Lady Anna Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, divica said: And while mel's power comes from her religion we know that not all red priests have her powers. We will eventually need a magical system for the red priests powers. Yes, we'll know more about her religion. But I was just saying that her having the powers that she has isn't unusual given that she is by design a magical character like Bran. So at least for me anything that she does or doesn't do, unless it's a deus ex machina or something really improbable, does not go beyond the design of the character. Anyway I guess I'm talking more in a meta-level and character-building way. (And I just realized it was another user who brought up the question about her physiology). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dragon Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Melisandre is there at the wall to raise Jon with fire so he and Daenerys can rule together and save Westeros. Magic is dying from the world anyway so it won't matter for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said: Melisandre is there at the wall to raise Jon with fire so he and Daenerys can rule together and save Westeros. Magic is dying from the world anyway so it won't matter for long. Dany and Jon are both going to die. They are never going to marry or rule together. Unless you are talking about the show. The only wolf that will survive is Sansa and she'll marry Aegon, the prince she was promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dragon Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, LynnS said: Dany and Jon are both going to die. They are never going to marry or rule together. Unless you are talking about the show. The only wolf that will survive is Sansa and she'll marry Aegon, the prince she was promised. No I don't watch the show. I mean, I have seen a few episodes when at a friends house but I don't like the show. If I showed up to class with that type of writing, then my instructors would flunk me. Jon might die again, but Daenerys has been set up to unify Westeros and save everyone. She is in Merreen learning to rule. Daenerys and Jon are so obvious to be together and the last book showed it even more. Sansa will marry Aegon? Wow, that is crazy and I have not heard that before. Didn't Sansa lose her wolf because that was a hint she is going to die? That is what I always thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said: No I don't watch the show. I mean, I have seen a few episodes when at a friends house but I don't like the show. If I showed up to class with that type of writing, then my instructors would flunk me. LOL! 18 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said: Jon might die again, but Daenerys has been set up to unify Westeros and save everyone. She is in Merreen learning to rule. Daenerys and Jon are so obvious to be together and the last book showed it even more. I don't think this is the fire and ice combination that people think it is. Jon and Dany will have terrible forces to deal with and they ultimately have to bring the imbalance of magic power to an end and I think it will involve sacrificing their own lives. 20 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said: Sansa will marry Aegon? Wow, that is crazy and I have not heard that before. Didn't Sansa lose her wolf because that was a hint she is going to die? That is what I always thought. Everybody thinks Aegon is fAegon or at least some people do because it conflicts with the old idea that Jon is the pwip. There is a reason that Rhaegar names Aegon the pwip rather than himself. He's called Aegon after Aegon the Conqueror who brought peace, prosperity and justice to the realm. This is exactly the education that fAegon has been receiving from JonCon and Co. At some point Dany is going to confront her ambitions to be Queen of Westeros and the existence of Aegon another relation. Like Stannis, Dany is meant to play a part in the larger war rather than the war for the Iron Throne. In the mean time, she will have a lot to overcome in Essos before she goes anywhere else. Euron and the minions of the night are conspiring against her. That's a big threat. Sansa is a survivor; she doesn't have a direwolf because she will not need a second life. in the end Aegon will be her Prince of Dragonflies; she was promised she would marry a prince and Joffrey wasn't it. The song of ice and fire isn't finished until the end of the story, the scouring of the shire ending Martin intends to write. So there won't be a joining of bloodlines, a marriage between Stark and Targaryen, until the end. Tyrion will put things to right and make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Anna Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, LynnS said: Dany and Jon are both going to die. They are never going to marry or rule together. Unless you are talking about the show. The only wolf that will survive is Sansa and she'll marry Aegon, the prince she was promised. You write these things with such certainty I think you're bound to be disappointed when you actually get to read the next books.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Lady Anna said: You write these things with such certainty I think you're bound to be disappointed when you actually get to read the next books.... I've been studying these books for years and I still don't know how things will turn out. I'm pretty sure that nobody has it all figured out. Don't be a smarty pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Lady Dacey said: The wights certainly can, they attacked LC Mormont at Castle Black after all, and the castle is on the south side of the wall. Good points about age above! And the wights were still "dead" when they were brought to CB, they only rose on the south side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Or they could have climbed over or walked around the wall, or they could have silently waited for the black brothers to open the gates and walked with them, but it is warded with the same magic that keeps the wights out of the children's cave, so they had to be dragged through the tunnel. I don t think dead bodies without much coordination would be able to climb the Wall. Do you think the magic of the Wall extends into the ocean? Do you remember if it is said that the cave is warded the same way as the Wall? Because if the magic aplied on the Wall is aplied in every inch of the cave is diferent from the magic being a barrier similar to the Wall. Because if it is a barrier they could throw dead bodies through the barrier and then reanimate them when they are inside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Good points about age above! And the wights were still "dead" when they were brought to CB, they only rose on the south side. Then there is Othor's hand that Thorne takes south as evidence but eventually it rots and becomes inanimate. So the cold preserves and the wights can't withstand warmer temperatures. It does seem to be the bones that keep the wights animate, even if a body part is separated from the body as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Good points about age above! And the wights were still "dead" when they were brought to CB, they only rose on the south side. Were they still dead or faking being dead? Weren t some NW brothers talking about the corpses were taking too long to decompose (this might be my imagination) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, LynnS said: Then there is Othor's hand that Thorne takes south as evidence but eventually it rots and becomes inanimate. So the cold preserves and the wights can't withstand warmer temperatures. It does seem to be the bones that keep the wights animate, even if a body part is separated from the body as a whole. what controls the movement of a hand separated from the body? Do wight's cut off limbs still move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, divica said: Were they still dead or faking being dead? Weren t some NW brothers talking about the corpses were taking too long to decompose (this might be my imagination) Yes. you're right about that. Sam notices that the body don't smell of decay and there is no decomposition. Even though their eyes are blue like the wights they don't get up and move around until it's dark and they are not being guarded. The whole things seems like a set-up. The wights are left near the grove of nine trees where they are 'found' and taken back to Castle Black. Then Othor attempts to kill Mormont. That implies a certain intelligence and planning. It's not a random attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, divica said: what controls the movement of a hand separated from the body? Do wight's cut off limbs still move? That's the big question. Yes, Jon describes Othor's hand wriggling like a snake. Quote A Game of Thrones - Jon VII He felt something scrabble at his ankle. Black fingers clawed at his calf. The arm was crawling up his leg, ripping at wool and flesh. Shouting with revulsion, Jon pried the fingers off his leg with the point of his sword and flipped the thing away. It lay writhing, fingers opening and closing. The corpse lurched forward. There was no blood. One-armed, face cut near in half, it seemed to feel nothing. Jon held the longsword before him. "Stay away!" he commanded, his voice gone shrill. "Corn," screamed the raven, "corn, corn." The severed arm was wriggling out of its torn sleeve, a pale snake with a black five-fingered head. Ghost pounced and got it between his teeth. Finger bones crunched. Jon hacked at the corpse's neck, felt the steel bite deep and hard. In the prologue of DwD, Thistle is wightified and her eyes are missing and yet, she can 'see' Varamyr: Quote A Dance with Dragons - Prologue The things below moved, but did not live. One by one, they raised their heads toward the three wolves on the hill. The last to look was the thing that had been Thistle. She wore wool and fur and leather, and over that she wore a coat of hoarfrost that crackled when she moved and glistened in the moonlight. Pale pink icicles hung from her fingertips, ten long knives of frozen blood. And in the pits where her eyes had been, a pale blue light was flickering, lending her coarse features an eerie beauty they had never known in life. She sees me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, LynnS said: Yes. you're right about that. Sam notices that the body don't smell of decay and there is no decomposition. Even though their eyes are blue like the wights they don't get up and move around until it's dark and they are not being guarded. The whole things seems like a set-up. The wights are left near the grove of nine trees where they are 'found' and taken back to Castle Black. Then Othor attempts to kill Mormont. That implies a certain intelligence and planning. It's not a random attack. Did they have blue eyes when they were found? Because this sounds incredibly important to know if the wights/others can t get through the Wall or if their magic can t get through the Wall if they are on its northern side. Another interesting thing to think about is if the wights on the northern side have a hive mentality while the wights on the Southern side would be more independent because their conection to the others/big other is cut off. And how much can the others control/influence a wight on the Southern side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, LynnS said: That's the big question. Yes, Jon describes Othor's hand wriggling like a snake. In the prologue of DwD, Thistle is wightified and her eyes are missing and yet, she can 'see' Varamyr: creeeeepyyy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, divica said: Did they have blue eyes when they were found? yes Quote A Game of Thrones - Jon VII "Othor," announced Ser Jaremy Rykker, "beyond a doubt. And this one was Jafer Flowers." He turned the corpse over with his foot, and the dead white face stared up at the overcast sky with blue, blue eyes. "They were Ben Stark's men, both of them." The Wall stops them otherwise they would have crossed by now. At least they can't cross on their own. They have to be brought across not unlike Davos taking Melisandre across the barriers imposed on her at Storm's end. 10 minutes ago, divica said: Another interesting thing to think about is if the wights on the northern side have a hive mentality while the wights on the Southern side would be more independent because their conection to the others/big other is cut off. And how much can the others control/influence a wight on the Southern side? I've wondered about this as well. Certainly the wights seem to act in unison when they all turn and stare at Varamyr. I think they react to the smell of warm blood. I've questioned how Small Paul managed to track down Sam and Gilly. She says they are attracted to life and newborns stink of life. So while I think it's possible for them to be controlled (Othor and Jafr) ; it sees that they act automatically in other ways. The wights in front of the cave of greenseer for example are inanimate until the sun goes down. Coldhands is anxious to get Bran to the cave before the sun goes down. Then they react to the life or blood that they smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, divica said: creeeeepyyy LOL! I know right. Cutting up a wight just compounds the problem. Talk about scaring your kids. Their feet would never hit the ground from their bed to the bathroom at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 37 minutes ago, divica said: what controls the movement of a hand separated from the body? Do wight's cut off limbs still move? Im on my phone and only have a second, but, when Bran is im Bloodraven cave and their are wighs lurking on the other side of the ward (get it? Ward), and Summer is eating that wight hand, that is when Bran makes the realization that only when summer crack the bone and eat (?) the marrow did the eight “remember” it was dead. That may be a big bit of info for later in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 51 minutes ago, LynnS said: Then there is Othor's hand that Thorne takes south as evidence but eventually it rots and becomes inanimate. So the cold preserves and the wights can't withstand warmer temperatures. It does seem to be the bones that keep the wights animate, even if a body part is separated from the body as a whole. Yeah, that's my take as well. ADwD, Bran III “The moon was a crescent, thin and sharp as the blade of a knife. Summer dug up a severed arm, black and covered with hoarfrost, its fingers opening and closing as it pulled itself across the frozen snow. There was still enough meat on it to fill his empty belly, and after that was done he cracked the arm bones for the marrow. Only then did the arm remember it was dead.” ETA: replied to LynnS before reading the other posts. @The Fattest Leech, I think you are referring to the passage I just quoted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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