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3 minutes ago, ARYa_Nym said:

Well, no not everyone who tried before died. Elissa was never reported to have died and it's implied she ended up in Asshai. Euron returned from his sails around the world. Jaenara Belaerys who did something similar by going further south than anyone before eventually returned to Valyria. 

 

She only said she wouldn't go north again but she can always return to other places like Braavos or to see Nymeria one day if she wants. She did say in the books that she might not return unless she wants to.

 

 When Jon invited her beyond the Wall it's not like she would want to stay there with him. All the Starks are separate from each other now doing their own thing. 

The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives....making this a very, very strange ending for the Starks, because every one of them is now a lone wolf. 

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives....making this a very, very strange ending for the Starks, because every one of them is now a lone wolf. 

It also makes it an odd comparison to Nymeria. Nymeria the wolf is not alone and she is not travelling. She is settled in the Riverlands with her wolf cousins. A family. I don't feel it. If others do, fine but it doesn't sit right to me at all.

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Just now, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Elissa disappeared and we only have the word of Corlys that the ship survived. I dont recall Euron ever saying he did it. He said he went to Valyria. Sothoryos is a different thing altogether. 

 

Jon was going to stay at Castle Black and she would visit him. Arya said she was never going North again, not even to visit her own brother. Its that, which allows him to go off with Tormund. He's not waiting for her. Its not a case of maybe in a few years. Jon is going off grid.

Showing that the ship survived points towards her living. Again, there is no confirmation of death. 

 

Euron said he went all over.

 

Jon was going to go there anyway as Tormund already gave him that idea earlier and there's nothing really for him to do at the Wall. Not to mention, he may have just been going with them to see where they resettle as someone from the 7 Kingdoms has to be a witness. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives....making this a very, very strange ending for the Starks, because every one of them is now a lone wolf. 

The full quote is when the white winds blow though. I think it's saying when time is tough/harsh winters the Starks stay together. But the Night King is defeated so the quote no longer applies. Hence A Dream of Spring.

 

Quote

“Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths.”

Excerpt From: George R R Martin. “A Game of Thrones Enhanced Edition.” Apple Books. 

 

Edited by ARYa_Nym

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

It also makes it an odd comparison to Nymeria. Nymeria the wolf is not alone and she is not travelling. She is settled in the Riverlands with her wolf cousins. A family. I don't feel it. If others do, fine but it doesn't sit right to me at all.

I guess it's how you look at it. I would say Nymeria's family is Ghost yet she is not with him. She left and created a life of her own and they probably won't reunite. 

 

ETA: Not to mention, Nymeria has a new pack but it was also reported that she kills any of them that tries to mount her. I see her as their "queen" and they're her subordinates not so much family. I don't see her and Ghost behaving that way towards each other because they're actually family.

Edited by ARYa_Nym

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It seems to me they all embraced a new pack. Arya has her ship and crew, like Nymeria and her mini wolves, Jon has the wildlings cause he is one of them. His best days were with them and they will be loyal to him and he to them. Bran has the world as his pack - and a new "family" in the capital, proving some Stark men can successfully navigate below the Neck.

And then there is Sansa ------ Sansa has finally gotten the family she wanted ----- people who will bow down and kiss her ass, dress her, etc - and since there must be a Stark in Winterfell it might as well be here lame boring ass.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, ARYa_Nym said:

I guess it's how you look at it. I would say Nymeria's family is Ghost yet she is not with him. She left and created a life of her own and they probably won't reunite. 

 

ETA: Not to mention, Nymeria has a new pack but it was also reported that she kills any of them that tries to mount her. I see her as their "queen" and they're her subordinates not so much family. I don't see her and Ghost behaving that way towards each other because they're actually family.

Quote

. Some of her little grey cousins were afraid of men, even dead men, but not her. Meat was meat, and men were prey. She was the night wolf. But only when she dreamed.

Quote

Her nights were bathed in moonlight and filled with the songs of her pack, with the taste of red meat torn off the bone, with the warm familiar smells of her grey cousins. Only during the days was she alone and blind.

Its always about family. I suspect the whole thing about not being mounted is about Arya's own sexuality, she hasn't bled yet

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

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3 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Its always about family. I suspect the whole thing about not being mounted is about Arya's own sexuality, she hasn't bled yet

It's Nymeria who kills her "cousins". I doubt she would kill Summer or Ghost. Arya doesn't warg her all the time and the times she did wasn't when Nymeria was killing them for doing that. 

 

I would say Nymeria doesn't want them because she's a direwolf and her grey cousins aren't the same as a direwolf. She won't see one as an alpha. 

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3 minutes ago, ARYa_Nym said:

It's Nymeria who kills her "cousins". I doubt she would kill Summer or Ghost. Arya doesn't warg her all the time and the times she did wasn't when Nymeria was killing them for doing that. 

 

I would say Nymeria doesn't want them because she's a direwolf and her grey cousins aren't the same as a direwolf. She won't see one as an alpha. 

Entirely possible. But what does that say about Arya? Arya who hates status?

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Just now, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Entirely possible. But what does that say about Arya? Arya who hates status?

Nymeria had to go outside of her traditional structure to get power though. Had Ghost been around he would have been the king of the pack as he is bigger. 

Nymeria could have gone back north to her home and found a direwolf for herself (I believe it was said that there might be some hidden away somewhere) if she wanted to. Or she could have tried to find Ghost. 

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1 minute ago, ARYa_Nym said:

Nymeria had to go outside of her traditional structure to get power though. Had Ghost been around he would have been the king of the pack as he is bigger. 

Nymeria could have gone back north to her home and found a direwolf for herself (I believe it was said that there might be some hidden away somewhere) if she wanted to. Or she could have tried to find Ghost. 

The way you talk about it actually reminds me of Sansa more and how she ends up on the show. She's the real alpha now and Jon has had to go North for that to happen. With Jon gone she is free to rule and she does so alone.

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16 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Its always about family. I suspect the whole thing about not being mounted is about Arya's own sexuality, she hasn't bled yet

That’s in the books, and even there Martin said she will flower “soon”. Show wise she’s had sex and seemed to enjoy it. And I say, good for her. 

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2 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

The way you talk about it actually reminds me of Sansa more and how she ends up on the show. She's the real alpha now and Jon has had to go North for that to happen. With Jon gone she is free to rule and she does so alone.

I don't know that Sansa will reject her suitors like Nymeria though. The future of House Stark relies on her now. If she has no heirs the house is done and she knows this. 

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1 hour ago, ARYa_Nym said:

I remember it was posted online years ago that GRRM said that Arya and Gendry had different paths (I don't have the link now) so the fact that they didn't end up together made sense.

It was a hearsay tweet: a friend of an alleged gendrya fanfic writer asked George about Gendrya (in some fashion, we don't even know what was asked) and allegedly he immediately shot Gendrya down and said they had different paths. And the fanfic writer was heartbroken. One of the problem is that we do not have an actual transcript of the literal question by that friend. The second is that George is very coy about the fate of almost all his characters, but certainly his main characters, and would say something along the lines of "keep reading". The third is that he hates fanfic.

To a Jonarya fan though he mentioned that he would revisit "them" [Gendry and Arya]. At the time she asked, George did not know she was a Jonarya fan, but from the transcript I personally have, it's clear that George initially had the impression that she asked after Gendry and Arya for romance-plot reasons. He smiled and then said he would revisit them. She then went on to ask about Arya's flowering, which he confirmed to occur soon, but also reminding her that both Arya and Gendry are still very young. This fan asked, because she sought confirmation of the hearsay claim you cite above.

So, they will be revisited in a romantic sense, but the ultimate outcome of that is left open, and I would highly doubt that George would reveal characters' romantic final outcome after two books of romantic set-up in the way that tweet claimed.

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1 hour ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

It also makes it an odd comparison to Nymeria. Nymeria the wolf is not alone and she is not travelling. She is settled in the Riverlands with her wolf cousins. A family. I don't feel it. If others do, fine but it doesn't sit right to me at all.

Agreed.

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3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It was a hearsay tweet: a friend of an alleged gendrya fanfic writer asked George about Gendrya (in some fashion, we don't even know what was asked) and allegedly he immediately shot Gendrya down and said they had different paths. And the fanfic writer was heartbroken. One of the problem is that we do not have an actual transcript of the literal question by that friend. The second is that George is very coy about the fate of almost all his characters, but certainly his main characters, and would say something along the lines of "keep reading". The third is that he hates fanfic.

To a Jonarya fan though he mentioned that he would revisit "them" [Gendry and Arya]. At the time she asked, George did not know she was a Jonarya fan, but from the transcript I personally have, it's clear that George initially had the impression that she asked after Gendry and Arya for romance-plot reasons. He smiled and then said he would revisit them. She then went on to ask about Arya's flowering, which he confirmed to occur soon, but also reminding her that both Arya and Gendry are still very young. This fan asked, because she sought confirmation of the hearsay claim you cite above.

So, they will be revisited in a romantic sense, but the ultimate outcome of that is left open, and I would highly doubt that George would reveal characters' romantic final outcome after two books of romantic set-up in the way that tweet claimed.

Thanks.

 

That aligns with the show. They did revisit earlier in Season 8 and then they went on different paths.

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27 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Its always about family. I suspect the whole thing about not being mounted is about Arya's own sexuality, she hasn't bled yet

Yes, that is what I infer too. Arya isn't sexually mature yet, nor has she had her menstruation yet. With Arya in Braavos and with the FM, George needed various ways to show that Arya's sexually maturing, but not there yet. He does that through Nym fighting off any wolf trying to mount her, and her fangirly interest in any gossip about the courtesans of Braavos.

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Just now, sweetsunray said:

Yes, that is what I infer too. Arya isn't sexually mature yet, nor has she had her menstruation yet. With Arya in Braavos and with the FM, George needed various ways to show that Arya's sexually maturing, but not there yet. He does that through Nym fighting off any wolf trying to mount her, and her fangirly interest in any gossip about the courtesans of Braavos.

Agreed. Arya is clearly also interested in the courtesans when she slips and says they (The Black Pearl?) are beautiful. Arya has an interest in pretty things that make her look and smell nice. She is just in that awkward in-between stage where she is not sure to present herself yet.

Seeing Arya as her own version of Brandon the Shipwright Stark and Nymeria, a sea queen, isn't my favorite decision for her, but at least she has her own agency. And her hero, Nymeria, was a lover.

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Posted (edited)

My issue is her sailing to the unknown with only one ship.  Columbus had an idea, albeit incorrect, where he was going and took 3.  Additionally, my understanding of the Vikings leads me to believe they would have had more than a single ship as well when sailing the North Atlantic.

Edited by the Other Wolf

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, ARYa_Nym said:

Thanks.

 

That aligns with the show. They did revisit earlier in Season 8 and then they went on different paths.

Except that show-Gendry fulfills two book roles that of Gendry and Edric Storm. You seem to think that Edric will wind up dead, and the Stepstones do sound like a dangerous area to be at around aDwD. However, Edric is the sole acknowledge male Baratheon bastard and then there's Mya Stone.

In order for Gendry to become legitimized, he would need to be acknowledged by a king or queen. The sole one in the books who can presume to have this jurisdiction is Stannis, and he would rather offer Robert's bastard to the fire than acknowledge him let alone legitimize him. Gendry is unlikely to meet Stannis, as Stannis eventually will be doomed because Mel ends up burning Shyreen, and she wouldn't burn Shyreen if she had a bastard as alternative.

Instead Edric Storm seems to be put in the pathway of Dany or any of her allies. Since he's already acknowledged, she can far more easily legitimize him.

That doesn't mean that Gendry's relation to Robert goes unnoticed. Tom Sevens' song implies some of the BwB recognize his father in him. LS seems to know, because she keeps Gendry away from the BwB who actually do most of the fighting, and has the inn where he is stationed guarded by the veterans. And Brienne knows. Meanwhile Gendry's thematically deeply entrenched in Arya's story.

There are two Edrics in the story (apart from Ned Stark): Edric Storm and Edric Dayne. Both represent something that he might get envious over. He is jealous of Edric Dayne getting Arya's attention, after Gendry got himself knighted, and Edric Storm is set up to be the Lord of SE, which is something that Gendry might believe he needs to be Arya's equal. But ultimately there is no reason to be jealous at either two, because within a day Arya's more mad with Edric Dayne than she's with Gendry and as Tom Seven pointed out, Arya's a forest lass. And it's funny that George gave them both the name Edric, which is actually Ned's birthname, and it are mostly Ned Stark's actions that set Gendry on Arya's paths to coincide. It's as if all these Neds make sure that Gendry remains in Arya's arc.

That said, they might end up having separate fates, but I do not believe it is because Gendry gets Storm's End whatsoever.

Edited by sweetsunray

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