NFL 2018 V: The Packers Win With A Loss While The Cowboys Lose With A Win

[unJon]

9 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Still think we have a better roster than you guys overall. Mayfield gives you a slight advantage, but we have better WR’s (Green & Boyd>Landry and Callaway ), a better RB (Mixon>Chubb), Geno Atkins and Myles Garrett are probably a wash as far as pash rushers go. You guys have a better OL by far, but I like our secondary better. Our LB’s suck but I sincerely hope we address that this draft. Might come down to who lands the better HC... 

Let the battle for 3rd place in the AFC North begin!

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, unJon said:

Let the battle for 3rd place in the AFC North begin!

You misspelled 2nd place.

[unJon]

1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

You misspelled 2nd place.

I don’t think the Ravens will be that bad next year. 

[briantw]

6 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Still think we have a better roster than you guys overall. Mayfield gives you a slight advantage, but we have better WR’s (Green & Boyd>Landry and Callaway ), a better RB (Mixon>Chubb), Geno Atkins and Myles Garrett are probably a wash as far as pash rushers go. You guys have a better OL by far, but I like our secondary better. Our LB’s suck but I sincerely hope we address that this draft. Might come down to who lands the better HC... 

Mixon is greater than Chubb?  Really?  Chubb was just PFF's highest rated RB, and that's as a rookie. 

[Nictarion]

Just now, briantw said:

Mixon is greater than Chubb?  Really?  Chubb was just PFF's highest rated RB, and that's as a rookie. 

Mixon lead the AFC in rushing behind an absolutely terrible OL, and did it in only 14 games. I think he’s better. Chubb is pretty good too though. 

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Mixon lead the AFC in rushing behind an absolutely terrible OL, and did it in only 14 games. I think he’s better. Chubb is pretty good too though. 

I mean, Chubb didn't start until about week seven, and he led the NFL in yards after initial contact.  Chubb > Mixon by basically every metric this year.

And that's not me saying Mixon sucks.  He doesn't.  But Chubb is better.  

[Nictarion]

17 minutes ago, briantw said:

I mean, Chubb didn't start until about week seven, and he led the NFL in yards after initial contact.  Chubb > Mixon by basically every metric this year.

And that's not me saying Mixon sucks.  He doesn't.  But Chubb is better.  

Mixon would be an ALl Pro behind the Browns OL. I think you’re discounting exactly how bad the Bengals OL is. 

And Mixon also shares carries with Giovani Bernard. He had 9 games of 17  or less carries this season. My biggest gripe with Bill Lazor (our OC) is he doesn’t feed Mixon enough. 

[briantw]

Just now, Nictarion said:

Mixon would be an ALl Pro behind the Browns OL. I think you’re discounting exactly how bad the Bengals OL is. 

And Mixon also shares carries with Giovani Bernard. He had 9 games of 17  or less carries this season. My biggest gripe with Bill Lazor (our OC) is he doesn’t feed Mixon enough. 

Chubb shares carries with Duke Johnson, who is every bit as good as Gio.  They're basically the same player, to be honest.  

This is why I cited the yards after first contact statistic, because it helps account for the quality of the offensive line.  Further, the Browns offensive line wasn't even that good.  They were pretty poorly rated by PFF, but they overcame that due to the awesome playcalling of Freddie Kitchens, who managed to keep Baker from getting hit despite subpar OL play.  Mayfield got hit at one of the highest rates in the league while Haley was calling plays, and hit at the lowest rate by far with Kitchens calling plays,  It was the OC, not the line.

[Nictarion]

17 minutes ago, briantw said:

Chubb shares carries with Duke Johnson, who is every bit as good as Gio.  They're basically the same player, to be honest.  

This is why I cited the yards after first contact statistic, because it helps account for the quality of the offensive line.  Further, the Browns offensive line wasn't even that good.  They were pretty poorly rated by PFF, but they overcame that due to the awesome playcalling of Freddie Kitchens, who managed to keep Baker from getting hit despite subpar OL play.  Mayfield got hit at one of the highest rates in the league while Haley was calling plays, and hit at the lowest rate by far with Kitchens calling plays,  It was the OC, not the line.

I don’t put much stock into PFF tbh. But I’m wiling to concede Mixon and Chubb are damn close if you want to call RB a wash. 

Browns OL looked good to my eye test the few games i watched though. I know we certainly miss Zeitler down here. All you need to know regarding how bad ours is is that we started Bobby Hart ffs. 

[briantw]

6 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I don’t put much stock into PFF tbh. But I’m wiling to concede Mixon and Chubb are damn close if you want to call RB a wash. 

Browns OL looked damn good to my eye test the few games i watched though. I know we certainly miss Zeitler down here. We started Bobby Hart ffs. 

Well, the few games you watched were when the Browns destroyed the Bengals, which was when Kitchens was coaching, which was when Mayfield was going entire games without getting hit despite a subpar offensive line.  He was getting demolished constantly before Hue Jackson and Todd Haley were fired.  Like I said, the Browns were one of the worst teams in the league with regards to QB hits under Jackson/Haley, and were by far the best under Kitchens/Williams.  The main difference was that Kitchens knew he had a subpar line and schemed accordingly, calling quick pass plays on downs where he had less protection schemed and making sure he had seven guys blocking when he had long-developing pass plays.  

[Iskaral Pust]

Cowboys got two generous PI calls on third downs to keep that decisive drive alive.  But Seattle had a 3rd & 7 to hold them to a FG and fluffed it. 

Cowboys have outplayed them.  The Dallas run defense has controlled the game.  Seahawks need a miracle now and it doesn’t look remotely likely. 

[Nictarion]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

Well, the few games you watched were when the Browns destroyed the Bengals, which was when Kitchens was coaching, which was when Mayfield was going entire games without getting hit despite a subpar offensive line.  He was getting demolished constantly before Hue Jackson and Todd Haley were fired.  Like I said, the Browns were one of the worst teams in the league with regards to QB hits under Jackson/Haley, and were by far the best under Kitchens/Williams.  The main difference was that Kitchens knew he had a subpar line and schemed accordingly, calling quick pass plays on downs where he had less protection schemed and making sure he had seven guys blocking when he had long-developing pass plays.  

Do you think Nick Chubb is better than Barkley or Gurley? Or even Zeke? PFF is interesting to look at but they leave me scratching my head a lot of the time. 

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Do you think Nick Chubb is better than Barkley or Gurley? Or even Zeke? PFF is interesting to look at but they leave me scratching my head a lot of the time. 

I think he's better between the tackles than Barkley, but he's not a better overall athlete/prospect.  Barkley is electric in the passing game.  He's more comparable to David Johnson than a between the tackles back like Chubb. 

I think what you need to realize, though, is that PFF isn't rating these guys based on their fantasy scoring.  They're basing them on play by play efficiency.  Chubb scored highly because he led the league in yards after contact.  He's also got great vision, averaged 5.2 YPC, and rushed for four yards shy of 1000 yards despite only starting ten games.  

Not saying he's better than Gurley or Barkley.  But as far as efficiency on a carry by carry basis goes, he's absolutely in the conversation.  Main difference is that Barkley and Gurley and Zeke get basically all the work on their teams, whereas the Browns have Duke Johnson, who is a very good receiving back, and so he takes downs from Chubb.  None of those three teams has another back anywhere near as good as Duke.

[Nictarion]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think he's better between the tackles than Barkley, but he's not a better overall athlete/prospect.  Barkley is electric in the passing game.  He's more comparable to David Johnson than a between the tackles back like Chubb. 

I think what you need to realize, though, is that PFF isn't rating these guys based on their fantasy scoring.  They're basing them on play by play efficiency.  Chubb scored highly because he led the league in yards after contact.  He's also got great vision, averaged 5.2 YPC, and rushed for four yards shy of 1000 yards despite only starting ten games.  

Not saying he's better than Gurley or Barkley.  But as far as efficiency on a carry by carry basis goes, he's absolutely in the conversation.  Main difference is that Barkley and Gurley and Zeke get basically all the work on their teams, whereas the Browns have Duke Johnson, who is a very good receiving back, and so he takes downs from Chubb.  None of those three teams has another back anywhere near as good as Duke.

Looking at Duke Johnson’s stats it doesn’t seem like they even use him that much. 40 carries on the season, and never more than 5 in a game. 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Nictarion said:

Looking at Duke Johnson’s stats it doesn’t seem like they even use him that much. 40 carries on the season, and never more than 5 in a game. 

I mean, you basically just described Gio.  Only two games he got more than six were because Mixon was hurt, which I know because I happily started him in fantasy those two games.

Main difference is that Duke averaged five YPC to Gio's 3.8 and 9.1 YPR to Gio's 6.2.  He's basically a better Gio.

[Nictarion]

Just now, briantw said:

I mean, you basically just described Gio.  Only two games he got more than six were because Mixon was hurt, which I know because I happily started him in fantasy those two games.

Main difference is that Duke averaged five YPC to Gio's 3.8 and 9.1 YPR to Gio's 6.2.  He's basically a better Gio.

Gio wasn’t that good this year. Only the 2nd time in 6 years he dropped below 4ypc. He just couldn’t make much happen on his own like Mixon did so often. 

[dbunting]

Well the Cowboys finally won a playoff game and I couldn't watch it! I will get to see next weekends game, but it will likely have a very different ending. Not sure which team I would want them to play next. I am thinking I'd rather they face the Rams. Goffs' first playoff game and they won't have the Saints revenge factor on their side.

[Jace, Extat]

15 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Well the Cowboys finally won a playoff game and I couldn't watch it! I will get to see next weekends game, but it will likely have a very different ending. Not sure which team I would want them to play next. I am thinking I'd rather they face the Rams. Goffs' first playoff game and they won't have the Saints revenge factor on their side.

I'm not going out of my way to shit on your night, but that game did not a thing to dispel my identification of the Cowboys as a team that doesn't belong. 

Both Texas teams really. And I found the Colts performance as unsatisfying as the Cowboys, so know I'm not just chucking stones. 

Both of these teams will lose next week with a repeat performance. Sean Peyton is no Brian Schottenheimer and the Chiefs aren't going to be scoreless into the 4th.

ETA: Wrote Marty instead of Brian. Although that is also true.

 

[unJon]

Good defensive matchup to start off Sunday football. But damn, Ravens offense looks anemic. It’s the 2000 Ravens offense without quite having thei 2000 Ravens defense. 

[KingintheNorth4]

It might be Flacco time in the 2nd half.