What if Lysa was killed by the Moon Tea?

[Angel Eyes]

Guess I’ll jump on the “what if” wagon. And this is the first of two on Lysa I might be doing.

So Lysa Tully got pregnant by Petyr Baelish and was forced by her father Hoster Tully to drink moon tea. The dosage nearly proved fatal. So what would have happened if the moon tea proved fatal for Lysa?

[Ylath's Snout]

On 6/4/2018 at 12:11 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Guess I’ll jump on the “what if” wagon.

Just watch out for the Dornish and their having a moan 

On 6/4/2018 at 12:11 AM, Angel Eyes said:

The dosage nearly proved fatal. So what would have happened if the moon tea proved fatal for Lysa?

LF would be "intercoursed" like you wouldn't believe. Sleeping with the daughter of the lord that took you in as a ward seems like a pretty big "nono", more so when it results in her death. So both Petyr's father and Hoster Tully would be livid with him. I don't think that he could ever show himself in the Riverland again. Maybe he would have to take the Black to avoid retaliation on him and his family.

Also would this happen before LF's ill fated duel with Brandon? 

Without Lyssas help LF wouldn't be able to do much of what he did during/before the books so that is a huge number of plotts missing. Hard to list them all TBH.

Varys would be able to scheme to his heart's content in KL.

The Seven Kingdoms economy might be a whole lot better if LF's graft was truly extensive.

Cersei, Jaime and their kids might be super dead. Without LF to incite Jon Arryn's murder then wouldn't they have been busted by Stannis and Jon?

---------

Also who would Cat marry? Ned seems like the likely answer but if Hoster has to chose isn't the Vale more appealing in many ways? The Vale seems a fair bit richer than the North with an army that can form up much quicker than the notoriously slow to get reach Northern army.

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

So Lysa Tully got pregnant by Petyr Baelish and was forced by her father Hoster Tully to drink moon tea. The dosage nearly proved fatal. So what would have happened if the moon tea proved fatal for Lysa?

Fatal? She would cease to breathe?

[Anck Su Namun]

Hoster would have stayed out of the rebellion.

[Dorian Martell's son]

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Guess I’ll jump on the “what if” wagon. And this is the first of two on Lysa I might be doing.

So Lysa Tully got pregnant by Petyr Baelish and was forced by her father Hoster Tully to drink moon tea. The dosage nearly proved fatal. So what would have happened if the moon tea proved fatal for Lysa?

 

5 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Just watch out for the Dornish and their having a moan 

I just want to point out that I was mentioned first in this story rewrite thread. I'm glad I made a lasting impression that will stick with these fan fic threads for the foreseeable future. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

4 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Fatal? She would cease to breathe?

Thread win 

[Kandrax]

My country would rule the world.

[zandru]

On 6/3/2018 at 5:33 PM, Ylath's Snout said:

The Seven Kingdoms economy might be a whole lot better if LF's graft was truly extensive.

Not only that, Robert may have ended up with a Master of Coin who actually did his job and told him, NO we don't have the funds for another Great Tourney and Banquet because you stopped collecting taxes from your friends. You'll have to either reinstate taxes and increase the rate, or you'll be living on salt pork and bowls of brown in another fortnight.

On 6/3/2018 at 5:33 PM, Ylath's Snout said:

Cersei, Jaime and their kids might be super dead. Without LF to incite Jon Arryn's murder then wouldn't they have been boosted by Stannis and Jon? 

This sounds good, too. And the Starks would still rule peacefully in the North, and be ready when the Others and their wights came south. Tywin would be stuck with a single, unsatisfactory offspring, unless he decided to quit his secret whoring and marry again (but would still need to get rid of the little guy, who would be next in line for The Rock.)

[Lord Lannister]

2 hours ago, zandru said:

Not only that, Robert may have ended up with a Master of Coin who actually did his job and told him, NO we don't have the funds for another Great Tourney and Banquet because you stopped collecting taxes from your friends. You'll have to either reinstate taxes and increase the rate, or you'll be living on salt pork and bowls of brown in another fortnight.

Maybe. Though given Robert's disdain for "counting coppers" such a person doesn't seem likely to last long in their post. Robert would soon replace them with a yes man of some sort and continue doing as he did. This might even make the realm face a financial crisis sooner. Whatever else Littlefinger did with his scheming, he was good at efficiently procuring revenue, which is as much how he got the position, with Lysa's influence. A replacement, especially a yes man, isn't likely to be as good. 

[Ylath's Snout]

6 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Maybe. Though given Robert's disdain for "counting coppers" such a person doesn't seem likely to last long in their post. Robert would soon replace them with a yes man of some sort and continue doing as he did. This might even make the realm face a financial crisis sooner.

In the long term that could have been better. If Robert gets a reality-check before he became totally apathetic to the kingship than maybe he'd change his behaviour.

[Ylath's Snout]

8 hours ago, zandru said:

This sounds good, too.

Well I don't see how this wouldn't result in civil-war considering BoB-B's "poor" temper.

That is going to be a mass no matter what.

[shameeka]

A little bit straying off the topic but I am curious as to how moon tea works. What are the ingredients? Do you have to drink it during the early stages of pregnancy to make it work or can it still work when you are like, nine months pregnant? What are the doses? Just one sip will do the trick or three cups everyday? Are they 100 % percent effective? Even modern day contraceptives and abortion pills are not 100% percent effective.

 

Also, abortion pills in real world have side effects like hemorrhage, fever, diarrhea, and infections. All of them are grave symptoms and can lead to death in a medieval world. I'm inclined to think that moon tea also has health risks but the women who take them seem to have no qualms. I mean seriously, did Hoster really want to abort Lysa's baby so much that he was willing to take the risk of killing his daughter?

[Springwatch]

2 hours ago, shameeka said:

A little bit straying off the topic but I am curious as to how moon tea works...

From all the evidence we've seen, it's the perfect fantasy contraceptive. No side effects, safe, widely available and 100% effective. Probably protects against disease too - we don't see a lot of that.

[Clegane'sPup]

3 hours ago, Springwatch said:

From all the evidence we've seen, it's the perfect fantasy contraceptive. No side effects, safe, widely available and 100% effective. Probably protects against disease too - we don't see a lot of that.

 

5 hours ago, shameeka said:

A little bit straying off the topic but I am curious as to how moon tea works. What are the ingredients? Do you have to drink it during the early stages of pregnancy to make it work or can it still work when you are like, nine months pregnant? What are the doses? Just one sip will do the trick or three cups everyday? Are they 100 % percent effective? Even modern day contraceptives and abortion pills are not 100% percent effective.

Religious views aside --- females have carried the brunt of pregnancy wanted or not. One could say, "She shouda kept her legs shut." OR one could say, "He shouda kept it in his pants."

There have been abortive processes throughout history.

Edit:  Lysa took advantage of a drunk LF.    If LF had taken advantage of a drunk Lysa it would be named... the drunk LF  thought his rise was for Cat. Who took advantage of whom.

[Corvo the Crow]

Hoster would still join the rebellion. Perhaps Jon Arryn gets a Frey bride to give him a loose tie with RL or perhaps a northern girl for the same with North. Hoster himself may have married again since the number of his children dropped to two and none are married yet. Little Finger remains the little lord of the smallest finger.

[shameeka]

10 hours ago, Springwatch said:

From all the evidence we've seen, it's the perfect fantasy contraceptive. No side effects, safe, widely available and 100% effective. Probably protects against disease too - we don't see a lot of that.

If GRRM's idea of moon tea is some magical contraceptive with no risks whatsoever, I will think that is lazy writing. and IIRC Lysa kept having miscarriages until Robert Arryn was born. I thought the moon tea damaged her womb somehow that that's why she had troubles in childbirth.

 

Back to the OP, I think Hoster would join the rebellion eventually but he will be like Walder Frey and try to determine who is the winner before participating fully. Littlefinger is kicked out of Riverrun and sent to his home. 

[Ylath's Snout]

4 hours ago, shameeka said:

IIRC Lysa kept having miscarriages until Robert Arryn was born. I thought the moon tea damaged her womb somehow that that's why she had troubles in childbirth.

I believe it is a combination of long term health problems stemming from Lysa's abortion and the fact that the Arryns are pretty inbred without any of whatever incest magic the Targs have.

[shameeka]

1 hour ago, Ylath's Snout said:

I believe it is a combination of long term health problems stemming from Lysa's abortion and the fact that the Arryns are pretty inbred without any of whatever incest magic the Targs have.

I don't know much about pathology. Are there incest related diseases that can be sexually transmitted?

[Ylath's Snout]

Just now, shameeka said:

Are there incest related diseases that can be sexually transmitted?

Not to the partner but inbreeding results in infertility and birth defects in any offspring.

So Lysa might have had better luck getting pregnant with another partner.

I watch a video that explains that the Targs are so inbred at several points in their history they should just not have been able to produce any offspring. So clearly they got some kinda BS going on that makes it less of a problem.

[Springwatch]

On 7/4/2018 at 6:09 AM, shameeka said:

If GRRM's idea of moon tea is some magical contraceptive with no risks whatsoever, I will think that is lazy writing....

Moon tea absolutely is that fantasy contraceptive and I suppose it is lazy, but it also serves as one of those useful plot devices, allowing sex to be included in that long list of inverse pairs which appear all over the story. So we have one group of people who are extremely permissive and at ease with sex, and another group who are very repressed and often sterile or sworn to chastity. An inverse pair. You can't have the first group without a good contraceptive/prophylactic (not in this kind of society anyway) - there can be no free love if everybody's afraid of pregnancy or disease following sex.

Having accepted all that, I'm not suddenly going to take moon tea seriously when it's used for a termination. Moon tea is just a cipher; it's an anti-fertility symbol.