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Son of Man

The danger of Gerold Dayne

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15 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Agree. I feel like if Jon is a Targ (probably yes) that should suffice.

But with Aerys II "taking liberties" left and right it can be very possible that there are few more Targs we are not aware of.

We are told that Aerys took liberties with Lady Joanna Lannister during her bedding in 263 AC. But he and Joanna are rumored to have had romantic history going back to when he was fourteen or fifteen years old in 259 AC, if not earlier.

Aerys certainly seems to have enjoyed the ladies, but we need to have good reason to suspect him of fathering a particular person, and there is no good reason to suspect that Ser Gerold was fathered by anyone except a Dayne.

Aerys is said to have visited Sunspear in 270 AC, and that certainly doesn't rule out that he could have fathered Ser Gerold, said to be in his late twenties in 300 AC, but we have no information that makes is likely that he fathered Ser Gerold.

Aside from all that, there is nothing dangerous to House Martell or House Baratheon-Lannister about an unknown bastard of Aerys, whose legitimate daughter has hatched three dragons and is about to make her way to Westeros.

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9 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

I feel bad pouncing on an honest typo, but don't you think Doran has enough to deal with through his gout, without giving him warts as well? :thumbsup:

:rofl:

I am sure all of the simpler theories have a better chance of being true, but since we have been waiting for years with no end in sight... I have wondered whether Gerold might be a descendant of Aerion Targaryen. The Princess and the Queen, supported by an SSM, foreshadowed that we would see several more claimants sit the Iron Throne before we finish the War for the Dawn. Maybe, just maybe, Darkstar will be one of them. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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My reading of it is that GRRM is simply trying to convey that Gerold is a badass and also that he is ruthless.  Hence it was a mistake to get him involved, which was borne out by his actions of attempting to kill Myrcella.

Having said that, I think GRRM has completely failed to convey this at all as our only real time spent with Gerold has him uttering possibly the lamest line in all the series ("I am of the night") and failing to kill an unsuspecting child.  So perhaps it does have something to do with his birth or something like that.  

Edited by Tagganaro

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8 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Ser Gerold Dayne's identity is not a mystery to be revealed. He wasn't "given the Dayne name to hide his real identity." He is a Dayne, a cousin of Ser Arthur Dayne, a knight of Starfall whose castle is High Hermitage.

With Ser Arthur and his lord brother dead, Ser Gerold is the only known living Dayne other than the preteen Lord Edric, who has disappeared into the Riverlands after having spent the years before that in the Stormlands with Lord Beric Dondarrion.

With Lord Edric missing with Lord Beric, Ser Gerold could very well attempt to claim Starfall for himself, and could perhaps even claim the last surviving sibling of Ser Arthur, Lady Allyria.

Aside from his possible claim to Starfall, he exists in the context of a Dorne that has been in a volatile state for over fifteen years since the Lannisters murdered Princess Elia and his children Aegon and Rhaenys.

Prince Doran is barely holding Dorne together against pressure from many to go to war against the Iron Throne, and Ser Gerold has just attempted to murder Princess Myrcella, and force Dorne into a war against the Iron Throne.

There is no need for some convoluted and baseless theory about Ser Gerold's identity to explain why Doran thinks or states that he is the most dangerous man in Dorne.

That is not to say that there is no Targaryen ancestry somewhere in the ancestry of Ser Gerold or/and Lord Edric, but there is no basis for the theory that they are some secret or hidden son of Aerys or some other Targaryen.

The second Daenerys Targaryen wed Prince Maron Martell a little over a century before the present time, and her children and descendants no doubt found their way into other Dornish houses.

And it's not inconceivable that Maekar (I)'s wife Dyanna Dayne already had Targaryen ancestry from some other source from before Maron wed Daenerys, such as a descendant of the daughters of Garmund Hightower and Princess Rhaena.

Gerold would not be dangerous if this is all there was to it.  

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11 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Agree. I feel like if Jon is a Targ (probably yes) that should suffice.

But with Aerys II "taking liberties" left and right it can be very possible that there are few more Targs we are not aware of.

Jon is Targ, Tyrion is, Mance is, Mel is, Varys is...now Darkstar. I've heard'em all.

Who's next? Littlefinger? 

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14 hours ago, Son of Man said:

Gerold would not be dangerous if this is all there was to it.  

There is nothing about being a bastard, a secret bastard at that, of a dead king from a deposed and exiled house, that would make a man dangerous. Nor do we have any reason to suspect that Ser Gerold, a knight of Starfall and cousin of Ser Arthur Dayne who proudly speaks of his ten thousand year old house, is anything except a Dayne paternally.

There is no need to invent conspiracies. Doran has been able to keep all of his most powerful houses from acting, despite their desire to rise up for Oberyn and for Elia and her children. Arianne's plot was bad enough as it is, but Ser Gerold would have murdered the daughter whose safety Doran had been entrusted with, and nothing would have prevented war then.

That he is a skilled fighter belonging to one of the most ancient and storied houses in Westeros, let alone Dorne, might give him more sway in getting other Dornish houses to go against the will of their liege, and openly provoke the Iron Throne. How long do you think Dornishmen will sit back while one of Tommen's Kingsguard hunts one of their noble knights?

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@Son of Man

Good question!

I'm pretty sold on the idea of The Daynes of High Hermitage being from Aerion Brightflame's line.

When little Maegor was passed over for the Throne, I reckon his nuncle Egg sent him to be raised by his maternal grandmother's family at Starfall.

As a compassionate individual, one can imagine Aegon V wanting to protect his brother's son from any potential mistreatment-or-manipulation - better to have the boy raised at Starfall by the honourable Daynes, than to risk him being growing up in the Red Keep, surrounded by politicians who might want to influence or harm Maegor.

Being the rightful heir, before he was passed over, Maegor could be a highly valuable tool for any power players who want to take the Throne - imagine him spending his youth hearing whispers about being "The Rightful King". Such a scenario could have spelled great trouble for Aegon The Unlikely's reign, especially considering the Blackfyres were still causing trouble.

As a big part of the reason that Maegor was passed over as king was the fear he may have inherited his father's madness, there's a strong chance that Aegon was advised to not allow him to be raised Targaryen. While it may sound cruel, Aerion Brightflame's son beign raised as a Dayne could do a lot to curtail the possibility of him "breaking the fingers of dragon lampooning puppeteers"or "trying to turn himself into a dragon by drinking wildfyre".

Going by this logic, I think High Hermitage was gifted to Maegor, who grew up as a Dayne, the public being convinced that he was a "child of a second son", or such. I've often said, the name "High Hermitage" implies a long wait, something that resonates well with Maegor being the rightful King.

As Maegor grew, there's also the possibility he was matched up with other Dayne females, to add a bit of dragon blood into the already powerful Dayne stock. Perhaps Maegor had daughters with a Dayne woman, with one of those daughters going on to marry the next heir to Starfall.

Flash forward a few generations and I reckon this is part of the reason Doran considers Gerold Dayne so dangerous. Whether or not Darkstar is aware of his own lineage is another question, however, I do think his bloodline also contains Martell DNA.

With the widow's peak, black streak in his hair and venom weaning, Darkstar might very well be the son of either the Red Viper, or the paramour loving Llewyn Martell.

Considering the current outrage amongst Dornish smallfolk, mainly due to the death of the beloved Oberyn, a skilled warrior like  Darkstar being revealed as a half-Martell could lead to some trying times for the Lords of Sunspear.

That said, I'm convinced Darkstar and Doran are working together.

 

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I have seen a couple of references to a widow's peak. Could someone please point me to the text indicating that Gerold has a widow's peak? 

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19 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

My reading of it is that GRRM is simply trying to convey that Gerold is a badass and also that he is ruthless.  Hence it was a mistake to get him involved, which was borne out by his actions of attempting to kill Myrcella.

Having said that, I think GRRM has completely failed to convey this at all as our only real time spent with Gerold has him uttering possibly the lamest line in all the series ("I am of the night") and failing to kill an unsuspecting child.  So perhaps it does have something to do with his birth or something like that.  

This^

Hes a highly skilled fighter roughly linked to a powerful house but its more about him being politicaly a loose cannon ...he is  intellegent, immoral ,desperate for fame and power and  following no ones lead which all  means hes dangerous in that hes unpredictable  and dorans doesnt need that in his carefully laid plans

In short grmm was doing the old troupe of making doran the old police chief complaining about that damn maverick cop who plays by his own rules ...all to make the lil emo seem badass! Hes basicaly red viper  lite/diet

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22 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I have seen a couple of references to a widow's peak. Could someone please point me to the text indicating that Gerold has a widow's peak? 

I haven't seen anything saying he had a widow's peak. The only thing i found that could be it was in AFFC; The Queenmaker

Quote

“My uncle brought me here, with Tyene and Sarella.” The memory made Arianne smile. “He caught some vipers and showed Tyene the safest way to milk them for their venom. Sarella turned over rocks, brushed sand off the mosaics, and wanted to know everything there was to know about the people who had lived here.”

“And what did you do, princess?” asked Spotted Sylva.

I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber knight had brought me here to have his way with me, she thought, a tall hard man with black eyes and a widow’s peak. The memory made her uneasy. “I dreamed,” she said, “and when the sun went down I sat cross-legged at my uncle’s feet and begged him for a story.”

but that seems like more a reference to Oberyn though its confusing how she said a robber knight

Edited by kleevedge

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22 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I have seen a couple of references to a widow's peak. Could someone please point me to the text indicating that Gerold has a widow's peak? 

He doesn't.

Quote

If there was a handsomer man in Dorne, she did not know him. Ser Gerold Dayne had an aquiline nose, high cheekbones, a strong jaw. He kept his face clean-shaven, but his thick hair fell to his collar like a silver glacier, divided by a streak of mindnight black. He has a cruel mouth, though, and a crueler tongue. His eyes seemed black as he sat outlined against the dying sun, sharpening his steel, but she had looked at them from a closer vantage and she knew they were purple. Dark purple. Dark and angry. (The Queenmaker, AFFC 21)

Oberyn, Sarella and Nym have widow's peaks. And Rattleshirt.

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18 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Why is that?

I don't really know, I don't have any solid reasons just small similarities. Both being half mad, Vulture king slicing off dondarrions nose and Darkstar slicing off Myrcellas ear, both starting an uprising or at least darkstar trying to. It's not very convincing but just a feeling I got when a read about him. While he may or may not be the blood of the vulture king i feel like he'll play a similar role

Edited by kleevedge

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18 minutes ago, kleevedge said:

I haven't seen anything saying he had a widow's peak. The only thing i found that could be it was in AFFC; The Queenmaker

but that seems like more a reference to Oberyn though its confusing how she said a robber knight

 

13 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

He doesn't.

Oberyn, Sarella and Nym have widow's peaks. And Rattleshirt.

I agree. Gerold Dayne DOES NOT have a widow's peak. 

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19 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

His eyes seemed black as he sat outlined against the dying sun, sharpening his steel, but she had looked at them from a closer vantage and she knew they were purple. Dark purple. Dark and angry.

 

25 minutes ago, kleevedge said:

I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber knight had brought me here to have his way with me, she thought, a tall hard man with black eyes and a widow’s peak.

I will admit these 2 quotes could make you think about the possibility of Darkstars Widow peak.

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Yup, no widows peak for Gerold Dayne, I got those confused

he has dark and angry eyes with a cruel mouth, is anyone described as having these features?

 

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2 hours ago, kleevedge said:

 

I will admit these 2 quotes could make you think about the possibility of Darkstars Widow peak.

The second one refers to Oberyn. 

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12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The second one refers to Oberyn. 

That's what I said. But it's just strange that Arianne was imagining having sex with Oberyn and referring to him as a robber knight

Edited by kleevedge

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3 minutes ago, kleevedge said:

That's what I said. But it's just strange that Arianne was imagining having sex with Oberyn and referring to him as a robber knight

Yeah, I don't think it was really all that strange... at least not after half a dozen re-reads. 

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