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Euron III Greyjoy

Skinchanging a dead body

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Would skinchanging into a dead body be easy? Would it still require a powerful skinchanger such as Bran or Bloodraven, or could someone like Jon or Arya do it? 

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Like an 8 ohm loudspeaker.  A dead body will have less resistance to the remote controller.  That's how the Others control many wights at the same time.  The dead do not protest.  A live body with strength of will has a lot of resistance and is not going to be controllable.  

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25 minutes ago, The Gizzard of Oz said:

Like an 8 ohm loudspeaker.  A dead body will have less resistance to the remote controller.  That's how the Others control many wights at the same time.  The dead do not protest.  A live body with strength of will has a lot of resistance and is not going to be controllable.  

I was thinking the same thing. I'm just surprised we haven't heard of it being done before in the past, since it seems like such a useful thing to be able to do. Maybe its some kind of unspoken rule amongst skinchangers not to do it, since it would be pretty disrespectful towards the dead. 

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Should be easy.  It's not like they can refuse.  

3 hours ago, The Gizzard of Oz said:

Like an 8 ohm loudspeaker.  A dead body will have less resistance to the remote controller.  That's how the Others control many wights at the same time.  The dead do not protest.  A live body with strength of will has a lot of resistance and is not going to be controllable.  

What make the WW special is their ability to simultaneously control and coordinate a mass of dead corpses.  Maybe the skin change ability originated from them and that's why they do it better.  

3 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I was thinking the same thing. I'm just surprised we haven't heard of it being done before in the past, since it seems like such a useful thing to be able to do. Maybe its some kind of unspoken rule amongst skinchangers not to do it, since it would be pretty disrespectful towards the dead. 

There are ethics involved but the WW follow different rules.  A weak warg like the ones mentioned should be able to do this to a dead body but perhaps not enough to make that body dance gracefully.  The control is not going to have precision.  

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I'm not so sure it would be easy to skinchange a dead person.   That bit about the lack or resistance is a good point, but what about zero resistance or anything to "hold" a warg?  There is no consciousness.   Maybe that's exactly what the lumbering wights are--just skinchanged dead?   My thoughts jumped to Coldhands when I read the OP.   He's a mess, poor guy, but he is sentient.  I don't think that's skinchanged--it's something else.   Magic different than what animates the wights of the Others. Coldhands is dead though, we know "they killed him long ago".  Summer's thoughts are not given human words--thinking that snake in the sky moment Bran experiences.   Bran sort of hangs out in Summer, experiencing vicariously through Summer, where his experiences in Hodor seem to be much more Bran or at least human.  Bran even thinks he could go into Hodor in order to comfort Meera, so yah, I think Bran has a lot more control over Hodor than Summer.   Hodor has a consciousness that is obviously malleable.   Does that consciousness or ability to accept another consciousness into your own make a difference in skinchanging?   

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Hodor is the same species as Bran.  The link translates better.  It's a different experience with Summer because the wolf doesn't have the same thought processes as a human.  He's an instinctive animal.  Rules and morality do not apply in the wolf's mind.  It feels hunger, it hunts.  It's drawn to the pack for survival.  Hodor is simple but he's still human.  He cares for Bran out of friendship.  It's not because of a bond or some instinctual thing.  

 

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I would assume it's actually pretty difficult. The magic of the children, such as skinchanging, seems to be incompatible with the magic of the Others, which animates the wights. If a warg could control wights, surely Bloodraven would have taken over the dozens that attacked Bran outside his hollow? He's more than powerful enough to be literally everywhere in the Seven Kingdoms and take over the bodies of ravens, wolves, and any other living creatures, (except humans, since Bran is the only one shown to successfully do this, also being taboo and all), but it seems he couldn't stop the wights from attacking his successor and the best real hope the realms of men have for survival. This seems to indicate a pretty clear limit to his power. 

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Skinchanging, reanimating the dead (via the Others), and reanimating the dead (via the kiss of fire) seem to be three fundamentally different processes. It would be unsound to lump them all together.

Skinchanging into a dead body is not even something we know can be done. In fact, everything in the Varamyr chapter says it can't be done: when Varamyr fails to take over Thistle, he doesn't/can't go back to his own body, he goes to One-Eye the wolf.

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I don't think skinchanging can be done on a soul-less dead body

Skinchanging/Wargs, to me, is essentially "soul sharing"

  • Wargs like Bran and the other Stark kids "soul share" with their direwolves. Sometimes a soul-sharing can be rejected, for example: a living human to another living human
  • Ice wights start out as soul-less dead bodies that are given new brand new evil ice souls by the Others ... the new soul re-animate parts of the bodies that Others only need ... like their vocal cords to talk, but not their lungs to breathe (like Coldhands)
  • Fire wights start out as are soul-less dead bodies that are given their original soul & fire back, after someone else passes their own soul & fire for him/her (unless you are a R'hllor priest, I guess you can resurrect someone important as many times as R'hllor allows)

 

Basically:

  • Warging = Soul sharing
  • Others' Resurrection = New soul given
  • R'hllor's Resurrection = Old soul restored

 

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On 4/24/2019 at 3:29 PM, Ser Leftwich said:

Skinchanging, reanimating the dead (via the Others), and reanimating the dead (via the kiss of fire) seem to be three fundamentally different processes. It would be unsound to lump them all together.

Skinchanging into a dead body is not even something we know can be done. In fact, everything in the Varamyr chapter says it can't be done: when Varamyr fails to take over Thistle, he doesn't/can't go back to his own body, he goes to One-Eye the wolf.

This. 

I agree. Varamyr wouldn't be so hell bent on finding someone to warg into if he could just warg into his own dead body right? Also the most information we have about skin changing comes from his chapter. He would have at least mentioned it if it were possible. 

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