Why foster Theon with Ned?

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

4 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

When was he stupid? When he conquered the north?

Victarion and Aeron dont seem that smart but the other Greyjoys are all intelligent

He conquered the North because it was weakened. The Ironborn don't hold a single castle in the North as of ADwD. They gained little to know monetary gain from their exploits and lost a lot of men taking land they could not hold. It was idiotic. He could have struck out at the Reach (as Euron did) or the Westerlands, but he chose the barren North. I honestly have no idea what his long term plan was or if he even had one other than revenge on Ned Stark. As Ylath's Snout said, attacking someone you cannot defeat or even benefit from is generally not a smart move. Theon and Asha and Euron (perhaps the most, although I hate him) do seem slightly more intelligent,....but not really. Theon's plans all fall apart. Asha's plan to hold Stony shore (Kracken's point, i'm not sure exactly) is okay, but doesn't take into account that most Ironborn don't want to be farmers and although she tells Theon not to stay at Winterfell because he cannot hold it, she does the same at Deepwood Motte which she could not hold. Euron has yet to show his hand, so it hard to say for him. Balon is an idiot. 

[The Sleeper]

Robert didn't necessarily had to give Theon to someone. He could have taken him to King's Landing with him. Giving him to Ned doesn't need to be anything more than a sign of favor.

[Ylath's Snout]

4 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

He could have taken him to King's Landing with him.

... I am a bit scared to think about what Theon and Robert would get up to in you stuck em in King's Landing together.

[Mat92]

11 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

Ned probably took him because Robb was only a few years younger than Theon and he probably intended to foster a good relationship between them. 

Exactly. Thinking ahead to try and foster some good future relationships. Obviously things went very differently, but it's the same kind of thinking as strategic marriages.

[The Sleeper]

8 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

... I am a bit scared to think about what Theon and Robert would get up to in you stuck em in King's Landing together.

Yeah, it occurred to me too. I think Robert would have been Theon's role model and he would have been well on his way to alcoholism and a catching up to Robert's number of bastards. 

[Ylath's Snout]

14 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Yeah, it occurred to me too. I think Robert would have been Theon's role model and he would have been well on his way to alcoholism and a catching up to Robert's number of bastards. 

It'd be fun if Robert grew more fond of Theon than Joff. They do seem much more alike and while Theon certainly can be cruel he isn't the same sort of serial-killer in-the-making that Joff is.

I don't think that would end well for Theon is Cersei has anything to say about it.

[The Sleeper]

9 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

It'd be fun if Robert grew more fond of Theon than Joff. They do seem much more alike and while Theon certainly can be cruel he isn't the same sort of serial-killer in-the-making that Joff is.

I don't think that would end well for Theon is Cersei has anything to say about it.

I don't think he would have been as close to the royal family as a whole as he was in Winterfell. Considering he was just ten when he was taken and depending on the circumstances in which he was raised, he could have grown to be a considerably different person. 

[Ylath's Snout]

4 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

I don't think he would have been as close to the royal family as a whole as he was in Winterfell. Considering he was just ten when he was taken and depending on the circumstances in which he was raised, he could have grown to be a considerably different person. 

Mmmhmm, predicting that with any sort of accuracy would be impossible considering just how many important people are faffing about in King's Landing at that time.

[The Sleeper]

29 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Mmmhmm, predicting that with any sort of accuracy would be impossible considering just how many important people are faffing about in King's Landing at that time.

More or less, yes. It could range from being taken as Robert's squire to being left to his own devices, apart from being clothed and fed. 

[Ylath's Snout]

Just now, The Sleeper said:

to being left to his own devices, apart from being clothed and fed. 

I don't think Jon Arryn would let that happen.

[The Sleeper]

Just now, Ylath's Snout said:

I don't think Jon Arryn would let that happen.

Him being the responsible adult there, that is probably the case. He still might not have the time or attention to spare. 

[Hugorfonics]

7 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

First and foremost the Greyjoy rebellion was a dumb idea that cost him most of his children.

I thought it was a great idea. The Targaryens are done, the old way is back. 

If Doran or Viserys or GC had made their move things would be much different now

7 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

But also yes, he is unable hold the North and could have reaved much more valuable targets in the south. If there was some sort of deal cut with TYwin we never learn of it.

He did hold the north, at the time of his death the north looked very ironborn. He tried cutting deals with Tywin, Lannister stalled him.

7 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Starting wars you can't win in generally a bad idea.

Balon won his war, he conquered the north

7 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

IMHO you can be intelligent and still make dumb decisions. For example if you are blinded by baseless assumption or driven by manic character motivation.

e.g. Tywin's horrible treatment of Tyrion never produced  solid benefit for TYwin, it was just revenge on a child for things he had no control over and in the end resulted in Tyrion commiting kinslaying.

Sure, you can even by dumb and make intelligent decisions

6 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

He conquered the North because it was weakened. The Ironborn don't hold a single castle in the North as of ADwD. They gained little to know monetary gain from their exploits and lost a lot of men taking land they could not hold. It was idiotic. He could have struck out at the Reach (as Euron did) or the Westerlands, but he chose the barren North. I honestly have no idea what his long term plan was or if he even had one other than revenge on Ned Stark. As Ylath's Snout said, attacking someone you cannot defeat or even benefit from is generally not a smart move. Theon and Asha and Euron (perhaps the most, although I hate him) do seem slightly more intelligent,....but not really. Theon's plans all fall apart. Asha's plan to hold Stony shore (Kracken's point, i'm not sure exactly) is okay, but doesn't take into account that most Ironborn don't want to be farmers and although she tells Theon not to stay at Winterfell because he cannot hold it, she does the same at Deepwood Motte which she could not hold. Euron has yet to show his hand, so it hard to say for him. Balon is an idiot. 

By adwd Balon was dead and his captains all sailed home for the kingsmoot. Victarion was in possession of Moat Cailin, the north was secured during Balons reign. His mistake was thinking that banished Euron wont hire a faseless man to kinslay, thats not idiotic its unlucky

[Ylath's Snout]

1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said:

He did hold the north, at the time of his death the north looked very ironborn. He tried cutting deals with Tywin, Lannister stalled him.

Occupying some lands and having a secure hold on a territory and its people are two very different things.

2 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I thought it was a great idea. The Targaryens are done, the old way is back. 

So why piss away all your manpower on the least valuable land in Westeros with the least plunder?

[Ylath's Snout]

7 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Him being the responsible adult there, that is probably the case. He still might not have the time or attention to spare

I mostly meant that he would put some people incharge of looking after Theon. Between being Hand and dealing with Lysa & Sweet Robin he wouldn't have the time to look after THeon the same way he did Robert and Ned.

[Hugorfonics]

13 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Occupying some lands and having a secure hold on a territory and its people are two very different things.

They have Moat Cailin, how more secure could they get? Its feudalism, take the castles and the smallfolk will follow.

15 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

So why piss away all your manpower on the least valuable land in Westeros with the least plunder?

I thought we were talking about his 1st war, sorry.

Because... It had no defense? The war against Robb was taking candy from a baby

What manpower did Balon piss away? At the time of death the Ironfleet was still strong

[Bael's Bastard]

I wouldn't be surprised in Ned insisted on taking Theon himself, especially if there was a chance that Tywin might take him.

[Ylath's Snout]

37 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Because... It had no defense? The war against Robb was taking candy from a baby

Taking soggy cardboard from a baby.

Just because a plan doesn't fail the second is is launch doesn't mean that in the end it is was bad idea any way.

37 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

What manpower did Balon piss away? At the time of death the Ironfleet was still strong

Are you saying the Ironborn had no losses?

More to the point those losses resulted in no permanent gains and he lost the opportunity to strike other more valuable targets during the War of Five Kings.

37 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

They have Moat Cailin, how more secure could they get? Its feudalism, take the castles and the smallfolk will follow.

Clearly not very as they don't hold much of anything in the North going into tWoW.

I am not saying that attacking the North was insane but if Balon wanted riches or permanent liberty for the Iron Islands there were better tagerts.

-------------------------

39 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I wouldn't be surprised in Ned insisted on taking Theon himself, especially if there was a chance that Tywin might take him.

Could be.

[hodorisfaclessman]

8 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Robert didn't necessarily had to give Theon to someone. He could have taken him to King's Landing with him. Giving him to Ned doesn't need to be anything more than a sign of favor.

The whorehouses would be richer than the iron bank

[Hugorfonics]

3 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Taking soggy cardboard from a baby.

Soggy cardboard? Its land, a shitload of it. Farming, logging, whatevtagerts.likea little cold

3 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Are you saying the Ironborn had no losses?

Not nearly as many as the other lands who fought in the 5 Kings

3 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

More to the point those losses resulted in no permanent gains and he lost the opportunity to strike other more valuable targets during the War of Five Kings.

He held on to all the key castles in the north, it was the kingsmoot and Eurons war that sent the soldiers away, not the Norths

The north is valuable enough

3 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Clearly not very as they don't hold much of anything in the North going into tWoW.

That was Euron, not Balon

 

 

 If my father still lived, Moat Cailin would never have fallen. Balon Greyjoy had known that the Moat was the key to holding the north. Euron knew that as well; he simply did not care. No more than he cared what happened to Deepwood Motte or Torrhen's Square. "Euron has no interest in Balon's conquests. My nuncle's off chasing dragons." The Crow's Eye had summoned all the strength of the Iron Isles to Old Wyk and sailed out into the deepness of the Sunset Sea, with his brother Victarion following behind like a whipped cur.

3 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

I am not saying that attacking the North was insane but if Balon wanted riches or permanent liberty for the Iron Islands there were better tagerts.

Maybe, not at the price though. The north was desolate and Ned was dead, it couldnt be better.

[Bernie Mac]

4 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

 

So why piss away all your manpower on the least valuable land in Westeros with the least plunder?

Because it was the easiest to take, minimal casualties while Balon lived.