Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[BlackLightning]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:37 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I would love it if someone made a documentary just about the backlash to season 8—how GOT went from being this pop culture phenomenon to overwhelmingly reviled. It would be fascinating to watch. 
 

Is there any way to find out how many copies of Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon sold? With movies you can just look at the box office, but it’s harder with books.

You could look at the bestseller lists I think

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 1/21/2022 at 5:37 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I would love it if someone made a documentary just about the backlash to season 8—how GOT went from being this pop culture phenomenon to overwhelmingly reviled. It would be fascinating to watch. 

Supercuts Delight did a series on Seasons 7 and 8 on Youtube. You could check that out. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

Now, since the "Your Opinions" thread has gone off the rails, to temporarily speak of our favorite topic: Jon's pecker. 

Spoiler

In that thread I was going to begin raving about how I would've preferred that Tormund joke about said pecker rather than the clusterfuck that was "I saw him riding that thing." First off, dickhead, one of those "things" died saving your sorry ass! Second, is it smart to call them "things" WITHIN EARSHOT OF DANY? 

Then we have the second clusterfuck of "He climbed on a dragon and fought!  What person climbs on a ****ing dragon? A mad man, OR A KING!" First off, turd, don't you remember that you climbed on a dragon? Sure, Tormund didn't fight, but still! Tormund must've gone temporarily blind when Dany was flying by. Second, why the hell is Jon being a turd and not saying something like "Hey, kids, remember that a certain silver haired queen was also flying about!"

 

[SeanF]

36 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Now, since the "Your Opinions" thread has gone off the rails, to temporarily speak of our favorite topic: Jon's pecker. 

  Hide contents

In that thread I was going to begin raving about how I would've preferred that Tormund joke about said pecker rather than the clusterfuck that was "I saw him riding that thing." First off, dickhead, one of those "things" died saving your sorry ass! Second, is it smart to call them "things" WITHIN EARSHOT OF DANY? 

Then we have the second clusterfuck of "He climbed on a dragon and fought!  What person climbs on a ****ing dragon? A mad man, OR A KING!" First off, turd, don't you remember that you climbed on a dragon? Sure, Tormund didn't fight, but still! Tormund must've gone temporarily blind when Dany was flying by. Second, why the hell is Jon being a turd and not saying something like "Hey, kids, remember that a certain silver haired queen was also flying about!"

 

Jon was bascially a jerk towards Daenerys, throughout most of Season 8.

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Jon was bascially a jerk towards Daenerys, throughout most of Season 8.

all the Starks were. and not just towards Dany. Jon was probably the nicest and most rational one.

2-3 years has past and I still don't understand how would Sansa be the smartest one and still tells a woman who has 2 dragons and has come to help them to piss off right to her face! she was downright lucky that Dany didn't kill people for being ungrateful jerks...

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, EggBlue said:

all the Starks were. and not just towards Dany. Jon was probably the nicest and most rational one.

2-3 years has past and I still don't understand how would Sansa be the smartest one and still tells a woman who has 2 dragons and has come to help them to piss off right to her face! she was downright lucky that Dany didn't kill people for being ungrateful jerks...

For sure, the Stark siblings became Lannisters with different hair colour.

I’m still a bit baffled by the whole thing.  Was I watching a deeply cynical tale in which Daenerys was used and betrayed by House Stark and her ostensible supporters?  Was Jon played for a fool by Sansa and Bran, before being cast into the wilderness? Was Bran the ultimate villain?

Or was it all a mess?

[EggBlue]

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

For sure, the Stark siblings became Lannisters with different hair colour.

I’m still a bit baffled by the whole thing.  Was I watching a deeply cynical tale in which Daenerys was used and betrayed by House Stark and her ostensible supporters?  Was Jon played for a fool by Sansa and Bran, before being cast into the wilderness? Was Bran the ultimate villain?

Or was it all a mess?

I honestly think it's possible that D&D had a drinking and/or drug problem whilst writing that last season! it certainly explains why they kinda forgot so many details. for instance:

Bran to Tyrion in one of the earlier episodes of the season: " I am the three eyed crow , I can't be lord of anything" 

Bran to Tyrion in the finale: "why do you think I came all the way here?" 

see? this can neither be a normal mess nor a well thought script... it's a high-mess.

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, EggBlue said:

I honestly think it's possible that D&D had a drinking and/or drug problem whilst writing that last season! it certainly explains why they kinda forgot so many details. for instance:

Bran to Tyrion in one of the earlier episodes of the season: " I am the three eyed crow , I can't be lord of anything" 

Bran to Tyrion in the finale: "why do you think I came all the way here?" 

see? this can neither be a normal mess nor a well thought script... it's a high-mess.

So much was sloppy writing.  Dany was quite clear at the end of Season 7 that she was marching North to destroy the Night King, once she’d seen the threat for herself.  And without pressing her claim to the North.  

Come Season 8, Jon was saying he had no choice but to bend the knee.  Either that’s contradicting what was previously established, or else Jon is a liar.

The White Walkers had been bigged up as a threat for seven seasons.  Come Season 8, and the people on the front line loathe the army that’s marching to their rescue - despite their king begging for their aid.

Dany “kinda forgot” about the Iron Fleet despite discussing them at her war council. The Dothraki were “finished as a people” before regenerating.  Bells meant surrender, despite it being already established they are a call to arms.  The killing of slavers and rapist Khals, portrayed as heroic in the relevant episodes, was suddenly branded as evil by Tyrion.  Tyrion himself became a complete moron etc. etc.

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

For sure, the Stark siblings became Lannisters with different hair colour.

I’m still a bit baffled by the whole thing.  Was I watching a deeply cynical tale in which Daenerys was used and betrayed by House Stark and her ostensible supporters?  Was Jon played for a fool by Sansa and Bran, before being cast into the wilderness? Was Bran the ultimate villain?

Or was it all a mess?

Well, ASOIAF is deeply cynical and GRRM wanted to show the realistic effects of situations in fantasy. Plus the fact that trying to do the right thing (trying to save kids, avert war, rescue your siblings) is always, always met with getting backstabbed.

Edited February 15 by Angel Eyes

[BlackLightning]

6 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Now, since the "Your Opinions" thread has gone off the rails, to temporarily speak of our favorite topic: Jon's pecker. 

Ewww....people still call it a pecker.

That's something my dad would say and he grew up in the 1970s and early 1980s. LOL Jaenaera love, you're dating yourself.

 

I remember when I brought up the gigantic blooper error about Grey Worm's dick print being ABSOLUTELY visible through his clothing in the very last episode of the series and why it was such a big problem but no one paid attention. 

I guess it must only be the people in the General ASOIAF section of the forum who care about penises lol

32 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, ASOIAF is deeply cynical and GRRM wanted to show the realistic effects of situations in fantasy. Plus the fact that trying to do the right thing (trying to save kids, avert war, rescue your siblings) is always, always met with getting backstabbed.

I completely disagree.

ASOIAF is probably less cynical than it is realistic.

Forget the politics--the medieval European world was absolutely brutal. Even so they still had standards (i.e. chivalry, honor, duty, etc.)

 

Trying to do the right thing does not mean getting backstabbed. That's how it is portrayed in the later seasons of the show but not in the earlier, more accurate seasons and definitely not in the book series.

I think people think that "doing the right thing in this world gets you backstabbed and killed" which is not only deeply troubling and very irritating (I consider people like that to be brainwashed by D&D) but completely inaccurate. It's a egregious oversimplification of the story.

Ned did the right thing by protecting innocent children from political assassination and exploitation. That's not where he messed up at.

Ned did not do the right thing when he:

1. told Cersei everything that he was planning to do
2. waited almost an entire week (!!!) before doing ANYTHING about it
3. failed to tell Robert the truth when Robert was still alive
4. refused to work with Renly
5. took way too long to send Arya and Sansa away

Edited February 15 by BlackLightning

[Jaenara Belarys]

16 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

That's something my dad would say and he grew up in the 1970s and early 1980s. LOL Jaenaera love, you're dating yourself.

 

Selfcest? 

[Darryk]

21 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, ASOIAF is deeply cynical and GRRM wanted to show the realistic effects of situations in fantasy. Plus the fact that trying to do the right thing (trying to save kids, avert war, rescue your siblings) is always, always met with getting backstabbed.

Dunno if this is sarcasm or not, but I don't see ASOIF as cynical. It has a strong element of tragedy, cause and effect, the cost of the choices we make etc, but it also has heart and a sense of poetry to it.

The show was deeply cynical and mostly devoid of heart (except for the first season, and there were some strong emotional scenes in the 4th season) or poetry.

[Darryk]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:45 PM, EggBlue said:

all the Starks were. and not just towards Dany. Jon was probably the nicest and most rational one.

2-3 years has past and I still don't understand how would Sansa be the smartest one and still tells a woman who has 2 dragons and has come to help them to piss off right to her face! she was downright lucky that Dany didn't kill people for being ungrateful jerks...

 

On 2/15/2022 at 9:51 PM, SeanF said:

For sure, the Stark siblings became Lannisters with different hair colour.

I’m still a bit baffled by the whole thing.  Was I watching a deeply cynical tale in which Daenerys was used and betrayed by House Stark and her ostensible supporters?  Was Jon played for a fool by Sansa and Bran, before being cast into the wilderness? Was Bran the ultimate villain?

Or was it all a mess?

The tension between the Stark siblings and Dany was just inexplicable.

They don't like her, just because? Were D+D trying to suggest that powerful female characters will always be jealous of each other? 

[SeanF]

Just now, Darryk said:

 

The tension between the Stark siblings and Dany was just inexplicable.

They don't like her, just because? Were D+D trying to suggest that powerful female characters will always be jealous of each other? 

It could have been developed quite well, on the basis of differing political goals.  It made no sense for them to hate her from the outset, even to the point of Sansa flouncing out of the post-fight banquet rather than take part in a toast to Daenerys.

[EggBlue]

7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It could have been developed quite well, on the basis of differing political goals.  It made no sense for them to hate her from the outset, even to the point of Sansa flouncing out of the post-fight banquet rather than take part in a toast to Daenerys.

they could write a season in which the tensions between Starks and Daenerys brings about chaos . but all they did was LF informing Sansa about Dany's breathtaking beauty and then Sansa and Arya teaming up playing mean girl to Dany. 

between handling the hostility between Stark girls-Dany , the sentence " at the end of the day , Cersei's just a scared little girl needing to be held by her brother/lover" (paraphrase) and Sansa's "rape benefits" , I've come to conclusion that D&D's knowledge of women is that of a pair of 13 year old boys. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

42 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

between handling the hostility between Stark girls-Dany , the sentence " at the end of the day , Cersei's just a scared little girl needing to be held by her brother/lover" (paraphrase) and Sansa's "rape benefits" , I've come to conclusion that D&D's knowledge of women is that of a pair of 13 year old boys. 

I believe a pair of thirteen year old boys will have more knowledge about a good screenwrite, if they're obsessed enough. Barring that, they only need one good, solid nerd and some basic damn manners. 

[EggBlue]

seriously , I feel like D&D deceived us! 

I used to watch GoT with my sister and before season 8 was released, we started watching episodes that showrunners had recommended watching before final season. assuming those episodes to be the ones with clues about WWs , we started binge watching with a silly excitement! as if White Walkers were to be remotely relevant or important in the final season! we even realized they were nothing more than the episodes with the surviving characters , yet, we hoped the final season makes up season7's mess and kept theorizing about what would happen.. 

fun fact is before season 8 we were actually rooting for Sansa to be Queen in the North or Lady of Winterfell , only it felt so unearned that we loathed it! so much for fan service...

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, EggBlue said:

fun fact is before season 8 we were actually rooting for Sansa to be Queen in the North or Lady of Winterfell , only it felt so unearned that we loathed it! so much for fan service...

I don't actually mind fan service, if it's done well. Take Rogue One for example. Great movie, in my opinion, I loved the characters (especially Krennic, I have a thing for liking the bad guys. Plus, that cape looked so cool and it's not the idiotic sequel trilogy). Yet one of the critics called it fanservice (the full quote was "Rogue One is filled with fan service, but when it's done this well, it's hard to complain"). Season 8, while full of fanservice, was most certainly not as good as R1. 

[EggBlue]

41 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I don't actually mind fan service, if it's done well. Take Rogue One for example. Great movie, in my opinion, I loved the characters (especially Krennic, I have a thing for liking the bad guys. Plus, that cape looked so cool and it's not the idiotic sequel trilogy). Yet one of the critics called it fanservice (the full quote was "Rogue One is filled with fan service, but when it's done this well, it's hard to complain"). Season 8, while full of fanservice, was most certainly not as good as R1. 

that's exactly my point. no one hates fanservice.. it's called fanservice for a reason! but it should be executed well and within the logistic of the movie/series. for example while Sansa's promotion didn't make any sense for a million reasons including her brother becoming High King , Arya/Gendry getting together was something hinted ever since season 2 . but somehow they ruined it! they had every opportunity to make their sex scene tasteful and Arya's rejection of Gendry heartbreaking but understandable (I'm not getting into the fact that proposals don't exist in Westeros!) ;yet,  all they gave us was "Meh"..

[Angel Eyes]

On 2/16/2022 at 7:05 PM, EggBlue said:

seriously , I feel like D&D deceived us! 

I used to watch GoT with my sister and before season 8 was released, we started watching episodes that showrunners had recommended watching before final season. assuming those episodes to be the ones with clues about WWs , we started binge watching with a silly excitement! as if White Walkers were to be remotely relevant or important in the final season! we even realized they were nothing more than the episodes with the surviving characters , yet, we hoped the final season makes up season7's mess and kept theorizing about what would happen.. 

fun fact is before season 8 we were actually rooting for Sansa to be Queen in the North or Lady of Winterfell , only it felt so unearned that we loathed it! so much for fan service...

In the case of Sansa, I guess it's partially what was expected that she would be Queen or Lady of Winterfell, but I think her plot would have been better served if she had found someone who loved Sansa for her, as Sansa is broken down throughout the first three books to the point that she's accepted that nobody loves her for herself, and is making up delusions to compensate for that (UnKiss).