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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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I don't believe the AotD can be defeated by armies or dragons. The NK has an unlimited supply of army members he can continually replenish. The NK and WW's (not then wigts) are probably immune to dragon fire and I doubt that dragonglass will kill the NK (although it will kill the WW's). The only way to ultimately win is to destroy the NK and I believe Bran will be the ultimate hero here in finding the way to do so.

It will be a little ironic to see Daenerys men being attacked and destroyed by wigt Unsullied/Dothraki soldiers (along with Viserion) and having the country ravaged. Remember Daenerys got the Dothraki to pledge to her to “kill all my enemies and destroy their homes”. I guess what goes around comes around. Just another example of the savagery of war, even with good intentions.

Just another guess on my part but I believe it is possible we will find that Daenerys' invasion of Westeros with her dragons will turn out to be the immediate trigger for the NK's invasion. The NK, as a greenseer, probably foresaw that Bran, as the Three-Eyed-Raven, was the only significant threat to his being successful, so this is why Bran is a major target in his invasion. If Friki's spoiler is correct I believe that we will find out that the message found in the Wall was a warning that the NK would attack if he felt there was a significant threat to his continued existence. In line with this he has the same philosophy as Daenerys, as noted above. Daenerys represents fire, the NK ice. With the philosophy noted above both are equally potentially lethal to humankind in their extremes. This will culminate in the Dance of Dragons at KL between Daenerys and the NK. Both Dragons will die in the battle and the NK and Daenerys will both be significantly injured. Jon however, representing a balance of ice and fire (both can be beneficial to humankind with appropriate utilization), will battle and ultimately destroy the NK, probably with the utilization of Lightbringer, which he will obtain by thrusting his sword into the fiery heart of Melisandre. Daenerys will deliver a child and may or may not die from her battle injuries (depending on how D&D plan on ending her arc).  Combined with the execution of Tyrion either ending for Daenerys would be bittersweet, depending on how sweet you want to make it. 

Perhaps we will find out Tyrion's execution/death is the price that will have to be paid for Daenerys to give birth to a healthy child, not Viserion's death, as many have presumed. This actually would be more consistent with what happened surrounding Drogo's death circumstances. It ended up that Daenerys' child's death was the price paid to save Drogo, not his horse as initially thought. One perspective is that the price to be paid to save/allow a human's life should be another human's life, not an animal. 

Just some of my thoughts. Probably won't turn out this way. But probably as good a guess as any other, and might be more understandable to the majority of show viewers, rather than some highly complex abstract ending (though I don't have anything against such an ending if it does end up that way as long as it is well written). We shall see soon.

 

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18 minutes ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

I don't believe the AotD can be defeated by armies or dragons. The NK has an unlimited supply of army members he can continually replenish. The NK and WW's (not then wigts) are probably immune to dragon fire and I doubt that dragonglass will kill the NK (although it will kill the WW's). The only way to ultimately win is to destroy the NK and I believe Bran will be the ultimate hero here in finding the way to do so.

It will be a little ironic to see Daenerys men being attacked and destroyed by wigt Unsullied/Dothraki soldiers (along with Viserion) and having the country ravaged. Remember Daenerys got the Dothraki to pledge to her to “kill all my enemies and destroy their homes”. I guess what goes around comes around. Just another example of the savagery of war, even with good intentions.

Just another guess on my part but I believe it is possible we will find that Daenerys' invasion of Westeros with her dragons will turn out to be the immediate trigger for the NK's invasion. The NK, as a greenseer, probably foresaw that Bran, as the Three-Eyed-Raven, was the only significant threat to his being successful, so this is why Bran is a major target in his invasion. If Friki's spoiler is correct I believe that we will find out that the message found in the Wall was a warning that the NK would attack if he felt there was a significant threat to his continued existence. In line with this he has the same philosophy as Daenerys, as noted above. Daenerys represents fire, the NK ice. With the philosophy noted above both are equally potentially lethal to humankind in their extremes. This will culminate in the Dance of Dragons at KL between Daenerys and the NK. Both Dragons will die in the battle and the NK and Daenerys will both be significantly injured. Jon however, representing a balance of ice and fire (both can be beneficial to humankind with appropriate utilization), will battle and ultimately destroy the NK, probably with the utilization of Lightbringer, which he will obtain by thrusting his sword into the fiery heart of Melisandre. Daenerys will deliver a child and may or may not die from her battle injuries (depending on how D&D plan on ending her arc).  Combined with the execution of Tyrion either ending for Daenerys would be bittersweet, depending on how sweet you want to make it. 

Perhaps we will find out Tyrion's execution/death is the price that will have to be paid for Daenerys to give birth to a healthy child, not Viserion's death, as many have presumed. This actually would be more consistent with what happened surrounding Drogo's death circumstances. It ended up that Daenerys' child's death was the price paid to save Drogo, not his horse as initially thought. One perspective is that the price to be paid to save/allow a human's life should be another human's life, not an animal. 

Just some of my thoughts. Probably won't turn out this way. But probably as good a guess as any other, and might be more understandable to the majority of show viewers, rather than some highly complex abstract ending (though I don't have anything against such an ending if it does end up that way as long as it is well written). We shall see soon.

 

Now this is reasonable.

A couple questions I would like to ask. We saw a bunch of wights fall when the WW that created/resurrected (not sure of the nomenclature). Is it possible, that each WW (including the NK) has a maximum number of wights it can control? And if so, killing most of the WW's should significantly decrease the NK's forces. Not sure on this, but a possibility. I do believe that Bran is key to the NK's death though. 

 

Not sure on Dany being the key to all this, The first possible moment I could see being a "key" would be the hatching of the dragon eggs. And the NK's army was well underway in it's preparation to attack long before this. From what I can see from "greenseeing" it is the ability to see the present and the past, I have seen no reference to seeing the future. It's not a major point, but something interesting to discuss. And remember, there is no reason for the NK to even know about dragons, unless he can plug into wierwood net himself. I think the comet was most likely the "key". It's a minor point though. 

 

Jon however, representing a balance of ice and fire (both can be beneficial to humankind with appropriate utilization), will battle and ultimately destroy the NK, probably with the utilization of Lightbringer, which he will obtain by thrusting his sword into the fiery heart of Melisandre. Daenerys will deliver a child and may or may not die from her battle injuries (depending on how D&D plan on ending her arc).  Combined with the execution of Tyrion either ending for Daenerys would be bittersweet, depending on how sweet you want to make it. 

This is were we part ways. First, what I agree with. I do think Mel will have a huge part to play in the defeat of the WW's. I am not so sure it happens forging "lightbringer". I am not so sure lightbringer is actually a physical sword. And if it was, wouldn't Jon need to plunge it into the heart of someone he loved? (well hey, here is hoping he does love Sansa ;) )

I think Dany is more likely to die during childbirth, but maybe she is in childbirth do to a wound? 

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Alright I'm going to don the biggest tinfoil hat here, but hear me out. 

What if the 3 eyed raven was another creation by the children to finish the job that the WW/Night King could not? 

Night King is created, and driven back. Children try for plan 2 - create a being which can alter the fabric of time and essentially reset the world/bring back all the weir wood trees/ alter the course of the first men such that the CotF thrive in the future. Maybe the old 3ER could not accomplish this but they were waiting for someone who could (Bran). If Bran was able to warg into Hodor and essentially change his entire life from the future then what's stopping him from trying again or doing it on a much larger scale with others. The old 3ER tells him that the ink is dry and he cant change fate but that's obviously a lie since as proven by the Hodor paradox and not to mention Ned literally turning around at the tower of joy when he hears him. 

Maybe the night king only wants the 3ER dead so that the timeline can be in peace and undisturbed. 

Ok taking off the tinfoil hat now. 

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26 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Third WTF imo is wight dragon.

An ice dragon - isnt it a wight?

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4 minutes ago, Every Last Chicken said:

Alright I'm going to don the biggest tinfoil hat here, but hear me out. 

What if the 3 eyed raven was another creation by the children to finish the job that the WW/Night King could not? 

Night King is created, and driven back. Children try for plan 2 - create a being which can alter the fabric of time and essentially reset the world/bring back all the weir wood trees/ alter the course of the first men such that the CotF thrive in the future. Maybe the old 3ER could not accomplish this but they were waiting for someone who could (Bran). If Bran was able to warg into Hodor and essentially change his entire life from the future then what's stopping him from trying again or doing it on a much larger scale with others. The old 3ER tells him that the ink is dry and he cant change fate but that's obviously a lie since as proven by the Hodor paradox and not to mention Ned literally turning around at the tower of joy when he hears him. 

Maybe the night king only wants the 3ER dead so that the timeline can be in peace and undisturbed. 

Ok taking off the tinfoil hat now. 

It fits well with my tinfoil, and that of others, that Bran wargs into the NK as his formation.

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Posted (edited)

New interview: “Some people will be satisfied, and others..not so much.” Sophie and Maisie say that last part in unison.

This fits with what she's said previously: "a lot of fans will be disappointed and a lot of fans will be over the moon."

It also fits with what Bauer, the VFX supervisor, has said “I think the whole series has aimed toward this. I obviously can’t say what it is. I think there will be divisions because people have grown to identify and like and hate various characters, so everybody has their version of how they want it to end based on those things, but looking at it objectively, I think the way it ends is the way it must end, so I’m just going to leave it at that.”

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Every Last Chicken said:

Alright I'm going to don the biggest tinfoil hat here, but hear me out. 

What if the 3 eyed raven was another creation by the children to finish the job that the WW/Night King could not? 

Night King is created, and driven back. Children try for plan 2 - create a being which can alter the fabric of time and essentially reset the world/bring back all the weir wood trees/ alter the course of the first men such that the CotF thrive in the future. Maybe the old 3ER could not accomplish this but they were waiting for someone who could (Bran). If Bran was able to warg into Hodor and essentially change his entire life from the future then what's stopping him from trying again or doing it on a much larger scale with others. The old 3ER tells him that the ink is dry and he cant change fate but that's obviously a lie since as proven by the Hodor paradox and not to mention Ned literally turning around at the tower of joy when he hears him. 

Maybe the night king only wants the 3ER dead so that the timeline can be in peace and undisturbed. 

Ok taking off the tinfoil hat now. 

Not sure that works though, isn't the three eyed crow Brynden Rivers? Are you saying the three eyed crow was created long after the long night? 

 

I am so hoping this whole thing isn't resolved by some sort of time travel paradox, that is so old and tired. 

Edited by Error-504

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3 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Not sure that works though, isn't the three eyed crow Brynden Rivers? Are you saying the three eyed crow was created long after the long night? 

 

I am so hoping this whole thing isn't resolved by some sort of time travel paradox, that is so old and tired. 

I'm speculating that before Bloodraven there was another 3ER, and perhaps a few more before him, similar to a line of succession to become this entity. 

I'm not really a fan of the time paradox either, which is why I'd rather see the night king kill Bran (if that is who he's truly after) and maybe afterwards just pack up and leave back to the north as if it were Mission Accomplished. That would at least make me feel like he has a larger purpose and motivation than simply "kill the living!"

Who knows though. I'm just tossing out speculation since I'm bored and stir crazy for the next two weeks to pass =]

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14 minutes ago, Every Last Chicken said:

I'm speculating that before Bloodraven there was another 3ER, and perhaps a few more before him, similar to a line of succession to become this entity. 

I'm not really a fan of the time paradox either, which is why I'd rather see the night king kill Bran (if that is who he's truly after) and maybe afterwards just pack up and leave back to the north as if it were Mission Accomplished. That would at least make me feel like he has a larger purpose and motivation than simply "kill the living!"

Who knows though. I'm just tossing out speculation since I'm bored and stir crazy for the next two weeks to pass =]

I see, maybe, but there has been no mention of "other bloodravens" in the show or the books. If Bran were to die, which is possible, I think the NK would have to die as well. Otherwise, who rebuilds the Wall or WF? No, if the NK is dead, then there is no reason for the Wall, and WF could just be built like any other city (if rebuilt at all). 

Toss out some speculation on the importance of the crypts, for some reason they do not get talked about enough. 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Third WTF imo is wight dragon.

No, D&D said the third WTF moment will be at the end of the last season.

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6 minutes ago, T and A said:

No, D&D said the third WTF moment will be at the end of the last season.

Gotcha. Didn't know that, and was thinking about Martin saying Dany would find helpful clues in F&B.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Gotcha. Didn't know that, and was thinking about Martin saying Dany would find helpful clues in F&B.

Martin said that? Wow. I didn't knew about that ^_^

But to be honest, the WTF moments were until now, not really game changers. They were unexpected (definitively the Hodor thing, I never even heard that theory anywhere and we discuss those damn books for decades now) yes, but nothing that put the plot to a complete different direction. If the leaks are true  though - and I hope not - Tyrions betrayel is a massive WTF.

Edited by T and A

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The name Winterfell can mean « fallen by winter ». Could be it was named as such by someone who knew it would eventually be fallen by winter/the Others.

But there must always be a Stark in Winterfell.

If Winterfell is now permanently snowed in like what used to be north of the wall, which Stark will rule in Winterfell?

Jon, King beyond the new wall (further south), along with the freefolk, brought back at the end of story by Theon on his ships as a way to redeem himself. /guess

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Every Last Chicken said:

Welp there goes the neighborhood...

Looked like Lyanna's feather falling down on a broken wheel and long claw buried in the snow. 

Pretty ominous.

Wow, this Teaser is goooood. It really gives you chills. To think that this is just a TV Show and not a Hollywood Blockbuster...damn...

Those were all the things I noticed:

Tyrion’s hand of the queen 

Aryas "Needle"

Lyanna’s feather from her tomb

Brans wheelchair (broken)

Jaime’s golden Hand

Longclaw burried in snow. (This could be a big hint. Maybe Longclaw is burried in Snow?)

I think this is the best they have done so far, maybe ever. It is so symbolic, without telling anything. I like it. 

Edited by T and A

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34 minutes ago, T and A said:

Wow, this Teaser is goooood. It really gives you chills. To think that this is just a TV Show and not a Hollywood Blockbuster...damn...

Those were all the things I noticed:

Tyrion’s hand of the queen 

Aryas "Needle"

Lyanna’s feather from her tomb

Brans wheelchair (broken)

Jaime’s golden Hand

Longclaw burried in snow. (This could be a big hint. Maybe Longclaw is burried in Snow?)

I think this is the best they have done so far, maybe ever. It is so symbolic, without telling anything. I like it. 

Could you make out what was hiding on the left side of the screen at the 13 second mark? Looked like the side profile of a wolf's face. 

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8 minutes ago, Every Last Chicken said:

Could you make out what was hiding on the left side of the screen at the 13 second mark? Looked like the side profile of a wolf's face. 

I thought it was a wolf statue.  

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