zoenerys Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 *I truly think Harry is going to die in Sanaa’s next chapter in winds during the tourney. Mirroring ser hughs death. It is truly fishy how easily Sansa accomplished little finger’s plan for Harry in one chapter. This is not grrms style. If this was Sanaa’s true endgame relationship, he would’ve developed it WAY more. I believe little finger is trying to recreate his past ala jay gatsby, with Harry as Brandon stark and himself as the underdog. I think Harry dying will completely ruin littlefingers plan, and make an opening for his true rival for Sanaa’s fate since the beginning to come in (Sandor). I think littlefinger has always been two steps ahead of everything, he will truly be thrown for a loop in this imo. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I think Harry's going to die too, but I'm thinking Ser Hugh of the Vale is more a parallel for LF from this quote (it's Varys): "There was one boy. All he was, he owed Jon Arryn, but when the widow fled to the Eyrie with her household, he stayed in King's Landing and prospered...." I don't think there are any fully 3-dimensional characters left for Sansa - Sandor is great but unacceptable to a lot of fans, and besides, he might have a vocation by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 22 hours ago, zoenerys said: I think Harry dying will completely ruin littlefingers plan, and make an opening for his true rival for Sanaa’s fate since the beginning to come in (Sandor). You lost me here. Sandor goes in the bin with Littlefinger and all the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Yes Harry is dead, and his death is the spark that ignites the Vale civil war. Harry dies at the tourney, probably Lynn kills him 'accidentally', his motive is to fuck LF's plans and we have the foreboding mention of how deadly Lynn is. If Harry is to die at the tourney I suggest the following is absolutely inevitable. Yohn blames LF, he will say and probably believe LF brought Harry to the tourney with the intent of bringing him to his side, most likely through an Alayne match. Yohn will say when Harry refused to have her (untrue but the world won't any different, they had a strained meeting at the gates and Alayne refused his favour so the world won't know he offered) LF had him killed so as to not lose control of the Vale should (when) Robert die. Yohn will demand LF yield custody of Robert, LF will refuse, Yohn will come to take him by force and the Vale will split behind either Yohn or LF. Yohn wants only a half decent reason to come for LF, Harry's death at LF's tourney will be more than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 19 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: You lost me here. Sandor goes in the bin with Littlefinger and all the rest. I just can't really get behind Sansa's attraction to Sandor, unless it's Stockholm Syndrome. Realistic but personally cringeworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 I think it was actually Sandor that was attracted to Sansa, not the other way around. For all his meanness, he was oddly gentle with her on several occasions that we read about. He seems to be a guy in love, who has no idea how to handle those feelings. I do sometimes wonder who Sansa will end up married to. She started out as a girl with a head full of stories about maidens who marry a handsome prince or a valiant knight. I have a hunch she'll end up with someone very different, and Sandor is one candidate. Tyrion is another; he was nicer to her than anyone else in King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 59 minutes ago, Aebram said: He seems to be a guy in love, who has no idea how to handle those feelings. "You look almost a woman . . . face, teats, and you're taller too, almost . . . ah, you're still a stupid little bird, aren't you? TRUE WUV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: I just can't really get behind Sansa's attraction to Sandor, unless it's Stockholm Syndrome. Realistic but personally cringeworthy. What attraction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 40 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: What attraction? UnKiss, stuff like that where she’s trying to romanticize the night he forced himself on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: UnKiss, stuff like that where she’s trying to romanticize the night he forced himself on her. Just like she called an old drunk "her Florian" and calls Littlefinger "father" - this isn't attraction, its her trying to change the situation to make it happier rather than sad, scary, or creepy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: "You look almost a woman . . . face, teats, and you're taller too, almost . . . ah, you're still a stupid little bird, aren't you? TRUE WUV Yes, but consider this from ACOK 18 (Sansa II): Quote "... Back to your cage, little bird. I’ll take you there. Keep you safe for the king.” The Hound gave her a push, oddly gentle, and followed her down the steps. By the time they reached the bottom, he had lapsed back into a brooding silence, as if he had forgotten she was there. I'm pretty sure there are a few other moments like this, where he shows an uncharacteristic bit of kindness towards her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 14 hours ago, Aebram said: Yes, but consider this from ACOK 18 (Sansa II): I'm pretty sure there are a few other moments like this, where he shows an uncharacteristic bit of kindness towards her. He's keeping Joffrey's hostage "safe." You really see romantic love from this creep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoodedCrow Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 The Hound is a foul mouthed person, but his actions are more knightly than the knights. He saves Sansa from gang rape and worse. He endangers his life. Sansa believes that he won’t hurt her. She is attracted to him. It’s not cute, but the Hound is a better man than Joffrey. It’s a low bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 On 2/14/2021 at 1:16 AM, Rose of Red Lake said: You lost me here. Sandor goes in the bin with Littlefinger and all the rest. What about arcs? If Sansa allows LF to mould her character, and Sandor the same with Elder Brother - it could end up with him being too good for her. On 2/15/2021 at 2:04 AM, Rose of Red Lake said: What attraction? I don't see attraction on either side, not while they're together. Connection, yes, desire, no, for all the obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 17 hours ago, HoodedCrow said: The Hound is a foul mouthed person, but his actions are more knightly than the knights. He saves Sansa from gang rape and worse. He endangers his life. Sansa believes that he won’t hurt her. She is attracted to him. It’s not cute, but the Hound is a better man than Joffrey. It’s a low bar. And yet The Hound tried to rape her the night of the Battle of the Blackwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: And yet The Hound tried to rape her the night of the Battle of the Blackwater. If he wanted to rape her, he would have raped her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Springwatch said: If he wanted to rape her, he would have raped her. If he tells Arya he should have "fucked her bloody" I bet the thought crossed his mind. I seriously don't get why people defend this douchebag. 2 hours ago, Springwatch said: What about arcs? If Sansa allows LF to mould her character, and Sandor the same with Elder Brother - it could end up with him being too good for her. The absurdity of this is what makes it funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walda Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Quote I took the bloody song, she never gave it. I meant to take her too. I should have. (ASoS Ch 74 Arya XIII) Yup, he came to rape her, but thought better of it, and maybe has regrets (or maybe is just trying to make Arya kill him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Walda said: (ASoS Ch 74 Arya XIII) Yup, he came to rape her, but thought better of it, and maybe has regrets (or maybe is just trying to make Arya kill him) Yes, this is why GRRM said Sandor is "more dangerous than romantic." "he didn't rape her" or "he saved her from the mob" "he's more knightly" - all of these takes are naive. It's like you're trying to change the situation into something nicer even as it's not - which is what Sansa is on track to unlearn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said: If he tells Arya he should have "fucked her bloody" I bet the thought crossed his mind. I seriously don't get why people defend this douchebag. It crossed his mind at some point afterwards for a certainty - it's a commonplace that soldiers rape girls when their blood is up after a battle (book lore). BUT - his blood wasn't up, it was very, very down. He was shell-shocked, drunk, vomiting, exhausted and having an identity crisis - I doubt very much he was capable of rape, even if he was interested. And he's not interested in Sansa that way. Even when he finally notices she's got breasts (and points it out like an idiot older brother) - he concludes she's not a woman, just a little bird. Quote The absurdity of this is what makes it funny. I've got to admit, I find the Sansa/Sandor interaction comic. Well, they're fictional, that's ok. But anyway, many think Sansa is poisoning SR for power politics reasons. On the other hand, Elder Brother is almost too boringly virtuous, and this good man has apparently heard Sandor's story and accepted him as a novice. So he heard a convincing repentence then. Meribald supports this view by saying Sandor was a man in torment. (Or was that Thoros? Someone.) 1 hour ago, Walda said: (ASoS Ch 74 Arya XIII) Yup, he came to rape her, but thought better of it, and maybe has regrets (or maybe is just trying to make Arya kill him) Well he definitely is trying to get Arya to kill him. One thing we know for certain is that he went to Sansa's room to sleep. Because that's what he did. He hid in her room, and got drunk and slept, because that's what he really, really needed to do. Doesn't seem likely he felt he needed to rape (if so, he could have raped someone else without having to wait for Sansa). 1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Yes, this is why GRRM said Sandor is "more dangerous than romantic." Yes he's a dangerous brute. He does on the night of the battle what he has done before - hold a blade to her throat and try to terrorise her. It's consistent with his character building so far. Rape/paedophilia just does not appear. Quote "he didn't rape her" or "he saved her from the mob" "he's more knightly" - all of these takes are naive. It's like you're trying to change the situation into something nicer even as it's not - which is what Sansa is on track to unlearn. "he didn't rape her" or "he saved her from the mob" are, you know, facts. Not something I changed. The concept of 'knightliness' is up for debate if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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