Sansa and Cognitive Dissonance

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

14 hours ago, Springwatch said:

I never properly answered this, but I've finally sorted my ideas out. I think there are 3 angles here:

• The (probable) mental control the Others have over the wights, as we have discussed. The experiences of Thistle and Hodor under mental control (basically mind rape). Sansa's outlook turning towards the North, where she will meet these things.
• The snow castle Sansa makes with Petyr has been analysed for meaning many times. I suspect it doesn't foreshadow the rebuilding of Winterfell, for practical reasons. I think it can represent the building of Sansa's mind into a fortress, which fits nicely with a number of quotes ("You hide behind courtesy as if it were a castle wall."; 'come-into-my-castle' which is a game for highborn children 'to teach them courtesy, heraldry, and a thing or two about their lord father's friends and foes'; and of course, "Come, wife, time to smash your portcullis. I want to play come-into-the-castle."
• GRRM's habit of taking the seeds of ideas from books he likes. The quotes I've been searching for come from Frank Herbert's book 'Children of Dune'. GRRM considers Frank Herbert one of the greats of SF and fantasy, as stated in this article from his website (1986):

  Dune is a great series, so I'll continue in spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Dune is set in a universe where extraordinary mental powers exist. One is 'truthsay' - the ability to know without fail when someone lies. (I'm reminded of the House of Black and White here). Truthsayers are employed by all major powers.

The 'children' of the title are young twins, heirs to an emperor. The boy, Leto, who has limited powers to tell the future, knows he is being hunted to death and cannot escape. So he makes a plan with his sister Ghanima to fake his own death, while she achieves the unprecedented feat of brainwashing herself to believe it so completely that she can end the hunt by testifying to the death in front of a truthsayer.

Here's a quote from Leto, early in the book:

This reminds me a bit of Hodor in his cave.

Another likely parallel from Dune is the idea of possession: a gifted person like Ghanima and her brother and aunt Alia are in constant danger of being overwhelmed by the persona of one of their ancestors - overwhelmed and taken over, and more or less operated as a puppet (this reminds me a lot of Thistle and Hodor).

When Ghanima comes out of her long period of self-deception, she finds that the brainwashing has left her with a defense against possession. This, I suspect, is the inspiration for Arya and Sansa learning to live a lie.

(I can't pass by the fairly startling appearance of 'Arry' and 'Arya' in the first paragraph, which is a good enough reason to play close attention to this scene.)

 

Very interesting, I think there can be duel interpretation of the snow castle. Re-building in a literal sense. ie: LF helps her re-build WF. And a metaphorical one about her building up her mental walls. I think the quotes all have duel or even multiple interpretations. And that one doesn't rule out the rest. The snow castle scene is absolutely foreshadowing for LF being killed by Sansa at WF. It is also a good little tie in to her building walls around herself  using WF/stark/snow as her source of strength from ASOS onwards. She gives herself pep talks about who she is and these keep her from giving up or from trusting LF too much. 

I'll definitely keep my eye out for anything else which might relate to this idea in future. 

 

[Azarial]

Reading this thread, and one other Sansa thread has lead me to have a thought about what might be happening with her and why she appears to have different and distinct mentalities. I see the thought of Lady skin changing her, or them merging and agree this could be a factor, but I suspect something else is also at play.

We see all the Starks dealing with taking on different identities in different ways, from becoming their wolf like Rickon, to becoming a tree like Bran, to taking on the identities of dead people with Arya, to becoming a member of various social groups no matter how different they are from himself with Jon. With Sansa I think she takes on the identity of whomever she is most associated with. So absorbing their traits to an extent. This is why at Winterfell she seemed more Tully, or a southron lady as her biggest influence was her mother, then her septa. On the road she had a bit of an identity crisis where she could either become more like her father and sister or more like Cersei and Joffery, and we see her take on their dishonesty. The more she was isolated from her family, Arya always practicing her water dancing and her father being busy with his duties, the more she absorbed the traits of those her were around her. The less likeable of the Lanisters. We then see her become more defiant and compassionate to those not in a position of power as she begins spending more time with the Hound,Tyrion and as a result of this Dontos. 

I don't think this is an intentional mimicry, I think it's a form of skin changing. It lets her blend into her surrounding environment and this is how she has been able to adapt and survive. I also think this is why many readers struggle to identify with her, as who she is and what she stands for is muddy as it changes with the company she keeps. That said, if this is what is happening it makes her development much more interesting and I can see her using this to win people over and manipulate them, like we see with Robert in the Vale. Her knowing what he needs intuitively and even absorbing some of his discomfort with the singing, even though we all know she loved singing while at Winterfell.

I think the first time we have seen her do this with any intention was creating her bastard identity based on Jon. I think this is why there is the ghost wolf howl heard on the mountain. She was connecting to him through Ghost, similar to what Jon and Bran did in the past but in a way that is special just to her. She is deliberately absorbing some of his traits.

Anyway, just a theory. But I feel like it fits, and would mean that she is much more Starkish than many readers realize. I also think the part about her getting strength from Winterfell may be a hint toward this, as there are all the dead Starks, and the blood used to feed the heart tree for her to draw from. Maybe by the end she will be the Starkiest of the Starks, drawing power from Winterfell and all the Starks of the past.

[Varysblackfyre321]

On May 7, 2018 at 11:17 AM, John Suburbs said:

True, unless there is a difference between poison and a mortal wound like a lance through the chest or a sword cut from clavicle to breastbone, although I recall that Beric was hanged at some point, as well. But who's to say he ever actually died after his first resurrection. Mayhaps what Beric describes as "brought me back" was simply the healing of his wounds and the end of his shock from trauma.

Another interesting idea. Perhaps the reason reason Beric doesn't repeat having seen an afterlife after he died-perhaps he never died out in the first place. I always suspected it was because there is no after life to go to and  the gods aren't real or at the very least care. 

[Springwatch]

On 5/9/2018 at 3:09 AM, Azarial said:

We see all the Starks dealing with taking on different identities in different ways, from becoming their wolf like Rickon, to becoming a tree like Bran, to taking on the identities of dead people with Arya, to becoming a member of various social groups no matter how different they are from himself with Jon. With Sansa I think she takes on the identity of whomever she is most associated with. So absorbing their traits to an extent....

A psychic chameleon: it's an interesting idea. Although, I'd say she learnt to lie mainly from the Hound, and later from Dontos and Littlefinger. That could be both conscious learning and mirroring (the pretty bird, reciting the words they taught her). Her compassion is her own, learned from her family (there's no compassion to learn from in KL). The core Stark values remain.

I'm not sure what she's learning from the Lannisters. Early on, she was trying to copy an idealised version of royalty; later, she hated them. But I do believe her time with Cersei was something of an education (to my way of thinking, her lessons on the high harp with Lady Leonette are a sort of metaphor for lessons in court intrigue with the Lady Lion herself).

On 5/9/2018 at 3:09 AM, Azarial said:

I don't think this is an intentional mimicry, I think it's a form of skin changing. It lets her blend into her surrounding environment and this is how she has been able to adapt and survive. I also think this is why many readers struggle to identify with her, as who she is and what she stands for is muddy as it changes with the company she keeps....

Muddy, yes, because she's learning to lie in her thoughts; so she's lying to us also. And lots more lying to do yet...

[Springwatch]

On 5/8/2018 at 11:00 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Very interesting, I think there can be duel interpretation of the snow castle. Re-building in a literal sense. ie: LF helps her re-build WF. And a metaphorical one about her building up her mental walls. I think the quotes all have duel or even multiple interpretations. And that one doesn't rule out the rest. The snow castle scene is absolutely foreshadowing for LF being killed by Sansa at WF. It is also a good little tie in to her building walls around herself  using WF/stark/snow as her source of strength from ASOS onwards. She gives herself pep talks about who she is and these keep her from giving up or from trusting LF too much. 

I'll definitely keep my eye out for anything else which might relate to this idea in future.

I totally agree about double meanings and multi-layered metaphors - it's clever stuff.

Snow castle as mind-of-Sansa is an uncomfortable theory, because of course it gets invaded by the titan and smashed by the giant. The only hopeful sign is the example of Maegor's Holdfast, a castle within a castle. If it happens, I think it will be in the last book - I wonder if I'll remember the idea that long...

[Springwatch]

On 5/6/2018 at 6:12 PM, Ygrain said:

It's not just Hodor, Summer is unwilling to enter the crypts, as well, though he eventually does. And when Bran's soul is returning to the crypts, he doesn't like it, either (dead and black).

Bran thinks of riding Dancer down there, but realises the steps are too narrow. I think there's a hint of the Last Hero here, when his old friends have failed him.

I've been thinking about networks. Hodor, Summer, and even Dancer, are highly attuned to Bran. They might pick up on his emotions almost immediately - that's one 'network'. And then the wolves 'know' things - perhaps they are attuned to the weirnet, or the 3-eyed crow, or perhaps they can sense the spirits trapped in the crypts (and what are they attuned to? Can they sense the death of Ned?). But anyway, the wolves only howled to mark Ned's passing when the raven arrived. I like the idea that the raven itself was one of the gifted ones, perhaps even with the spirit of a Child - and it knew and communicated the bad news.

[Springwatch]

On 4/30/2018 at 10:55 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So how long before Alayne becomes Durden?

LOL, I was thinking 'Dernhelm' (still on Lord of the Rings).

If Durden means a total personality transplant, I don't think it's going to happen. She might go a long way, though.

[Azarial]

23 hours ago, Springwatch said:

That could be both conscious learning and mirroring (the pretty bird, reciting the words they taught her). Her compassion is her own, learned from her family (there's no compassion to learn from in Kings Landing)

Muddy, yes, because she's learning to lie in her thoughts; so she's lying to us also. And lots more lying to do yet...

See that is one of the things that makes me think it is related to warging, since a bird reciting words is how we are told ravens used to deliver messages, so this could be a clue (or not). Like I said it was a random thought and I would need to do a re-read to make it a theory. That said when you see someone warg they take on traits, but don't lose themselves in the process, so I agree with the compassion bit 100%, but don't see it as a point against her absorbing traits from others.

I think the thing that really made me think this was what I remember of her thoughts on the bridge with Jeoffery and the Hound, and when she is near Jeoffery she is thinking of pushing him, understandable don't get me wrong, tinged with her lack of worry of her going over with him (this is a bit muddy, could be despair or his lack of concern for her) but when the Hound steps between and touches her, her whole mindset changed. She thinks the moment had passed, but for most people the moment wouldn't pass that quick, but maybe she's just really forgiving. 

Yes, she is learning to lie in her thoughts, and that does make it hard to know what's going on as self awareness doesn't seem to be a Stark trait.

Either way, just a random thought that started with wondering if she warged the old dog at the Fingers combined with the absorbing some Lady traits. Although I think I need to do a Sansa re-read just to see, as I've always just been neutral on her so haven't delved to deep into her chapters yet. That's why I'm reading threads on her, to learn more from those who are deeply invested in her character. But looking for things she learned directly vrs things she seems to pick up unknowing could be interesting, as I suspect it's a combination. 

[The Ned's Little Girl]

2 hours ago, Azarial said:

Although I think I need to do a Sansa re-read just to see, as I've always just been neutral on her so haven't delved to deep into her chapters yet. That's why I'm reading threads on her, to learn more from those who are deeply invested in her character. 

If you're ready for a deep dive and haven't yet read the "From Pawn To Player" threads on Sansa, that's the place to go! 

They start here:

 

 

[Azarial]

22 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

If you're ready for a deep dive and haven't yet read the "From Pawn To Player" threads on Sansa, that's the place to go! 

Thanks! I'd heard it mentioned in other threads, but haven't read it yet  and since I'm almost done reading Dance for the 5th time lol doing an end game clue read, this is a good time to read this to find other things to look for when I do a Sansa re-read.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

On 5/10/2018 at 9:19 PM, Springwatch said:

I totally agree about double meanings and multi-layered metaphors - it's clever stuff.

Snow castle as mind-of-Sansa is an uncomfortable theory, because of course it gets invaded by the titan and smashed by the giant. The only hopeful sign is the example of Maegor's Holdfast, a castle within a castle. If it happens, I think it will be in the last book - I wonder if I'll remember the idea that long...

Uncomfortable yes, but ultimately she defeats the invading giant and tears his head off before triumphantly mounting it on a spike above her gate house. 

She is sort of doing this mentally  already. She's learning to lie inside so that the lies are convincing to others. It's a lie within a lie or walls within walls. As the lies we are talking about are one that protect her. The persona of Allayne protects her from Cersei's huntsmen; to borrow a bit of snow white  imagary.  So the lies she tells herself inside are walls to protect her. Like a castle within a castle. She holds within those walls the truth though, she hasn't become lost in the lies/walls. We read repeatedly her conscious reminding her who she really is.  And of course her entire driving force is to get WF back and return north where she can shed the walls and use the strength WF gives her to be herself once more. Safely. 

LF as the titan or giant; because he is both and both are one. Invades the castle nonchalantly. He strides over the walls. And we get the reinforcement of him as the Titan/Giant in the next Arya chapter when she tells us the Titan could stride over the walls of WF. As she sails between it's legs. 

After he has so easily walked right through her castle. And indeed she accepted his help. Just as she has done in reality. The symbolic giant; Roberts Doll. Makes a full frontal attack on the gates. And She destroys it. We are now entering the next stage in her story. The fingers and early Eyrie chapters are transitional ones. It is once Lysa dies that this part of her story amps up and that part begins with the snowcastle scene laying out for us what will be happening.

This is of course all about her and LF. Her mounting his head on a spike has been foreshadowed from as early on as AGOT. She wishes she could mount Joffrey's head on a spike as he forces her to look upon her fathers head.  What she is wishing for here is her fathers killers head on a spike. She mentions this again when she tells him maybe Robb will bring me your head. She's determined in her own way to see this done. But of course Joffrey gave the command but the entire spiral of devastation which led to Ned's death came from LF. He is her fathers true killer. The man responsible for all her losses.  Some even believe that LF whispered in Joffrey's ear to ignore his mothers advice and execute Ned Stark.  

The clear attack by the doll might indicate a forceful assault by LF on her person. I prefer the idea that she calmly calls for his head because she has gained knowledge which reveals LF's full involvement in her fathers killing. She has a piece of the puzzle already from her aunts last words. That she killed Jon Arryn to draw Ned to KL, and wrote to Cat inspiring discord between the Starks & Lannisters at LF's request. Sansa has put this to the back of her mind because currently she can do nothing with it. She's stuck and he's her best bet in staying alive and getting back WF. She thinks of Jeyne in her TWOW sample chapter and I think it will be Jeyne who gives her the rest. Jeyne is headed to the wall with Tycho and there she will meet back up with Jon. Who may or may not be alive dead undead or whatever.  And she should speak with him once she arrives. Unless he is dead dead and we all know how unlikely that is. Jeyne was taken from the room she and Sansa were kept in and given to LF who promptly put her in his brothel and had her forced into prostitution.  But what if whilst there she heard LF's scheming? If she tells Jon that LF persuaded Joffrey to execute Ned and Jon goes to WF once Sansa arrives there, that would be LF's undoing. She'd have him seized and execute him. I've been saying all this for years. The other possibility is that he physically assaults her but I think that has a lot less impact on her story. It doesn't work at all with the theme of her becoming more autonomous and outplaying him. It's just a reaction to a horrible event. Though I can't deny his increasingly disturbing sexual advances upon her do give credit to it as an idea. 

But back to our meaning within meaning and walls within wall symbolism. What does this all tell us about the idea that she could undergo a mental assault and use her skills to ward that off? In the snow castle scene she successfully intercepts an attack and spectacularly defeats the opponent.  So if she does receive an attack upon her mind fortress she'll succeed in fending it off. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

On 5/11/2018 at 8:36 PM, Azarial said:

See that is one of the things that makes me think it is related to warging, since a bird reciting words is how we are told ravens used to deliver messages, so this could be a clue (or not). Like I said it was a random thought and I would need to do a re-read to make it a theory. That said when you see someone warg they take on traits, but don't lose themselves in the process, so I agree with the compassion bit 100%, but don't see it as a point against her absorbing traits from others.

I think the thing that really made me think this was what I remember of her thoughts on the bridge with Jeoffery and the Hound, and when she is near Jeoffery she is thinking of pushing him, understandable don't get me wrong, tinged with her lack of worry of her going over with him (this is a bit muddy, could be despair or his lack of concern for her) but when the Hound steps between and touches her, her whole mindset changed. She thinks the moment had passed, but for most people the moment wouldn't pass that quick, but maybe she's just really forgiving. 

Yes, she is learning to lie in her thoughts, and that does make it hard to know what's going on as self awareness doesn't seem to be a Stark trait.

Either way, just a random thought that started with wondering if she warged the old dog at the Fingers combined with the absorbing some Lady traits. Although I think I need to do a Sansa re-read just to see, as I've always just been neutral on her so haven't delved to deep into her chapters yet. That's why I'm reading threads on her, to learn more from those who are deeply invested in her character. But looking for things she learned directly vrs things she seems to pick up unknowing could be interesting, as I suspect it's a combination. 

Welcome to the wonderful world of Sansa Stark. I hope you enjoy what you discover. 

On my first read I wasn't fussed on Sansa. I felt for her she had had a dreadful cascade of events ruin her life. But I wasn't interested I wanted to get back to Jon at the wall and to Bran.  But she drew me in. I began to realise that there is a lot more to her and to her story than at first glance. I hope you too find as much to interest you. 

She is now one of my favourite characters. 

A lot of people have proposed that Sansa has some low level human raging thing going on. And it does have some merit. Sansa however shows us early on that she is very good at social interaction and people pleasing. TBH this is a skill most little girls pick up it is how we are socialised as females. And Sansa excels at it. Tyrion notes this later on at Joffreys wedding we hear his beaming pride in his wife as she flits, flirts, and socially eases her way around the room.  If there is a level of skinchanging assisting her with this skill I'd argue that rather than it making her take on others traits it allows her to understand others better. By giving insight into their thoughts and feelings. Which is rather helpful when one is learning to use manipulation to bend others to your will. This isn't a skill which requires skinchanging but one who has it will be infinitely better equipped to succeed. As with all skinchangers one must learn to master it and to not allow it to take you in a direction which would conquer you. Not be too much in your wolf or too often in the sky so to say. Not allow it to make you become more like them if your ideas are correct and she shows signs of taking on the traits of others.  I do think she and Sandor bonded to an extent and that she has this association throughout the books with dogs/hounds shows that and she intuits his feelings and presence and his characters takes on a role of protector in much the way we saw Lady doing. 

  But I'd argue against Cersei. She doesn't take on her traits, Sansa learns her lessons from Cersei in a different way. And they are lessons not just from Cersei but from the RK in general. She learns that the idealised social portrait of nobility is a lie. That beauty and class do not dictate ones nature. That the songs idealising Chivalric life and the lessons of her Septa were wrong, the Andal culture is a beautiful facade hiding an ugly truth.  She learns through Cersei what weapons not to use. Don't use fear to control ones subjects it will bite you in the arse. Love is a surer way to loyalty.  She also learns the biggest lesson and that is not to trust others implicitly. That people always want something from you.  She learns that kindness can lead to rewards.  But I wouldn't say that she takes on Cersei's traits in this process.  

She is deliberately taking on traits of LF. She's actively trying to learn from him about how to play people. It's a good thing it will lead to her being the Stark who can rebuild WF and the North really needs someone who knows how to be persuasive. We see her practising her fledgling skills in the sample chapter from TWOW.

Spoiler

Both with LF himself and with Harry. With Robert. And to a degree with Lyn Corbray too. 

So I don't know that we could say she's unconsciously taking on his traits through her warg abillity. Because she's actively practising it. 

One of the most interesting sides to Sansa's skinchanging abillity is her association with birds. And her time in the Eyrie pads that out with some lovely imagary that induces a feeling of Sansa perhaps touching upon the minds of the falcons who sweep and soar around the top of the giants lance.  

I'll pull some quotes on that and discuss the points.  I hope you are enjoying your foray into Sansa's story.   

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Right. 

AFFC Alayne I

Quote

Alayne's apartments in the Maiden's Tower were larger and more lavish than the little bedchamber where she'd been kept when Lady Lysa was alive. She had a dressing room and a privy of her own now, and a balcony of carved white stone that looked off across the Vale. While Gretchel was tending to the fire, Alayne padded barefoot across the room and slipped outside. The stone was cold beneath her feet, and the wind was blowing fiercely, as it always did up here, but the view made her forget all that for half a heartbeat. Maiden's was the easternmost of the Eyrie's seven slender towers, so she had the Vale before her, its forests and rivers and fields all hazy in the morning light. The way the sun was hitting the mountains made them look like solid gold.

So lovely. The snow-clad summit of the Giant's Lance loomed above her, an immensity of stone and ice that dwarfed the castle perched upon its shoulder. Icicles twenty feet long draped the lip of the precipice where Alyssa's Tears fell in summer. A falcon soared above the frozen waterfall, blue wings spread wide against the morning sky. Would that I had wings as well.

She rested her hands on the carved stone balustrade and made herself peer over the edge. She could see Sky six hundred feet below, and the stone steps carved into the mountain, the winding way that led past Snow and Stone all the way down to the valley floor. She could see the towers and keeps of the Gates of the Moon, as small as a child's toys. Around the walls the hosts of Lords Declarant were stirring, emerging from their tents like ants from an anthill. If only they were truly ants, she thought, we could step on them and crush them.

This quote opens with Sansa telling us her circumstances have been improved since Lysa's death. She has material comforts and conveniences previously lacking.  But she is literally a princess trapped in a tower. It is even called the maidens tower. She slips past the maid to revel in the glorious views, all this beauty and freedom is laid out before her but yet she can not access it.  The mountains look like solid gold. The view outwards sounds tremendous and what it represents is valuable to her; solid gold - escape - freedom.  

But looming over her and it is the snow capped giants lance. An immensity of stone and ice.  This represents LF the giant made of stone. The Titan. 

The icicles of Alisa's tears represent the tears cried by Catelyn Stark when LF orchestrated the events which led to her loosing everyone she loved. When Cat was at the Eyrie the tears flowed freely and it is no coincidence that GRRM had both Cat and her daughter see, comment upon and relay the story of Alyssa and her tears. It is a story that is a reflection of Niobe in Greek Mythology. The icicles and Alyssa's tears also represent Sansa herself and her losses as she and her mother are conflated frequently in the story. And Cat pops up symbolically in both her daughters arcs. 

Then the Falcon soars up over her head and she wishes she had wings as well,  And she Forces herself to look down, and then her eye wanders through the valley and to the exit from the Vale. Her escape route, the way out. She's had to force herself to look she's pushed her comfort zone to do so. And she see's the lords declerant as a barrier that she'd like to crush. They're in the way. But note she see's them as child's toys and it is the child whom she has great influence over who has the power to help in neutralising them as a barrier. He is their Liege lord not LF. And the way she fantasises about leaving is via Falcon, blue wings soaring across a sky blue sky it's rather evocative of the Arryn arms isn't it.  And note the falcon is soaring over the symbol of her grief overcoming it, in order to escape. 

So perhaps it will be through Sweet Robin that she escapes the Vale?   Falcons and falconry pop up in Sansa's story a fair bit. 

AFFC Alayne II

Quote

Petyr arched an eyebrow. "When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. That's worth another kiss now, don't you think?"

This is LF's plan as he conveys it to Sansa and the promise of WF is what makes her go along with it. But I don't think LF's plans will come off quite as he's envisioned here. And we know Sansa isn't following all his instructions and that she has her own agenda running alongside his plan. One that involves empowering and securing Roberts position.

Spoiler

Through the winged Knights tourney. She's investing in her cousin. Remember when she invested in Dontos that paid off. He helped her. At LF's behest yes. But the reason an opportunity opened up for him to reach out to her was because she herself created it through her kindness. 

And you know who else is a young falcon? Robert Arryn.  I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't just solve her own problems by empowering her cousin who then removes the obstacles for her. Through making his banner men begin to believe in him as a Lord by showing growth and change and the emergence of maturity. 

winding things back to before she left KL we get this little gem of info. 

ASOS Sansa II

Quote

 But the waterfowl teemed in the marshes along the bay, and Sansa's merlin brought down three ducks while Margaery's peregrine took a heron in full flight.

We get a recollection of the day before, but we are not permitted to view Sansa's hawking expedition through her own eyes in real time. So we don't know if she had any odd experiences but my money would be on that being the case. 

She chose a Merlin, the smallest Bird of Prey in Europe. So a little bird. And she was successful in her endeavour. So she is more likely to chose hawking as an activity again, she'd done it at WF too so I think she'll go hawking again and choose a Merlin once more.  And begin to bond with it. 

Lastly there is this quote which some people interpret as possibly her accidentally slipping the skin of one of the Falcons who sweep and soar around the mountain. As the Sky Cells face out.  I do find it holds my attention and I can't ignore the possibility. 

 AFFC Sansa I

Quote

He did that for me. I thought it was Ser Dontos, my poor old drunken Florian, but it was Petyr all the while. Littlefinger was only a mask he had to wear. Only sometimes Sansa found it hard to tell where the man ended and the mask began. Littlefinger and Lord Petyr looked so very much alike. She would have fled them both, perhaps, but there was nowhere for her to go. Winterfell was burned and desolate, Bran and Rickon dead and cold. Robb had been betrayed and murdered at the Twins, along with their lady mother. Tyrion had been put to death for killing Joffrey, and if she ever returned to King's Landing the queen would have her head as well. The aunt she'd hoped would keep her safe had tried to murder her instead. Her uncle Edmure was a captive of the Freys, while her great-uncle the Blackfish was under siege at Riverrun. I have no place but here, Sansa thought miserably, and no true friend but Petyr.

When she closed her eyes she could see him in his sky cell, huddled in a corner away from the cold black sky, crouched beneath a fur with his woodharp cradled against his chest. I must not pity him, she told herself. He was vain and cruel, and soon he will be dead. She could not save him. And why should she want to? Marillion tried to rape her, and Petyr had saved her life not once but twice. Some lies you have to tell. Lies had been all that kept her alive in King's Landing. If she had not lied to Joffrey, his Kingsguard would have beat her bloody.

Here she "see's" Marillion so clearly that she may indeed actually have seen him through the eyes of a falcon.  She feels guilty for lying about him to the lords declerant, but reminds herself that she should not as he tried to rape her. And he stood and guarded the door as her aunt tried to throw her from the moon door. She reassures herself that her dishonesty is well placed on this occasion. Peytr has helped her, Marillion has not he has actively tried to harm her. She's also noted recently that whilst she can not trust LF she has no better option currently. She knows not which is real the mask of LF or Peytr? But what choice has she got with everyone else who she might reach out to dead or unavailable to her.

  And she is correct. Some lies you have to tell. Sometimes all that stands between you and pain or death are lies. A thing which she has done well to learn.  

 

[Azarial]

On 5/13/2018 at 5:32 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Welcome to the wonderful world of Sansa Stark. I hope you enjoy what you discover. 

On my first read I wasn't fussed on Sansa. I felt for her she had had a dreadful cascade of events ruin her life. But I wasn't interested I wanted to get back to Jon at the wall and to Bran.  But she drew me in. I began to realise that there is a lot more to her and to her story than at first glance. I hope you too find as much to interest you. 

She is now one of my favourite characters. 

...If there is a level of skinchanging assisting her with this skill I'd argue that rather than it making her take on others traits it allows her to understand others better. By giving insight into their thoughts and feelings. Which is rather helpful when one is learning to use manipulation to bend others to your will. This isn't a skill which requires skinchanging but one who has it will be infinitely better equipped to succeed.

I am enjoying learning more about her. Jon was always my favorite, and I hate seeing his character be misunderstood and insulted. As a result of that I decided I would rather actively learn about all the characters than cling to mine and bash others to make mine 'best' since I don't think GRRM intends for there to be a 'best' character. And Sansa seems to be one that gets a lot of vitriol thrown at her. And as I've seen, based on the Jon hate threads, that level of dislike causes things to be missed, and I wondered what good stuff there was that was being overlooked or twisted. So I am looking forward to learning more about the hidden gems in her arc.

Super empathy, I can get on board with that. I thought that would be where she would end up after harnessing the ability. So maybe we are thinking the same thing just describing it in different terms. Her reaction to the situation on the Kings road can be seen in a much different light if we consider that she played dumb as a result of sensing the hostility in the Lannisters, as apposed to trying to impress Joffery as many seem to believe. If a skinchanger has increased instincts, think flight or fight, Lady and Sansa could be showing us a stronger flight drive (interesting given her bird link) and Arya and Nymeria, the strong fight drive in this moment. Possibly all the Starks have this, but maybe these two are the most pronounced. Well except for Rickon, but he seems more feral percieving threats when there are none, thus different. 

I would need to re-read GOT to get a better feel for the Kings Landing stuff so will differ to you on the Cersei stuff. My thoughts and what I remember tend to center around the Hound, so that could very well be. Makes me wonder what she sensed, but didn't acknowledge that lead to her not leaving with him... Now I want to read that scene again. 

On 5/13/2018 at 10:20 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

AFFC Alayne II

And you know who else is a young falcon? Robert Arryn.  I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't just solve her own problems by empowering her cousin who then removes the obstacles for her. Through making his banner men begin to believe in him as a Lord by showing growth and change and the emergence of maturity. 

 

ASOS Sansa II

We get a recollection of the day before, but we are not permitted to view Sansa's hawking expedition through her own eyes in real time. So we don't know if she had any odd experiences but my money would be on that being the case. 

She chose a Merlin, the smallest Bird of Prey in Europe. So a little bird. And she was successful in her endeavour. So she is more likely to chose hawking as an activity again, she'd done it at WF too so I think she'll go hawking again and choose a Merlin once more.  And begin to bond with it. 

 

 AFFC Sansa I

Here she "see's" Marillion so clearly that she may indeed actually have seen him through the eyes of a falcon.  She feels guilty for lying about him to the lords declerant, but reminds herself that she should not as he tried to rape her. And he stood and guarded the door as her aunt tried to throw her from the moon door. She reassures herself that her dishonesty is well placed on this occasion. Peytr has helped her, Marillion has not he has actively tried to harm her. She's also noted recently that whilst she can not trust LF she has no better option currently. She knows not which is real the mask of LF or Peytr? But what choice has she got with everyone else who she might reach out to dead or unavailable to her.

  And she is correct. Some lies you have to tell. Sometimes all that stands between you and pain or death are lies. A thing which she has done well to learn.  

 

I wondered why the Merlin as I always thought of the Nightingale with her, especially with all the laughter references that can be described as gales, and the wind references, also gales and the Starks links to night and cold but it being a song bird, now I see where the Merlin ideas are from. I also have some thoughts based off of that given the duck hunting, and we know who she may run into in the future that has a Duck with them and some three headed symbolism hmm... 

Thanks for the quote about Marillion, another thing I'd heard mentioned but hadn't picked up on until you set it out like that. 

It would be great for her to figure out what Littlefinger is up to and take him down by spying on him through a little bird. Given his distaste for Vary's and his littlebirds it would be rather poetic.

I knew about Littlefinger and his Titan links, but also knew about green seers being weak and sickly, and them or the trees being called giants. And since both sickly Robert and Littlefinger were involved with the snow castle I was never sure who she would side with, or if both of them will go down together. The giant died, but the puppet-master lived in a way, so I'm just not sure. Although the head was ripped off, so that could symbolize the puppet master going down... gah. I hope it all means Littlefinger goes down. She did stop the destruction, and say the doll could be sewn back together right? so that could mean she ends Littlefinger but salvages his plan, but in a non destructive way? Symbolism is so tricky as there are so many ways it can be interpreted. 

[Light a wight tonight]

In the wonderful world of GRRM things get confused. Somewhere he describes the same bird as a hawk and a falcon, while they are unrelated species with different behaviors. Falcons do not habitually soar; hawks do. Sansa's merlin brings down ducks? I'd give that a "no way" as merlins are too small for that. Sparrows and quail are their proper prey.

[Elaena Targaryen]

On 5/13/2018 at 12:20 PM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

snipped for length

Great post The Weirwoods Eyes! You did however set my mind on a different path. I knew, from your previous post, that you were going to focus on Sansa's bird association here. So I switched mentally to capture the bird imagery in the passage. The word perched grabbed me in this part.

So lovely. The snow-clad summit of the Giant's Lance loomed above her, an immensity of stone and ice that dwarfed the castle perched upon its shoulder. Icicles twenty feet long draped the lip of the precipice where Alyssa's Tears fell in summer. A falcon soared above the frozen waterfall, blue wings spread wide against the morning sky. Would that I had wings as well.

It read like Littlefinger is the giant with Sansa as the castle, perched on his shoulder, both using each other. The summer child cried but the giant is teaching her how to strengthen her walls with ice. I loved the idea of a castle being symbolic for Sansa, but I need more time to check into it. It fits with the cognitive dissonance idea and it would be how she protects herself mentally and emotionally. 

A castle is a fortification, they represent physical defense, a symbol of enclosure, something walled and defended, someplace safe offering protection. Castles symbolize a strong foundation, structure, strategy, sanctuary, and idealism. Princess in the tower fairy tales can be a symbol of awakening of the conscience mind. Castles can also be a symbol of hope and a place where dreams can come true. More personally, castles can speak to our cautious and conservative sides. With castles being well guarded they represent times in our lives when we need to be, as well. They can represent mental barriers and the need for more self defense.

I can see how Sansa wants to protect herself with stone and ice, to learn how to go from pawn to player, to build her walls high and to reinforce them. Now I want to reread Sansa's chapters with this psychological defense in mind, just from a cursory glance of what I recall this could have some merit.

The main reason this clicked in my head was, in regards to this thread, I was already contemplating a mental barrier Sansa has constructed for self-preservation. Sansa thinks this about Lysa -

"She murdered her own lord husband" 

- but how does she know this? This is what Sansa heard Lysa say -

 "No need for tears ... but that's not what you said in King's Landing. You told me to put the tears in Jon's wine, and I did. For Robert, and for us! And I wrote Catelyn and told her the Lannisters had killed my lord husband, just as you said. That was so clever ... you were always clever."

 - and that means Sansa knows it was truly LF. She won't think about it, every time she starts to think in this vein she skews away from thinking LF could have done bad things. I believe she is hiding this from herself because she knows she can't lie well enough to fool LF, yet. So she is lying to herself, hiding the information behind walls, a compartmentalization. People want to see the player, want to see Sansa blatantly think to herself "I know what you did" while speaking lies to him but he would see through it.

Twice Tyrion refers to Sansa as a castle. The first time -

 "Come, wife, time to smash your portcullis. I want to play come-into-the-castle." 

- it is an in-story sexual metaphor but we see it tied to Sansa's sexual awakening at other times. Then - 

"You hide behind courtesy as if it were a castle wall." "Courtesy is a lady's armor," Sansa said.

- but is armor enough? Sansa needs more than courtesy for a shield. She needs the immensity of stone and ice, strategy and guile.

I need to think more about the cloud castle, but - 

Quote

There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

 She heard the door open as her maids brought the hot water for her bath. They were both new to her service; Tyrion said the women who'd tended to her previously had all been Cersei's spies, just as Sansa had always suspected. "Come see," she told them. "There's a castle in the sky."

 They came to have a look. "It's made of gold." Shae had short dark hair and bold eyes. She did all that was asked of her, but sometimes she gave Sansa the most insolent looks. "A castle all of gold, there's a sight I'd like to see."

 "A castle, is it?" Brella had to squint. "That tower's tumbling over, looks like. It's all ruins, that is."

Sansa did not want to hear about falling towers and ruined castles.

- (I've read a few good interpretations) could it represent Tyrion and Sansa's union, Tyrion has armor too, and ends showing how it is a sham and how he personally can't protect her? 

I also want to look at her time in Maegor's  Holdfast, the castle-within-a-castle, the heart of the Red Keep. Or would she consider the godswood the heart of the castle? The latter I think, and she met Dontos there trying to get home.

There is the snow castle passage at the Eryie, which I must read again. I recall LF helping her build it, helping strengthen the walls and the eroticism. And of course -

"She wondered where this courage had come from, to speak to him so frankly. From Winterfell, she thought. I am stronger within the walls of Winterfell." 

- Maybe Robert destroying the castle could symbolize him breaking down her defenses because she will care for him, he will get into the heart of her castle. Robert claims it was not him but the giant that hurt the castle, and Sansa mounts the giant's head on the walls.

I would also like to look at the aftermath of the snow castle, the confrontation with Lysa and her death. I remember Sansa harping on building a snow castle, like she couldn't believe all the turmoil it caused. I wonder though if it was more that she felt defenseless in the turmoil and wondered why her castle was not strong enough to protect her.

Which brings us to the prophecy. -

"I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow." 

- Maybe the castle does not represent the place but the how, like with the former. The giant will let his guard down and the maid will slay him with cunning.

ETA I'm so sorry Springwatch!!! I completely left out your ideas of Sansa's mind as a fortress initially inspiring me!!! I've been so busy lately and this has been marinating in the back of my mind for several days, then the quote of the giant with the castle perched on his shoulder... I rushed my post  it was word vomit... 
 

[Ygrain]

An interesting take on Sansa as a castle, especially in relation to Littlefinger. He helps her build her castle, it makes her stronger, and when he enters the castle (or tries to break it, like Robin's doll), it becomes his undoing.

I don't think that the castle being Winterfell is a coincidence - LF aims for Sansa to become the lady of Winterfell, and if Winterfell from snow could make her stronger, the real deal will be a true boost to her strength. The idea that she will become a true Stark with everything that comes with it, like dealing justice with her own hand, doesn't seem far-fetched at all.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Okay, the OP here takes a long time to talk about how kind Tyrion is. My response to them : So what? Sansa has no reason to trust Tyrion after everything Joffrey and Cersei have done to her. She was forced to marry him! If I had a worst enemy, then was forced to marry their family member instead of the new person I had a chance with (to escape the nest of vipers I was in), I would hate them, too. I would even know I was being unfair (which Sansa recognizes too), but I would still hate them. She is trapped in a marriage she doesn't want around people she hates. She reasonably doesn't want to sleep with Tyrion. There are loads of people I don't want to sleep with, no matter how kind they are to me. You say Tyrion is the kindest person in her life. I admit he treats her alright. He is kind to her more than others, but that doesn't mean she has to like him or care for him. He offers her BASIC respect, admittedly something almost no one else in her life does, but basic respect does not require love. Most importantly, his family, and him by association, are responsible for Robb, Catelyn, and Eddard's death. People love to act innocent in the books, but when you support a certain ruler/person, you are partially responsible for the things they do. She has a reason to not hate him, she does not have a reason to love him. I would be trying to escape, too. And Sansa really didn't realize that Tyrion would be blamed for Joffrey's death. She barely knew her responsibility in Joffrey's death. She didn't betray him, because they were never on the same team, and she owed him nothing. I have no idea what the point of listing all the way's Tyrion was so kind to her was, as it means nothing to her (and lets be honest, to most of us it would not). And considering how awful Tyrion is to other women (Shae and other random slave women), I think Sansa was just lucky the time frame she was around Tyrion for. As to the rest of your analysis, you have a problem seeing the world from Sansa's perspectice, that much is clear. If you attempted trying on her shoes instead of feeling every moment through Tyrion's shoes or your own, you would probably understand her actions better. I don't agree with everything she does, and she is far from my favorite character, but SHE SHOULD have mistrusted Tyrion, and he deserved nothing from her. If he truly was kind to her, he would have returned her to her mother long before. If he was really her friend, he would have helped her get to Willas. He was not her friend. He was part of her enemy forces, and he treated her as a pawn, a victim of war. He did not do anything for her, he did everything for himself. From the end of the first book until now, Sansa has been used by others. I think in the end Eddard and Catelyn were trying to do what was best for her, and I could find a multitude of quotes that show Sansa thinks exclusively positely about them post AGoT, but once she was captured by Cersei, she has only been used. 

Edit : I said Tyrion gave her basic kindness. She gave him (although often forced) basic kindness back. She owes him nothing more than her normal formal pleasantries, because that is essentially all he gave her.

[WildlingWitch]

1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Okay, the OP here takes a long time to talk about how kind Tyrion is. My response to them : So what? Sansa has no reason to trust Tyrion after everything Joffrey and Cersei have done to her. She was forced to marry him! If I had a worst enemy, then was forced to marry their family member instead of the new person I had a chance with (to escape the nest of vipers I was in), I would hate them, too. I would even know I was being unfair (which Sansa recognizes too), but I would still hate them. She is trapped in a marriage she doesn't want around people she hates. She reasonably doesn't want to sleep with Tyrion. There are loads of people I don't want to sleep with, no matter how kind they are to me. You say Tyrion is the kindest person in her life. I admit he treats her alright. He is kind to her more than others, but that doesn't mean she has to like him or care for him. He offers her BASIC respect, admittedly something almost no one else in her life does, but basic respect does not require love. Most importantly, his family, and him by association, are responsible for Robb, Catelyn, and Eddard's death. People love to act innocent in the books, but when you support a certain ruler/person, you are partially responsible for the things they do. She has a reason to not hate him, she does not have a reason to love him. I would be trying to escape, too. And Sansa really didn't realize that Tyrion would be blamed for Joffrey's death. She barely knew her responsibility in Joffrey's death. She didn't betray him, because they were never on the same team, and she owed him nothing. I have no idea what the point of listing all the way's Tyrion was so kind to her was, as it means nothing to her (and lets be honest, to most of us it would not). And considering how awful Tyrion is to other women (Shae and other random slave women), I think Sansa was just lucky the time frame she was around Tyrion for. As to the rest of your analysis, you have a problem seeing the world from Sansa's perspectice, that much is clear. If you attempted trying on her shoes instead of feeling every moment through Tyrion's shoes or your own, you would probably understand her actions better. I don't agree with everything she does, and she is far from my favorite character, but SHE SHOULD have mistrusted Tyrion, and he deserved nothing from her. If he truly was kind to her, he would have returned her to her mother long before. If he was really her friend, he would have helped her get to Willas. He was not her friend. He was part of her enemy forces, and he treated her as a pawn, a victim of war. He did not do anything for her, he did everything for himself. From the end of the first book until now, Sansa has been used by others. I think in the end Eddard and Catelyn were trying to do what was best for her, and I could find a multitude of quotes that show Sansa thinks exclusively positely about them post AGoT, but once she was captured by Cersei, she has only been used. 

Edit : I said Tyrion gave her basic kindness. She gave him (although often forced) basic kindness back. She owes him nothing more than her normal formal pleasantries, because that is essentially all he gave her.

I think Sansa picked her battle well when it comes to Tyrion. Sansa has a lot of built up frustration and anger for the Lannister's that she can't let out. She can't insult Cersei or Joffrey because they are currently the most powerful two in the Kingdom and she has a lot of hate she can't let loose, she finds herself married to one of these people that she has so much hate for but luckily everybody and their dog insults him so it wouldn't look like treason if she joined in. Sansa gets to let go of some of that anger that she's been hiding and Tryion who is smart and understanding would have enough sense to understand the position she's in.     

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

16 hours ago, Azarial said:

I am enjoying learning more about her. Jon was always my favorite, and I hate seeing his character be misunderstood and insulted. As a result of that I decided I would rather actively learn about all the characters than cling to mine and bash others to make mine 'best' since I don't think GRRM intends for there to be a 'best' character. And Sansa seems to be one that gets a lot of vitriol thrown at her. And as I've seen, based on the Jon hate threads, that level of dislike causes things to be missed, and I wondered what good stuff there was that was being overlooked or twisted. So I am looking forward to learning more about the hidden gems in her arc.

Super empathy, I can get on board with that. I thought that would be where she would end up after harnessing the ability. So maybe we are thinking the same thing just describing it in different terms. Her reaction to the situation on the Kings road can be seen in a much different light if we consider that she played dumb as a result of sensing the hostility in the Lannisters, as apposed to trying to impress Joffery as many seem to believe. If a skinchanger has increased instincts, think flight or fight, Lady and Sansa could be showing us a stronger flight drive (interesting given her bird link) and Arya and Nymeria, the strong fight drive in this moment. Possibly all the Starks have this, but maybe these two are the most pronounced. Well except for Rickon, but he seems more feral percieving threats when there are none, thus different. 

I would need to re-read GOT to get a better feel for the Kings Landing stuff so will differ to you on the Cersei stuff. My thoughts and what I remember tend to center around the Hound, so that could very well be. Makes me wonder what she sensed, but didn't acknowledge that lead to her not leaving with him... Now I want to read that scene again. 

I wondered why the Merlin as I always thought of the Nightingale with her, especially with all the laughter references that can be described as gales, and the wind references, also gales and the Starks links to night and cold but it being a song bird, now I see where the Merlin ideas are from. I also have some thoughts based off of that given the duck hunting, and we know who she may run into in the future that has a Duck with them and some three headed symbolism hmm... 

Thanks for the quote about Marillion, another thing I'd heard mentioned but hadn't picked up on until you set it out like that. 

It would be great for her to figure out what Littlefinger is up to and take him down by spying on him through a little bird. Given his distaste for Vary's and his littlebirds it would be rather poetic.

I knew about Littlefinger and his Titan links, but also knew about green seers being weak and sickly, and them or the trees being called giants. And since both sickly Robert and Littlefinger were involved with the snow castle I was never sure who she would side with, or if both of them will go down together. The giant died, but the puppet-master lived in a way, so I'm just not sure. Although the head was ripped off, so that could symbolize the puppet master going down... gah. I hope it all means Littlefinger goes down. She did stop the destruction, and say the doll could be sewn back together right? so that could mean she ends Littlefinger but salvages his plan, but in a non destructive way? Symbolism is so tricky as there are so many ways it can be interpreted. 

Jon was my initial favourite too, and I dislike seeing any character discussed superficially. I don't dislike any of them, there are some I am more interested in that others and I never understood this tearing one down to bolster your favourite thing so many readers do. Seems silly to me. The story as a whole is amazing and each individual character contributes towards that. I often find myself defending characters I'm not fussed on just because I can't stand the closed minded views and twisting of the story to suit their agendas. Dany being the most frequent and Stannis too.  And the golden boy way so many read Tyrion is an example of how it works in reverse too. 

I think the situation at the Trident can only ever be read as her trying to minimise the negative fall out, and not as her trying to impress Joffrey. The fact so many read it that way tells us right away that they're not thinking it through properly. Joffrey frightened Sansa after Nymeria bit him. Cersei is calling for her little sisters hand to be chopped off, And for Nymeria to be killed. And Ned her father has not said he will break the betrothal so she knows that if she tells the truth she will anger her future family as the truth shows Joffrey in a negative light, Joffrey who will be both her husband and her king one day. Cersei won't stop asking for Arya's hand and Nymeria's pelt if Sansa tells the truth it will only empower her to demand them. After all the truth is that Nymeria did attack Joffrey and Arya did disarm him with a stick and humiliate him. Her truth or lack of do not effect Mycah's outcome. Cersei didn't have a mobile taht she could send Sandor a quick text on to say don't kill the boy, nor would she have if she had. 

Sansa made the only choice she could. And the fact so many don't understand this and think she was trying to impress the Lannisters is a good illustration of your point about twisting the story to suit their preference. 

Yes, it could be influenced by a kind of abillity to sense peoples feelings which being a warg gives her. All the Starks potentially have this and it can sort of be seen in them all if you look closely. 

The Blackwater scene is a great scene it has so many layered symbols in it. The dagger, the song, the cloak, the ceder chest, the bells ringing out.  All really great foreshadoing of their eventual marriage. IMO. I've always thought that besides the obvious reason she doesn't go with him, that she is afraid because of the battle, that they might be caught etc. But she has also already been meeting Dontos in the godswood and he has promised her a way out. And that GRRM simply needs her to remain in KL a bit longer yet and for them to experience a period of separation for the story to work. That she is afraid of what he represents in her story. Her own burgeoning sexuality.  Which is a very normal stage of adolescence. She's too young for what he represents yet and needs time to grow up.  So if she is picking up on anything here I'd suggest it is his desire for her and that she quite rightly at this point in her life finds that frightening. 

Yes, the Merlin of course also represents Merlin from Arthurian takes who himself was said to be a shapeshifter.  So it fits on several levels. As to the ducks. Interesting idea.  Let me know if you ever flesh it out. I came up with some stuff with blue eyed wolf once pertaining to the symbolism of the three ducks and the heron.  All related to the theory she has that the three hedge knights in the vale could be Howland, Sandor, & the elder brother. It's actually a really interesting theory with a heck of a lot of merit. But I know it seems a bit whackey at first. 

Yes, I would love for some of her dirt on LF to come to her via her spying on him via her Merlin. It has a certain poetry. 

I think when we look at the stuff pertaining to Sansa killing LF we have to look at all the evidence. 

First she wants her fathers killers head on a spike; her wishes come true remember Janos Slynt and Jon's executing him later by beheading him. 

Secondly the GoHH dreams of her; the maid with serpents in her hair, slaying a giant in a castle made of snow.

Then we get the snow castle scene. 

These three instances represent GRRM's preferred foreshadowing technique as told to us by his editor. That he does three things, first super subtle, and each becoming more clear. 

Then we look at why LF is the giant. First his house sigil is the titan. Then we have the wording re Sansa/Arya chapters about the castle walls of WF. 

The we look at the place he comes from Stone being the bastard name for the vale, the fingers where he has his keep are littered with stones, he points it out to Sansa. And the Titan is made of stone. Next he is a giant in the story and is represented by the giants lance at least twice when we look at Sansa's vale chapters. I am totally nicking @Elaena Targaryen's picking that up in the quote I gave earlier.  Thank you that was fantastic. And I'll reply to you shortly. And ondly in the TWOW sample chapter. Cough the cake is a metaphore for LF's hard on for Sansa. It's all a bit phalic but again he is the giants lance. 

Lastly we can combine these things to go back and look at Brans dream. Sansa and Arya are being watched over by Jaime & The Hound, yup. Both men go on to play a protective role in both Stark girls lives. The HOund in KL for Sansa and in teh RL's for Arya and Jaime in his pledge to Cat and in sending Brienne to find them and make them safe. But the four of them are being loomed over ominousley by a stone clad giant. And LF is the one who looms over them menacingly in that he set about the events that saw them both endangered and destroyed their house. LF is the stone giant. 

 

So yeah I think it is definitive that Sansa will destroy LF by having his head chopped off at WF once they return there. 

The way that she tells Robyn his dolly can be repaired I think stands in for her own relationship with him. They have not got off to a good start. She finds him a bit gross, and he's spoilt and petulant. But after this scene when Lysa is dead she becomes his carer, his guide, his protector, their relationship can be repaired. It is being. We see that in her interactions with him since. So despite the fact she upset him, and hurt him, she will also nurture him and give him strength.