue is the price of reassignment surgery or some other potential financial pitfall, then they should address that, but a ban is disgusting. I can't imagine that any large percentage of military personnel support this policy. They've already calculated the price of medical care for trans soldiers. It's pitiful. They spend like 10x more (or something like that) on viagra. This was literally part of the study on these issues they just finished afaik. There is zero support for this whole thing beyond pure bigotry and the military, at an institutional level, just doesn't seem to want to go down that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 45 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: The problem with transgender in the military is where are they going to piss and sleep? It comes down to basics. If people actually get it that a trans person identifies with the sex that they were not born into and accepts them for who they are, then the question of sleeping arrangements and bathrooms becomes irrelevant. It's only a problem because too many people still think that a person with a penis who considers herself a woman is seen as a deviant and likely sexual predatory who just wants to cop a look at naked women / girls in bathrooms. But because that sort of prejudice exists, we have to endlessly talk about what bathrooms trans people are allowed to use. If there is a bathroom safety issue, then it's trans men getting jumped in the men's room. But saying that there needs to be restrictions on trans people for their own safety is a little bit like putting a curfew on women going out at night because they might be raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Not really. At best that was a secondary reason. This had nothing to do with policy or ideology either. Yes, a few House Republicans lobbied him to roll back funding for gender reassignment surgeries in the military, but they didn't want this at all. No no no Scot, Trump's main goal was to hurt people, and he was willing to hurt a group of people he's said he doesn't have any issue with. That provides a lot of insight into what he's willing to do going forward. And that's scary AF. Eh, I think that's reading too much into this. Some people asked Trump to do something aobut the issue. Fox News and Breitbart and the like too I'm sure have said some bad shit about the issue. And so he just went all in because he's too stupid to do anything any other way. The GOP members who are going "Too far dude!" are only saying that because they think it's too extreme to fly with the voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I get it. It was also looked into for an entire year between 2015 and 2016, and they found no issues whatsoever. None at all. Plus, you know, trans people have been serving for a long ass time now in the military. Clearly "readiness" is a load of bullshit, unless the US military has always been unready before this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 One has to wonder how long Tillerson is for this White House. He basically said that Trump is own his own. And he's not the only cabinet member to publicly criticize him. So have Mattis and Cohn. The general is safe, but I'm not so sure about the other two. These people (not just the three above, but his entire cabinet) must realize by now that they're on a sinking ship that will ruin their careers forever if they don't leave soon, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: One has to wonder how long Tillerson is for this White House. He basically said that Trump is own his own. And he's not the only cabinet member to publicly criticize him. So have Mattis and Cohn. The general is safe, but I'm not so sure about the other two. These people (not just the three above, but his entire cabinet) must realize by now that they're on a sinking ship that will ruin their careers forever if they don't leave soon, right? Tillerson can get a job as CEO of some shitty giant conglomerate about instantly, assuming he even cares any more. Cohn can go back to the private sector. Mattis probably is desperately hoping to make the world a better place as well as he can, and doesn't give a shit about future plans or what people think about him if he can nudge the world slightly better. He has a very clear idea of what the right thing to do is, a desire to do it, and will attempt to do it as well as he can within his own moral framework. The idea that this will ruin their careers is laughable, even in that framework. Bannon and Gorka aren't ruined. Spicer's book will sell out. Priebus will return to the swamp, happily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Not really. At best that was a secondary reason. This had nothing to do with policy or ideology either. Yes, a few House Republicans lobbied him to roll back funding for gender reassignment surgeries in the military, but they didn't want this at all. No no no Scot, Trump's main goal was to hurt people, and he was willing to hurt a group of people he's said he doesn't have any issue with. That provides a lot of insight into what he's willing to do going forward. And that's scary AF. Part of the "Party of Troll" platform for the Republicans. It is, as you say "scary as fuck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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