U.S. Politics: Leaving On A Jet Plane

[TrackerNeil]

3 hours ago, Week said:

Another good example -- someone consistently crushed and dunked on for his stupid, arrogant, and often hateful rhetoric. 

Consistently in the top 10 trending articles on Facebook, top 10 listened to podcast, and a complete and utter fool. Same with his five-headed fraternal twin Charlie Kirk. "Disinfecting their ideas by challenging and exposing them" has done absolutely nothing to prevent their reach and influence. Hell, he just did a guest host on Politico -- he's been legitimized and normalized.

Heh...this is good. Reminds me of a Rush Limbaugh book I read (yes, I read one), in which he opined that melting ice wouldn't raise the sea level because, hey, when an ice cub melts in a glass of water, the overall level of the water does not rise. I was maybe 21 when I read this, but I thought, "But what about the melting ice that is on the land?" Surprisingly, Limbaugh never addressed. that.

[Morpheus]

Maher was even widely criticized at the time for soft balling the interview. Definitely did nothing to contribute to the fall of Milo.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Yeah, that's really incorrect. He booked more including his tour around the US after that. Maher had nothing to do with him doing badly and in fact contributed to his popularity. 

IIRC he got cancelled shortly after his appearance on the show, with Real Time being credited for his exposure which led to people investigating him. 

[Kalbear]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

IIRC he got cancelled shortly after his appearance on the show, with Real Time being credited for his exposure which led to people investigating him. 

Again, this is wishful thinking. As it turns out it was wishful thinking by Maher, but it doesn't line up. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/24/bill-maher-who-took-credit-for-the-downfall-of-milo-yiannopoulos-has-also-defended-adult-sex-with-children/

[OldGimletEye]

On 1/16/2021 at 3:26 PM, Centrist Simon Steele said:

On Twitter, I've been seeing right wingers attacking 15 dollar minimum wage. The arguments I've see are that this would bring minimum wage workers to about 29,000 earned a year, and in Texas, starting teachers make 31,000 a year. How is this fair, they ask, that people with "no skills" make almost as much as college educated people? Thus, the 15 dollar minimum wage is bad. I don't know how to even respond to this "line of thought." I mean, that's the thing that might make sense in your head, but the moment you start writing it out for others, you realize, "Oh shit, right, teachers should probably make more than 30,000 a year when they start..."

And they should. And when I started teaching back when the Great Recession hit, I started at about 30,000 and it was not enough to live on 13 years ago. 15 dollar minimum wage is a good start (and I agree with Biden's sentiment--no one working full time should live in poverty--I would expand that to no one should live in poverty, but when we talk about incrementalism--this is actually incrementalism away from the right). In fact, Biden's statement is pretty close to something Bernie said back in 2015(?) in his first debate with Hillary and those other two people who were running. He said no matter what, a single mother of 5 who can't work full time should still make enough to not only survive, but to have some discretionary income left over each month. I know a lot of crazy "Dore" followers are feeling betrayed by AOC and Bernie, but Bernie's work behind the scenes has certainly paid off in Biden's proposed policies. I'm curious to see how it will play out.

Whether a 15 dollar minimum wage is "fair" or not is not a good way to frame the question. With regard to the minimum wage the issues are 1) will it increase unemployment, 2) even if it increases unemployment, will it help those at the bottom, all things considered. And of course I would, minimum wage is not the only thing we have as a matter of policy.

I'll start with Alan Manning's (see Monopsony in Motion) observation, that if your employer cut your salary by 1 dollar per week, chances are you wouldn't quit your job. You might be pissed off about it, but you likely wouldn't  go and find a new job, being that job search requires (for most people) significant cost. Most employers don't face a flat labor supply curve (ie a purely competitive labor market), it would appear. They have some monopsony power. The labor supply curve they face slopes up. Some employers might face a steep labor supply curve, while others face a flatter curve. The point being that minimum wage won't necessarily cause increased unemployment or a loss in production. How high minimum wage can be set becomes an empirical question. I don't think a 15 min wage would cause that much trouble, except maybe in places where the cost of living is low.

Another argument, made, which I think is a flawed one  "well if you raise minimum wage my profits will fall!'. But, that is like saying, if I regulate prices for monopolies, it will be bad. But, that isn't true. Monopoly profits might fall, but output and production can increase. That's what basic theory suggest.

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

IIRC he got cancelled shortly after his appearance on the show, with Real Time being credited for his exposure which led to people investigating him. 

Wait if Milo wasn’t a pedo, presumably he would experience a downfall?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

46 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

IIRC he got cancelled shortly after his appearance on the show, with Real Time being credited for his exposure which led to people investigating him. 

This is a pretty good synopsis.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/22/14690718/milo-yiannopoulos-pedophilia-cpac-book-deal-resignation-timeline

The Rogan interview is what sunk him. For all the hateful shit Milo spewed over the years, advocating behavior NAMBLA would approve of was a bridge too far for many of his fans.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

42 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Whether a 15 dollar minimum wage is "fair" or not is not a good way to frame the question. With regard to the minimum wage the issues are 1) will it increase unemployment, 2) even if it increases unemployment, will it help those at the bottom, all things considered. And of course I would, minimum wage is not the only thing we have as a matter of policy.

I'll start with Alan Manning's (see Monopsony in Motion) observation, that if your employer cut your salary by 1 dollar per week, chances are you wouldn't quit your job. You might be pissed off about it, but you likely wouldn't  go and find a new job, being that job search requires (for most people) significant cost. Most employers don't face a flat labor supply curve (ie a purely competitive labor market), it would appear. They have some monopsony power. The labor supply curve they face slopes up. Some employers might face a steep labor supply curve, while others face a flatter curve. The point being that minimum wage won't necessarily cause increased unemployment or a loss in production. How high minimum wage can be set becomes an empirical question. I don't think a 15 min wage would cause that much trouble, except maybe in places where the cost of living is low.

Another argument, made, which I think is a flawed one  "well if you raise minimum wage my profits will fall!'. But, that is like saying, if I regulate prices for monopolies, it will be bad. But, that isn't true. Monopoly profits might fall, but output and production can increase. That's what basic theory suggest.

I generally agree with this, but I think there is a second question here:  will a higher minimum wage inhibit marginal employment increases.  I also suspect $15 will cause THAT much trouble, but I suspect that number (whatever it is) is lower than the number at which you start to see job loss.  But I think the inquiry is an important one given current unemployment numbers.

[OldGimletEye]

2 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I generally agree with this, but I think there is a second question here:  will a higher minimum wage inhibit marginal employment increases.  I also suspect $15 will cause THAT much trouble, but I suspect that number (whatever it is) is lower than the number at which you start to see job loss.  But I think the inquiry is an important one given current unemployment numbers.

Well I think its potential negative effects, will depend on location. It likely would  cause no trouble in New York. But, might be an issue in Kentucky.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

This is a pretty good synopsis.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/22/14690718/milo-yiannopoulos-pedophilia-cpac-book-deal-resignation-timeline

The Rogan interview is what sunk him. For all the hateful shit Milo spewed over the years, advocating behavior NAMBLA would approve of was a bridge too far for many of his fans.

But that's the point I've been arguing. You get a reprehensible figure like him on a mainstream platform and then people can quickly dig out why he's a piece of shit. Don't let these types traffic in the shadows. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well I think its potential negative effects, will depend on location. It likely would  cause no trouble in New York. But, might be an issue in Kentucky.

Fair point.  Which, of course, begs the question of how best to calibrate a national minimum wage (or, if there should be one....)

[Varysblackfyre321]

31 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

But that's the point I've been arguing. You get a reprehensible figure like him on a mainstream platform and then people can quickly dig out why he's a piece of shit. Don't let these types traffic in the shadows. 

If he wasn’t a pedo, he’d still be misogynistic, racist, asshole which apparently would not be enough to ruin him.

If my sole reference to who Milo was was Maher’s interview I would think he was far more moderate and reasonable than what he actually is.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

26 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Fair point.  Which, of course, begs the question of how best to calibrate a national minimum wage (or, if there should be one....)

Oregon went through a few rounds of trying to work this out, over the years, and this is where we arrived - the major metro area has a higher wage (higher cost of living and local taxes), the smaller metro areas (5-10, I can’t remember where they made the cutoff in demographics) have to use the standard, and “non-urban” areas have a lower rate.   I thought it made sense, and seemed like something that could scale and evolve over time, maybe based on something like census tract.

Minimum wage schedule

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

36 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

But that's the point I've been arguing. You get a reprehensible figure like him on a mainstream platform and then people can quickly dig out why he's a piece of shit. Don't let these types traffic in the shadows. 

Had to go up-thread to see the discussion. Yes, I agree with your "sunlight is the best disinfectant" comment; but only if those people are facing a well prepared critic. Maher, clever as he is, often isn't that. He has also promoted some idiotic views of his own from time to time, which is why I stopped watching him.

I remember a show from years ago where he had John Bolton on the panel. Bolton made some insane comment that went completely unchallenged because I don't know why. My television never recovered from the verbal abuse I laid on it. Pretty sure I traumatized some of my neighbors as well.

[Mindwalker]

 

[ThinkerX]

denial of reality about the Capital Riot  continues.  The disturbing thing is it's not just a few people, its a significant percentage of the population.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-republicans-are-warping-reality-around-the-capitol-attack/ar-BB1cPnqP?ocid=ob-fb-enus-580&fbclid=IwAR2LkEF9UoaKaveiNFvs056OrFsXKiKUyDmZpfrlb69Y2G4iR_5EqbivoWA

In one of the ultimate don’t-believe-your-eyes moments of the Trump era, these Republicans have retreated to the ranks of misinformation, claiming it was Black Lives Matter protesters and far-left groups like Antifa who stormed the Capitol — in spite of the pro-Trump flags and QAnon symbology in the crowd. Others have argued that the attack was no worse than the rioting and looting in cities during the Black Lives Matter movement, often exaggerating the unrest last summer while minimizing a mob’s attempt to overturn an election.

[Mindwalker]

LOL, I think we aLL calleD that one.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

41 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

This is what a modern day cult member looks like. No ranting or screaming; just smiles, positivity, and nonsense. Dial the clock back a few decades and this guy could have been the dictionary definition of a Peoples Temple member or a Moonie. 

[Mindwalker]

According to the twittersphere, Lindsey went on Fox and stated the riots were Nancy Pelosi's fault, because she was responsible for security. I didn't check because I can't stand wtching this guy (or Fox, for that matter.)

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

7 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

According to the twittersphere, Lindsey went on Fox and stated the riots were Nancy Pelosi's fault, because she was responsible for security. I didn't check because I can't stand wtching this guy (or Fox, for that matter.)

which "Lindsey"? Graham?