Sansa and Cognitive Dissonance

[LynnS]

32 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I'm not sure TBH I've never dissected that aspect. Hodor's reluctance to re-enter the crypts.   He does though in the end to hide from Ramsey during the sack.  I'd guess without having put any real consideration into it that it could be to do with the "free'd" spirit after Rickon removes that rusted sword? 

This is quite strange.  Martin says that Hodor is only afraid at specific times.  This one incident with the crypts after Bran's dream and during the lightning storm at Queenscrown.  I wonder about Hodor's ability to sense or share Bran's dreams.  This exchange between Arya and the Kindly Man might be telling:
 

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A Feast for Crows - Arya II

"Death is not the worst thing," the kindly man replied. "It is His gift to us, an end to want and pain. On the day that we are born the Many-Faced God sends each of us a dark angel to walk through life beside us. When our sins and our sufferings grow too great to be borne, the angel takes us by the hand to lead us to the nightlands, where the stars burn ever bright. Those who come to drink from the black cup are looking for their angels. If they are afraid, the candles soothe them. When you smell our candles burning, what does it make you think of, my child?"

The question is why Hodor is waiting by Bran's bed with a candle during this nightmare: 
 

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A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

In his dream he was climbing again, pulling himself up an ancient windowless tower, his fingers forcing themselves between blackened stones, his feet scrabbling for purchase. Higher and higher he climbed, through the clouds and into the night sky, and still the tower rose before him. When he paused to look down, his head swam dizzily and he felt his fingers slipping. Bran cried out and clung for dear life. The earth was a thousand miles beneath him and he could not fly. He could not fly. He waited until his heart had stopped pounding, until he could breathe, and he began to climb again. There was no way to go but up. Far above him, outlined against a vast pale moon, he thought he could see the shapes of gargoyles. His arms were sore and aching, but he dared not rest. He forced himself to climb faster. The gargoyles watched him ascend. Their eyes glowed red as hot coals in a brazier. Perhaps once they had been lions, but now they were twisted and grotesque. Bran could hear them whispering to each other in soft stone voices terrible to hear. He must not listen, he told himself, he must not hear, so long as he did not hear them he was safe. But when the gargoyles pulled themselves loose from the stone and padded down the side of the tower to where Bran clung, he knew he was not safe after all. "I didn't hear," he wept as they came closer and closer, "I didn't, I didn't."

He woke gasping, lost in darkness, and saw a vast shadow looming over him. "I didn't hear," he whispered, trembling in fear, but then the shadow said "Hodor," and lit the candle by the bedside, and Bran sighed with relief.

 

Martin seems to be casting Hodor in the role of dark angel.  So the question is whether or not Hodor was also witness to Bran's dream about the 3EC. 

The other possibility is that Hodor senses the menace that is Shaggy Dog.

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

20 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

 

Let's try this: what may be the reason why Sansa seems to have false memories and is often of two-minds about what is happening around her at any given moment?

I'd like to take a look at the warging thing, which has shown us how Bran, Jon and Arya can dream through the eyes of their wolves and even receive "mind messages", for lack of a better term, in their waking moments. At the same time, we can see from Rickon at key points in Clash that his waking mind is actually more wolf-like than human, leading to the possibility that the mind-body connection between warg and wolf can work both ways.

Next, let's take a look at what happens to the warg at the point of death. Bran seems to have resided in Summer during his coma, which is probably the only reason he survived. Also, both Jon and Robb called their wolves' names with their last breaths, quite possibly signaling the same kind of transfer that Bran experienced. (And in Robb's case, this is doubly disturbing because it means he experienced two deaths at the Red Wedding). In fact, we have Varamyr Sixskins' POV pretty much confirming all of this.

So if the mind connection between warg and wolf is a two-way street, and humans can leap into their wolves' minds at the point of death, then it also stands to reason that the wolf can do the same when it dies. And when we circle this back to Sansa, we now have to consider the possibility that she is, in fact, of two minds: her conscious human mind and her subconscious Lady mucking around behind the scenes.

Other than the Un-Kiss she doesn't have false memories, in fact she tells us her memories are true despite her outwardly changing what happened. ie: Marillion pushing Lysa. Who her parents were.  mis-remembering the name of the sword is hardly a false memory is it? I see it more that GRRM wanted to introduce the idea of unreliable narrator. Which is a lesson we should apply to all POV's. And of course he seemed to be paving the way for the Un-Kiss which is more significant and is about Sansa's sexual awakening. I think people tend to put far too much emphasis on the idea of Sansa as having false memories as if it can be applied to her as a trend and not just one moment. And I don't think it is a good way to build theories. 

Nor do I think we can say she is in two minds about what is happening around her. She has mixed feelings about LF because she knows the truth about the kind of man he is yet he shows great kindness and favour towards her. Again that is more a sign of perception than lack of it. 

But I do see what you are getting at and I agree, the wolf definitly passes into the warg too to a degree. This is evident in all the Starks. 

If we look again at that scene we discussed earlier we can get some lovely clues to Sansa as a Warg.

AGOT Sansa I

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Lady growled. A terror as overwhelming as anything Sansa Stark had ever felt filled her suddenly. She stepped backward and bumped into someone.

Strong hands grasped her by the shoulders, and for a moment Sansa thought it was her father, but when she turned, it was the burned face of Sandor Clegane looking down at her, his mouth twisted in a terrible mockery of a smile. "You are shaking, girl," he said, his voice rasping. "Do I frighten you so much?"

He did, and had since she had first laid eyes on the ruin that fire had made of his face, though it seemed to her now that he was not half so terrifying as the other. Still, Sansa wrenched away from him, and the Hound laughed, and Lady moved between them, rumbling a warning. Sansa dropped to her knees to wrap her arms around the wolf. They were all gathered around gaping, she could feel their eyes on her, and here and there she heard muttered comments and titters of laughter.

"A wolf," a man said, and someone else said, "Seven hells, that's a direwolf," and the first man said, "What's it doing in camp?" and the Hound's rasping voice replied, "The Starks use them for wet nurses," and Sansa realized that the two stranger knights were looking down on her and Lady, swords in their hands, and then she was frightened again, and ashamed. Tears filled her eyes.

She heard the queen say, "Joffrey, go to her."

And her prince was there.

"Leave her alone," Joffrey said. He stood over her, beautiful in blue wool and black leather, his golden curls shining in the sun like a crown. He gave her his hand, drew her to her feet. "What is it, sweet lady? Why are you afraid? No one will hurt you. Put away your swords, all of you. The wolf is her little pet, that's all." He looked at Sandor Clegane. "And you, dog, away with you, you're scaring my betrothed."

 Here Lady gives the warning before Sansa feels the fear. So she's responded to the wolfs warning about Ilyn. Showing she is connected to Lady as much as Lady is to her, Lady exhibits behaviour which mimics Sansa's personality she is obedient etc. But then Lady growls at the Hound and Sansa drops to her knees and uses the wolf as a kind of shield. I think this next bit is a bit of a metaphor for her as a warg in KL. She is afraid of the Hound and Lady shields her; he's no threat to her of course but the wolf is acting on Sansa's feelings. And at this point in the story she feels afraid of him. But it is the bit about the people laughing that I think metaphorical; it's about a warg going to KL. She's out of place as a northerner and a warg despite wanting to go south and live a life of songs and courtly romance. That part of her will never belong in the south. When they exclaim a wolf and seven hells... They're talking about Sansa herself as a warg. Not consciously I mean metaphorically. Sandor steps in to offer her a defence boasting the Starks use them as wetnurses.implying strength and toughness and fearlessness. She however feels ashamed, ashamed of her wolfish side? Ashamed of being a warg? (Jon is like this too, he is ashamed of it and denies his true nature.) She begins to cry too. 

When Joffrey comes to her defence she see's him as a saviour;  golden curls shining this reflects her current feelings about the goodness of royalty and all that stuff. But Joffrey in his reassurances minimises her wolf/her as a warg. And instead of bigging her up as a tough northerner who fears nothing he makes himself her protector and her the weak maiden by telling her how to feel and commanding the men to put away their swords. He also sends the Hound away from her. This is a metaphor for the ways of the South and the dangers to her in going there, as well as what she would have to give up and minimise to be accepted. Later she has very different thoughts and feelings about Joffrey & The Hound as we know and that is reflected in the later text. But what we see here is both her responding to Lady & Lady to her and a neat little metaphor for her as a warg and her as a Lady being at odds.  

I hope all that makes sense it is a bit garbled I know But I think i got it across? 

AGOT Sansa I

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He did not say a word. Lady bared her teeth and began to growl, a low rumble full of menace, but this time Sansa silenced the wolf with a gentle hand to the head. "I am sorry if I offended you, Ser Ilyn," she said.

She waited for an answer, but none came. As the headsman looked at her, his pale colorless eyes seemed to strip the clothes away from her, and then the skin, leaving her soul naked before him. Still silent, he turned and walked away.

Again Lady reacts not Sansa and this time instead of feeling the fear she controls the wolf. She's pushed aside her wargish instincts and abillity to read truth and lies and peoples natures etc that being a warg grants her. She's done this in order to conform the social codes and expectations. And again I think that is a neat metaphor for her at this point in the story. Later though she has to combine the two in KL using one as armour to shield herself and her wolfy instincts to read peoples true natures and intents.  

Later in the chapter it is all reinforced when Joffrey makes her leave her wolf behind. 

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offrey glanced back at Lady, who was following at their heels. "Your wolf is liable to frighten the horses, and my dog seems to frighten you. Let us leave them both behind and set off on our own, what do you say?"

Sansa hesitated. "If you like," she said uncertainly. "I suppose I could tie Lady up." 

And she offers to tie her wolf up. She's offering to suppress her warg side to please him. Its awful isn't it. Thank the Gods Sansa didn't do this for long and that she woke up and realised life is not a song. Thank goodness she interacted with The Hound so much. Clever too as after her wolf is taken from her it is another canine who helps her to see the truth. 

And then Oh No that fateful scene! 

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Someone's there," Sansa said anxiously. She found herself thinking of Lady, wishing the direwolf was with her.

"You're safe with me." Joffrey drew his Lion's Tooth from its sheath. The sound of steel on leather made her tremble. 

Sansa is anxious it is almost like she can smell trouble brewing, she wishes she had not tied Lady up after all. Again metaphorically had she listened closely to her warg side she might have realised sooner Joffrey was rotten. And when Joffrey draws his sword, even though he has said he will protect her she trembles. Is she in a way sensing his lie? He doesn't as we know in the end protect her at all he has her beaten and threatens to rape her.  

Later on there are numerous instances of Sansa still having her wolfish senses heightened, which gives weight to the idea that part of the wolf goes into the warg. The best example I feel is when she draws on her wolf to get herself & Sweet Robin down the Giants Lance. It is almost like Lady is there with her. And she senses her at other points too. 

Then there is this heart breaking dream in AGOT Sansa III

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Sansa sat up. "Lady," she whispered. For a moment it was as if the direwolf was there in the room, looking at her with those golden eyes, sad and knowing. She had been dreaming, she realized. Lady was with her, and they were running together, and … and … trying to remember was like trying to catch the rain with her fingers. The dream faded, and Lady was dead again.

I think this one is a clue that she had been having wolf dreams too btw. She's trying to remember the dream but it reads like she's trying to catch the connection to Lady that she once had and that a part of it is still within her. It was a wolf dream in a way as it was very soon after Lady's death and if as Varymyr says of the humans the animal fades in time too this close to her death her presence would be strong still. But it hasn't gone away even much later in the story she just doesn't have the same visceral experience of an actual wolf dream. In ACOK she thinks of Lady as she draws a knife in the godswood in order to defend herself from a drunk Dontos who she thinks is about to press himself on her, and she thinks of Lady right as Sandor reaches for her in her bed during the blackwater scene. Later she again wakes from sleeping and thinks Lady is with her, but it is the Old Hound at the Fingers. 

Again the quote from 

ACOK Sansa II

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By the time she reached the godswood, the noises had faded to a faint rattle of steel and a distant shouting. Sansa pulled her cloak tighter. The air was rich with the smells of earth and leaf. Lady would have liked this place, she thought. There was something wild about a godswood; even here, in the heart of the castle at the heart of the city, you could feel the old gods watching with a thousand unseen eyes.

Here in the godswood she thinks of Lady and it is connected to sensory input, as well of course to the Old Gods. She goes on to pray and from then on becomes more and more faithful to the old gods. So that by ASOS we have her lamenting the lack of godswood at the eyrie and never so much as setting foot in the castles sept. 

ASOS Sansa IV ; another wolf dream she is running through the gods wood with Lady. But tbh is she dreaming of running with her? or in her? Or of running with Lady in her? It's too close to wolf dreams for me to dismiss and again she uses the idea of Lady to draw strength and bravery.

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That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so . . .

She threw back the coverlets. I must be brave. Her torments would soon be ended, one way or the other. If Lady was here, I would not be afraid.

I think this all combines to show that yes indeed Lady resides within her now and that she is a part of Sansa. And that we have already seen this manifest in the books. 

[John Suburbs]

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I'm not sure TBH I've never dissected that aspect. Hodor's reluctance to re-enter the crypts.   He does though in the end to hide from Ramsey during the sack.  I'd guess without having put any real consideration into it that it could be to do with the "free'd" spirit after Rickon removes that rusted sword? 

Or maybe Hodor had the same dream as Bran and Rickon?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

This is quite strange.  Martin says that Hodor is only afraid at specific times.  This one incident with the crypts after Bran's dream and during the lightning storm at Queenscrown.  I wonder about Hodor's ability to sense or share Bran's dreams.  This exchange between Arya and the Kindly Man might be telling:
 

The question is why Hodor is waiting by Bran's bed with a candle during this nightmare: 
 

Martin seems to be casting Hodor in the role of dark angel.  So the question is whether or not Hodor was also witness to Bran's dream about the 3EC. 

The other possibility is that Hodor senses the menace that is Shaggy Dog.

 

I don't know what GRRM meant by at specific times. If that was implying a connection to Bran or not? 

But if the idea that a familiar melds with the skinchanger and imbues their personality with that of the human then it would stand to reason that Hodor would give a part of himself in a connection with Bran. 

But we can't assume all skinchangers have this bond with their animals. It might be a warg specific thing? I'm thinking we have to go through and examine the relationships between Arya & the cat. Orrel & his Eagle, Varymyr and his animals, and Boraq & his Boar to answer this. If so though yes I believe Hodor & Bran must have a connection of this manner.

I don't think Hodor was waiting besides Bran with a candle. I think that everyone has a candle next to their bed and Hodor sleeps in Brans chambers now and simply woke because Bran woke and lit the candle because that is what anyone would do. Bran hasn't yet begun slipping into Hodor at this point but the binding process might have begun? So maybe he feels Brans fear from the dream and that wakes him? Or maybe it was bran gasping that woke him? 

I think we have to be very careful when trying to assess things often looking closely at the way things are written if it was that Hodor already had the candle lit and was sat besides him I'd find that more strange. But as it reads it sounds like normal behaviour. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

4 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Or maybe Hodor had the same dream as Bran and Rickon?

Mayhaps.  But in order for that I'd think he would have to already be his bonded familiar. And at this stage he isn't he has only just started riding on his back I don't think their bond is strong enough at this point to pull him into a dream. 

[John Suburbs]

2 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Mayhaps.  But in order for that I'd think he would have to already be his bonded familiar. And at this stage he isn't he has only just started riding on his back I don't think their bond is strong enough at this point to pull him into a dream. 

Would Hodor necessarily have this ability only through Bran or Rickon? We don't know much about his heritage. Could he be having green dreams all on his own if, say, he was descended from Stark, Blackwood, Reed or any other First Men house? Might there even be some Skagosi blood in his mix. Might he have gotten the dream directly from Bloodraven for some unknown reason?

Just thinking out loud.

[John Suburbs]

46 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

snip

No doubt that Sansa and Lady share impressions before Lady died. I'll give Sansa POVs a reread after she died to see if anything jumps out.

Thanks for the motive to crack open the books once again.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

10 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Would Hodor necessarily have this ability only through Bran or Rickon? We don't know much about his heritage. Could he be having green dreams all on his own if, say, he was descended from Stark, Blackwood, Reed or any other First Men house? Might there even be some Skagosi blood in his mix. Might he have gotten the dream directly from Bloodraven for some unknown reason?

Just thinking out loud.

Oh I love thinking out loud. Sometimes it comes to nothing sometimes you uncover genius level theories.  

We only know his great grandmother is Old Nan. And that she likely propagated his grandmother or father with Dunk. We know that she was a wetnurse so likely smallfolk and taht her child would have been a bastard as Dunk is very unlikely to have married her, then abandoned her at WF when he and Egg left. So it is unlikely her child married into noble blood.  The North is made up of families who rose to power centuries ago likely because they were founded by those with magical abilities as well as those with millitarial strength.  Meaning the smallfolk are made up of those who lacked both, magic abillity can end up in smallfolk genes via bastardy.But Old Nan is not a known bastard of anyone and if she were I think we'd know it. And we know Dunk has no magical abilities. Of course it could come from some other person whoever their child married or even who the parent of Hodor married etc. But we don't have anything to indicate that and without it I'm disinclined to start suggesting it. His fear of the crypt is the only thing and that can have other explanations than he dreamt about it. 

17 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

No doubt that Sansa and Lady share impressions before Lady died. I'll give Sansa POVs a reread after she died to see if anything jumps out.

Thanks for the motive to crack open the books once again.

I'm so glad to have inspired this.  enjoy! And of course bring any observations you find back for discussion. 

 

[Ygrain]

4 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I'm not sure TBH I've never dissected that aspect. Hodor's reluctance to re-enter the crypts.   He does though in the end to hide from Ramsey during the sack.  I'd guess without having put any real consideration into it that it could be to do with the "free'd" spirit after Rickon removes that rusted sword? 

It's not just Hodor, Summer is unwilling to enter the crypts, as well, though he eventually does. And when Bran's soul is returning to the crypts, he doesn't like it, either (dead and black).

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

46 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

It's not just Hodor, Summer is unwilling to enter the crypts, as well, though he eventually does. And when Bran's soul is returning to the crypts, he doesn't like it, either (dead and black).

oohhh this makes it more interesting Thanks Ygrain.  

I'm going with the released shade idea then. 

P.S. Have a look at the How are the KG chosen thread I wrote a post regarding a recent realisation I have had about Ser Mandon Moore and I don't think anyone else has noted it before; I think it might be a hint towards the actions and motivations of the KG esp Hightower at the ToJ. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

On May 3, 2018 at 9:08 AM, John Suburbs said:

It has long been my suspicion that the reason Mel did not succumb to the strangler is that she is already dead and has no need of breathing.

Interesting idea. But being resurrected by Rh'lor doesn't seem to make a person more capable of not dying again from mortal wounds(see Beric).

[Angel Eyes]

On 5/3/2018 at 0:08 PM, John Suburbs said:

It has long been my suspicion that the reason Mel did not succumb to the strangler is that she is already dead and has no need of breathing.

So she'd be perfectly fine in space?

[Varysblackfyre321]

On May 3, 2018 at 9:46 AM, zandru said:

WHEN will she begin to remember events honestly, instead of rewriting her most painful memories to depict herself as the Beautiful Young Princess of Song? WHAT might trigger this change in her?

When she's no longer a traumatized teenage girl if ever.  Her remembering things in a light that favors the version of the story she wants to be totally be true. It's perfectly human.  Arya does it with the Hand, wishing to totally condemn him for Mycach's death when he was sent to fetch a peasant accused of beating up the crown prince-that alone is a death sentence for someone like Mycavh. Daenarys would probably rail against the witch who cost her Drogo and her child but neglect the little detail of what Drogo did to her people and planned to do on others.

Robert bitches and moans on how he was forced to wear the crown (he wasn't).

Tyrion remembers everything Cersi had done wrong to him and claim it in response of having been born; and forget everything he did to actually earn her ire.

 

[Springwatch]

On 06/05/2018 at 3:22 PM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Other than the Un-Kiss she doesn't have false memories, ...

Terrific post on Lady's influence. It reminds me that Lady cleared a path through the crowd for Sansa. Sansa didn't have to ask, she just had to let Lady do it, which makes me think that Lady took the lead here - she's not just Sansa's reflection, she brings boldness and assertiveness to the partnership, which endures. Some of Sansa's more reckless interactions with Joffrey make me think there's a touch of Brandon there, a touch of Lyanna.

[John Suburbs]

17 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Interesting idea. But being resurrected by Rh'lor doesn't seem to make a person more capable of not dying again from mortal wounds(see Beric).

True, unless there is a difference between poison and a mortal wound like a lance through the chest or a sword cut from clavicle to breastbone, although I recall that Beric was hanged at some point, as well. But who's to say he ever actually died after his first resurrection. Mayhaps what Beric describes as "brought me back" was simply the healing of his wounds and the end of his shock from trauma.

17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So she'd be perfectly fine in space?

Lol, good question. I suppose it wouldn't be the lack of oxygen or even the cold that would do for her but the absence of air pressure.

[Springwatch]

On 01/05/2018 at 11:10 AM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I find your idea that Sansa will face mental assault by the Others intriguing. And yes her abillity to mask her true feelings and thoughts would come in handy there! Tell me more about this idea and why you came up with it?

I never properly answered this, but I've finally sorted my ideas out. I think there are 3 angles here:

• The (probable) mental control the Others have over the wights, as we have discussed. The experiences of Thistle and Hodor under mental control (basically mind rape). Sansa's outlook turning towards the North, where she will meet these things.
• The snow castle Sansa makes with Petyr has been analysed for meaning many times. I suspect it doesn't foreshadow the rebuilding of Winterfell, for practical reasons. I think it can represent the building of Sansa's mind into a fortress, which fits nicely with a number of quotes ("You hide behind courtesy as if it were a castle wall."; 'come-into-my-castle' which is a game for highborn children 'to teach them courtesy, heraldry, and a thing or two about their lord father's friends and foes'; and of course, "Come, wife, time to smash your portcullis. I want to play come-into-the-castle."
• GRRM's habit of taking the seeds of ideas from books he likes. The quotes I've been searching for come from Frank Herbert's book 'Children of Dune'. GRRM considers Frank Herbert one of the greats of SF and fantasy, as stated in this article from his website (1986):

  Quote

  [on the Campbell Award] 'One could say that John W. Campbell liked to discover, hone, and encourage new writers. One could also say that Moby Dick was a whale, that Stephen King sells a fair amount of books, and that it would take rather a long time to walk across the universe....

  Did it work? Do the names Frank Herbert, Jerry Pournelle, Ben Bova, Gordon R. Dickson, and Poul Anderson ring any bells? ...'

  Dune is a great series, so I'll continue in spoilers:

Spoiler

Dune is set in a universe where extraordinary mental powers exist. One is 'truthsay' - the ability to know without fail when someone lies. (I'm reminded of the House of Black and White here). Truthsayers are employed by all major powers.

The 'children' of the title are young twins, heirs to an emperor. The boy, Leto, who has limited powers to tell the future, knows he is being hunted to death and cannot escape. So he makes a plan with his sister Ghanima to fake his own death, while she achieves the unprecedented feat of brainwashing herself to believe it so completely that she can end the hunt by testifying to the death in front of a truthsayer.

Here's a quote from Leto, early in the book:

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By this time he knew that Ghanima had worked herself into the belief that he was dead. Only a tiny, isolated capsule of awareness would remain to her, a walled-off memory which could be recalled by words uttered in the ancient language shared only the two of them in all this universe. Secher Nbiw. If she heard those words: Golden Path ... only then would she remember him. Until then, he was dead.

This reminds me a bit of Hodor in his cave.

Another likely parallel from Dune is the idea of possession: a gifted person like Ghanima and her brother and aunt Alia are in constant danger of being overwhelmed by the persona of one of their ancestors - overwhelmed and taken over, and more or less operated as a puppet (this reminds me a lot of Thistle and Hodor).

When Ghanima comes out of her long period of self-deception, she finds that the brainwashing has left her with a defense against possession. This, I suspect, is the inspiration for Arya and Sansa learning to live a lie.

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'Behold me, family,' Leto said. 'I am Ari, the Lion of the Atreides. And here --' Again he shook Ghanima's arm with that powerful ease which set her whole body jerking. '-- here is Aryeh, the Atreides Lioness. We come to set you onto Secher Nbiw, the Golden Path.'

Ghanima, absorbing the trigger words, Secher Nbiw, felt the locked-away consciousness flow into her mind. It flowed with a linear nicety, the inner awareness of her mother hovering there behind it, a guardian at a gate. And Ghanima knew in that instant that she had conquered the clamorous past. She possessed a gate through which she could peer when she needed that past. The months of self-hypnotic suppression had built for her a safe place from which to manage her own flesh....

(I can't pass by the fairly startling appearance of 'Arry' and 'Arya' in the first paragraph, which is a good enough reason to play close attention to this scene.)

 

[The Mother of The Others]

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So she'd be perfectly fine in space?

Was about to say there's no fire in space.    ..... Withdrawn!   Literally the biggest of fires.   Like, really big and hot.    

Odd :    in Oz the Great and Powerful, the witches employed very Melisandre- ish necklace jewels and wand tip crystals as their power cores.   Mel's ruby safeguards the throat against poisons, but also glows at other times.  If you smashed it, how much of her would poof away into dust.   "Oh what a world, what a world!"   

Sansa had poison posing as precious stones.   Mel is already poison and thus cannot be poisoned?    Should they kiss?  (NBC television execs pre- marked the YES box, and they want it to happen during a Will and Grace crossover event with Game of Thrones.)

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

15 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Terrific post on Lady's influence. It reminds me that Lady cleared a path through the crowd for Sansa. Sansa didn't have to ask, she just had to let Lady do it, which makes me think that Lady took the lead here - she's not just Sansa's reflection, she brings boldness and assertiveness to the partnership, which endures. Some of Sansa's more reckless interactions with Joffrey make me think there's a touch of Brandon there, a touch of Lyanna.

Yes Sansa has a drop of the wolf blood as Ned refers to it. And Lady help awaken that in her, she's not had reason to defy conventional behavioural expectations before KL. But now she does you see it coming out. Sansa's learning to be Bastard Brave and Bastard Bold in the Vale too. Which again is about her breaking out of her courtesy armour. Armour she needed and employed to great effect in KL. But which she now can begin to cast off. I absolutely love her reckless interactions with Joffrey Maybe he will bring me your head is one of my favourite quotes! 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

On 07/05/2018 at 1:38 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Interesting idea. But being resurrected by Rh'lor doesn't seem to make a person more capable of not dying again from mortal wounds(see Beric).

Actually I agree. The strangeler does not inflict mortal wounds it constricts the throat muscles which shuts down the airway.  This is only a problem if you need to breath to live. In a Fire wight whose blood no longer flows, heart no longer beats, who does not need food or water to sustain them or sleep to repair their cells. What need is there of oxygen to breath? 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

15 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

although I recall that Beric was hanged at some point

Hanging isn't always about oxygen starvation though. There are two types one is the slow agonising death caused by throat constriction leading to oxygen deprivation and death. The other is spinal decapitation caused by a long sharp drop.