US Politics: Choking our Democracy

[Ran]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I've met an army mans before, and while the thought that more than a paltry few even know how to read is alluring I simply will not believe that an appreciable number read the articles listed above. That ain't what they're there for.

What exactly do you think Stars and Stripes publishes? Here's the post-RNC issue for you to peruse. Other than the Hugh Hewitt op ed  [published by WaPo!] (and balanced by the David von Drehle op ed directly beneath it), there's nothing that fits what your caricature of a service member or their family is supposed to want. Unless what you're objecting to are the Beetle Bailey comics?

[HoodedCrow]

Jace, I know some very reasonable and literate military people. One much older one says things like, “ war is hell”, soldiers on the other side were “honorable”, pistols should be banned because they are only good for killing people( same with automatic weapons), and also thinks Trump is like Mussolini.

One older one had to stop his wife from raising heck because she was upset about a certain military back in the bad old days of segregation, that made a black engineer sleep in the equipment room because of his color. He said that anything she did would make it worse for him, and he did not have authority to change it.

There is a lot of diversity in the military. Trump probably doesn’t like that they aren’t robotically obeying him and that the brass don’t like him, for loads of reasons. He also doesn’t understand saluting, which is odd from someone who went to a military styled disciplinary school. 

 

[Jace, Extat]

26 minutes ago, Ran said:

What exactly do you think Stars and Stripes publishes? Here's the post-RNC issue for you to peruse. Other than the Hugh Hewitt op ed  [published by WaPo!] (and balanced by the David von Drehle op ed directly beneath it), there's nothing that fits what your caricature of a service member or their family is supposed to want. Unless what you're objecting to are the Beetle Bailey comics?

They print an article accusing the FBI of fucking conspiracies against the state. The state, of course being Trump. That's what their readers are there for, not the dissent piece.

[Jace, Extat]

5 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

Jace, I know some very reasonable and literate military people. One much older one says things like, “ war is hell”, soldiers on the other side were “honorable”, pistols should be banned because they are only good for killing people( same with automatic weapons), and also thinks Trump is like Mussolini.

One older one had to stop his wife from raising heck because she was upset about a certain military back in the bad old days of segregation, that made a black engineer sleep in the equipment room because of his color. He said that anything she did would make it worse for him, and he did not have authority to change it.

There is a lot of diversity in the military. Trump probably doesn’t like that they aren’t robotically obeying him and that the brass don’t like him, for loads of reasons. He also doesn’t understand saluting, which is odd from someone who went to a military styled disciplinary school. 

 

I think you're right. There are good people on both sides.

I don't give a fuck what approval polls say, when the voting starts they want the jackboots by pretty hefty margins. Napoleon was correct.

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I don't give a fuck what approval polls say, when the voting starts they want the jackboots by pretty hefty margins. Napoleon was correct.

It's not just approval, The military times has Biden up 41-37.  They had Trump up on Clinton 40-20 in the same poll.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's not just approval, The military times has Biden up 41-37.  They had Trump up on Clinton 40-20 in the same poll.

I forgot to say it the last time you posted this, but damn does that speak to some serious sexism.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

I forgot to say it the last time you posted this, but damn does that speak to some serious sexism.

Surely that's part of it, but I also think it's due to Trump's actions intensifying disapproval.  When his administration started he quickly had generals as secdef, nsa, and homeland.  Now all three have either explicitly or tacitly denounced him.

[HoodedCrow]

The top military people do not seem to want troops mixed up in the unaccountable goon squad stuff. Some people still care that it’s unconstitutional for them to be set against fellow citizens.Actually one of the offenses for them was likely Trump honoring a guy who had been courtmashalled for his slaughter of a captured and injured enemy soldier and his enthusiasm for shooting foreign civilians. He was courtmarshalled for great reasons by his own brothers in arms. Compare the current military with ICE or the other unaccountable guys in camo. Also, there is some level of egalitarianism in the military, within their own structure. We may be talking of apples and oranges. I don’t personally read that paper, and I’m placing no bets:)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, DMC said:

Surely that's part of it, but I also think it's due to Trump's actions intensifying disapproval.  When his administration started he quickly had generals as secdef, nsa, and homeland.  Now all three have either explicitly or tacitly denounced him.

But I thought the narrative was that Trump was popular with the troops, but not so much with the officers and higher ups. Would them leaving and rebuking Trump move the needle that much? I could be mistaken, but I thought Biden and Clinton had pretty similar records on foreign policy, which while you do have a point, makes me believe that sexism was the bigger driver, especially when you hear about all the awful stuff that's taken place in the military over the recent years.

[Guest]

Are y'all seeing Trump's press conference? He thinks he's burying John Kelly, but he's actually burying his Presidency.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

But I thought the narrative was that Trump was popular with the troops, but not so much with the officers and higher ups.

Nah, at least not based on the MT poll.  The sample there is 1,018 active duty troops, I doubt more than a few dozen max would be described as "higher ups."  But that doesn't mean the brass' rebuking of Trump does not have an affect on the opinions of those they command.  My point isn't about comparing Biden and Clinton's records, it's about how opinions among the military hardened against Trump during his tenure in office, which considering his actions makes sense to me at least.

[Zorral]

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-09-04-20-intl/h_e2022a616e9936fccf97e4edc28e4de3

Quote

 

Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of the medical journal The Lancet, told CNN’s Becky Anderson on Friday that President Trump’s statement that a Covid-19 vaccine could be delivered by the end of October is “simply wrong.” 

“If we make a mistake and license a vaccine too early – just think – we have already got a growing anti-vaccine movement, which is extremely disturbing. We can't cut corners. There will not be a vaccine available for public use by the end of October. President Trump is simply wrong about that,” Horton said, adding: “I have no understanding why he is saying it. Because his advisers will surely be telling him that that's just impossible.”
Horton said the results of a Russian-developed vaccine are “encouraging” but that it would be “highly premature to think that this is the basis for a successful vaccine for public use,” in part since its study involved a very small number of volunteers.

Horton also lamented what he described as the “unfortunate” tone Moscow used when it presented its vaccine results on Friday, saying: “I think if we start setting nation against nation, vaccine against vaccine, company against company, this is completely going to undermine any kind of rationale response. This is a global crisis, Becky. A global crisis needs a global response and a global solution,” he said. “We do want lots of vaccines that are coming through into phase three trials because some are going to succeed and some are going to fail. But this isn't a war between countries. This should be about cooperation.”

 

~~~~~~~~~

He's also destroyed Voice of America -- which dayem, in ye days of living out of the country I was sure glad to have available, along with the BBC.  We all still had radios then.  How quaint! just like reading a venerable publication like the Stars and Stripes.

I knew a lot of people  (they're all dead now) who got their start in their succcessful broadcasting professional life working at VOM while in the military, just as others went from working on S&S into their publishing careers -- some even writing careers.  Like a lot of military jobs these were good training and background for the civilian world of professional work. It was on the job training and, while they didn't get paid specially for it, they didn't pay a cent either, or go into debt. Now anyone wanting to break into media of any kind is expected to go into debt, for enormous sums and enroll in programs at NYU . . . .

[DMC]

BTW, Trump's already backed off and now says funding for Stars and Stripes won't be cut.

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

It's not just approval, The military times has Biden up 41-37.  They had Trump up on Clinton 40-20 in the same poll.

It's a moot point now but when your best case is that 59% of a body condones a fascist strongman heading their organization, I think I win. 

That same article says 16% -Six Teen Measly Percent- of army mens are Democrats. Hamilton was right, that institution is no friend to decent ideologies. 

 

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

It's a moot point now but when your best case is that 59% of a body condones a fascist strongman heading their organization, I think I win. 

As opposed to the 47-48 percent of the country that "condones" the same guy (based off 52/53% aggregate disapproval)?  Doesn't seem like too much of a difference.

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, DMC said:

As opposed to the 47-48 percent of the country that "condones" the same guy (based off 52/53% aggregate disapproval)?  Doesn't seem like too much of a difference.

You are defending an organization so regressive in its views that the crime of being black or a woman inherently makes you less appetizing than a man who insults their supposed honor with his every breath. He's everything those harder-than-hard plastic soldiers claim to revile. Weak, entitled, corrupt, and a fucking draft dodger. He's a draft dodger and they prefer him over Obama? C'mon. They're no better than the police.

[DMC]

32 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

They're no better than the police.

I disagree, but obviously your commitment to very limited anecdotal evidence means I'm not gonna change your mind.

[Jace, Extat]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

I disagree, but obviously your commitment to very limited anecdotal evidence means I'm not gonna change your mind.

I was just going to keep getting more belligerent. I had at least 5 escalations in me.

This was merely an outlet for my venoms.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I was just going to keep getting more belligerent. I had at least 5 escalations in me.

By all means.  If you want I can keep on saying "No!" like Ted Stevens. 

[Fury Resurrected]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

It's not just approval, The military times has Biden up 41-37.  They had Trump up on Clinton 40-20 in the same poll.

I tattooed a Marine and his son (also a Marine)- apparently among many military types the exit of Mattis was a big pivot point.