Guest Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, ants said: By the way, can we now agree with the way that the right has branded antifa during the protests, that punching a nazi was fucking stupid? As many of us predicted, it allowed antifa to be branded as the violent ones, which has led to them being labelled as the face of violence in the riots, despite that being obvious BS. Which has justified a helluva lotta whataboutism. Protesters always got labeled as rioters, long before antifa came around. If it wasn't antifa, it would be someone else who'd be the Republican boogeyman. Besides, protesters are getting run over with cars, shot with rubber bullets, tear gassed, and beaten. I'm not going to shed any tears about a fascist getting their just desserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, ants said: By the way, can we now agree with the way that the right has branded antifa during the protests, that punching a nazi was fucking stupid? As many of us predicted, it allowed antifa to be branded as the violent ones, which has led to them being labelled as the face of violence in the riots, despite that being obvious BS. Which has justified a helluva lotta whataboutism. No *"Justified a helluva lotta whataboutism" This is essentially honoring an admittedly fallacious argument and then picking a scapegoat you don't like . The punch a Nazi stuff wasn't strictly antifa anyway. "And when they finally came for the tone police there was no one left to..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, ants said: By the way, can we now agree with the way that the right has branded antifa during the protests, that punching a nazi was fucking stupid? As many of us predicted, it allowed antifa to be branded as the violent ones, which has led to them being labelled as the face of violence in the riots, despite that being obvious BS. Which has justified a helluva lotta whataboutism. Nah man, punching Nazis is your patriotic duty no matter what country you live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, ants said: By the way, can we now agree with the way that the right has branded antifa during the protests, that punching a nazi was fucking stupid? As many of us predicted, it allowed antifa to be branded as the violent ones, which has led to them being labelled as the face of violence in the riots, despite that being obvious BS. Which has justified a helluva lotta whataboutism. No, because BLM wasnt violent in the least and was also branded the same way. Meanwhile, anyone heard from Richard Spencer recently? No? Huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Meanwhile, anyone heard from Richard Spencer recently? No? Huh. I suspect he's hiding out somewhere in Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, DMC said: I suspect he's hiding out somewhere in Argentina. Nah, he is hiding in New York City waiting for two Broadway producers to buy his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: Nah, he is hiding in New York City waiting for two Broadway producers to buy his play. Or trying to sell shitty paintings in Vienna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, ants said: can we now agree with the way that the right has branded antifa during the protests, that punching a nazi was fucking stupid? 100% irrelevant to anything. Stupid also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, ants said: By the way, can we now agree with the way that the right has branded antifa during the protests, that punching a nazi was fucking stupid? As many of us predicted, it allowed antifa to be branded as the violent ones, which has led to them being labelled as the face of violence in the riots, despite that being obvious BS. Which has justified a helluva lotta whataboutism. No, we can't. I presume this is the same school of thought that suggested Democrats should try to work with Fat Donnie, and try to sway him. 15 minutes ago, DMC said: Or trying to sell shitty paintings in Vienna. I suppose of the landscapes of his cotton plantations in Louisiana (no, I didn't make that up). Otherwise, I suspect, he might be busy abusing his wife during their divorce proceedings. You know, the small pleasures of life. I know, shocking revelation, that a leading Neo-Nazi is also a wife beater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I mean, this is the same bullshit narrative that said deplatforming Milo would lead to him being more popular and a bigger deal? Violence against innocents often turns bad, but violence against assholes usually ends up being pretty neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ants Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Replying to a sample of the multiple posts I got in response. 4 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said: Protesters always got labeled as rioters, long before antifa came around. If it wasn't antifa, it would be someone else who'd be the Republican boogeyman. It has given them an incredibly easy out. Trump and the ilk have been trying to run a fine line between sympathising (less so Trump) while still attacking the protests as "riots". If they had to argue that its only blacks rioting, it becomes much harder without appearing blatantly racist (and they do try and avoid the blatant bit, well, albeit Trump less so). Similarly saying "the left" is doing this is a little harder to sell as a message. However, saying it is all "antifa", who the right wing have been portraying as violent thugs for several years now, nicely wraps it all up with a bow and tie. They've even talked about making antifa a terrorist organisation. Imagine them trying to say something similar about African Americans? The whole violence by antifa made the right's 4 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said: Besides, protesters are getting run over with cars, shot with rubber bullets, tear gassed, and beaten. I'm not going to shed any tears about a fascist getting their just desserts. I'm pretty much against violence unless in self defence, or strategic. For example, I think the bombings by the Irish went a long way to getting themselves independence, but they also understood why they had to switch to a regular army battles (that they knew they'd lose). I've not seen any smart strategic element of punching a nazi, or much use of violence for self defence, in the protests in the last few years. I would also argue the images and footage of the continued violence against protesters has done more to sway public opinion than punching a nazi ever did. 4 hours ago, Kalbear said: No, because BLM wasn't violent in the least and was also branded the same way. Meanwhile, anyone heard from Richard Spencer recently? No? Huh. Most of the right wing talk I've been monitoring have been trying to avoid accusing BLM as much as possible. As in "professional" talkers and writers. More extreme on-line right wingers certainly do lump BLM in. And to be clear, I wasn't saying not to protest, but protesting violently. 3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: No, we can't. I presume this is the same school of thought that suggested Democrats should try to work with Fat Donnie, and try to sway him. Not at all. This was the school of thought that using violence in anti-protests protests detracted from the message, surrendered the moral high ground, gave the right an easy out of whataboutism, and created a narrative that the left is violent. Oh, and was possibly, probably, morally wrong as well (but that's really besides the point, I'm discussing the pragmatic elements here, and that got bogged down into some serious philosophical discussions). It's allowed the right wing again and again to focus on left-wing violence at protests (rather than their own violence or what was actually happening), claim whataboutism, and give a constant multi-year level of background 'noise' that the left is violent. Similar to how they used multiple prong attacks to hit Hilary with over the years, to the extent that in the end the middle and a lot of the left thought she was untrustworthy and that "but her emails" was a significant issue. Similarly the constant claims over the years have prepped the people who only half listen to be more accepting of lies told about left wing violence. It means they can pull shit like busing people into neighbourhoods, getting out wearing antifa "uniforms", speaking on bull-horns about anti-semitic "plans", and then moving on. Unless anyone here thinks that was actually antifa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 How about we agree to ignore anything deluded Republicans say on the subject? Nazi terrorism killed 50 people in the US over the last decade (according to Wikipedia), and that's without taking into account attacks in other countries (Breivik in Norway, Tarrant in New Zealand). And we're supposed to seriously discuss the idea that punching Spencer is equally bad? Fuck that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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