NBA 2021 - Randle Hearts

[Rhom]

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Vince Carter could average 100 points a game on the Dreamcast. Just dunk the ball a few times with him then hit a few open threes and he couldn't miss. Ah, the good old days when I was a kid.

DreamCast was an underrated machine.  Really just ahead of it’s times.

(Still don’t understand why to controller cord came out of the bottom instead of the top though.)

[Relic]

37 minutes ago, Rhom said:

DreamCast was an underrated machine.  Really just ahead of it’s times.

(Still don’t understand why to controller cord came out of the bottom instead of the top though.)

Lack of titles but i loved my dreamcast. Def played the crap out of NBA 2k and Marvel vs Capcom on that thing

[Rhom]

16 minutes ago, Relic said:

Lack of titles but i loved my dreamcast. Def played the crap out of NBA 2k and Marvel vs Capcom on that thing

I played a lot of Phantasy Star Online... its the reason I kept Dial Up internet even after getting cable internet at my apartment. 

I bought it used off eBay and it came with several games I never would have otherwise bought for myself.  So I played a lot of Worms Armageddon and there was a fishing game with its own controller that was unexpectedly fun!   

[Relic]

Man so many injuries lately. Sad to see LaMelo's season end that way. Bummer. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

Lack of titles but i loved my dreamcast. Def played the crap out of NBA 2k and Marvel vs Capcom on that thing

2k was life. There was a fighting game my friends and I always used to play, but I can't remember what it was called. It wasn't one of the major series, and I only saw it on the Dreamcast, but when I just Googled fighting games for the system none of the titles rung a bell. Oh well.

[Relic]

10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

2k was life. There was a fighting game my friends and I always used to play, but I can't remember what it was called. It wasn't one of the major series, and I only saw it on the Dreamcast, but when I just Googled fighting games for the system none of the titles rung a bell. Oh well.

Virtua fighter? wait wait,... Power stone?? 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Relic said:

Virtua fighter? wait wait,... Power stone?? 

I think it may be Power Stone 2. This image is so familiar.

[Relic]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think it may be Power Stone 2. This image is so familiar.

Power stone was great! 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, Relic said:

Power stone was great! 

Yeah I'm pretty sure it was PS2. It was a lot of fun, but I only got to play now and then. The Dreamcast I played on was at a large comic book shop that help big MTG and other card game tournaments. I also played a lot of Warhammer 40k as a kid, and there were several computers and a game cast you could pay a little bit to use during the down times between matches. Now I'm stuck trying to remember the name of this game we played that was GTA3 before GTA3 came out in the sense that you could just drive around and run people the fuck over.

[Maithanet]

For my challenge, I was only considering 1st team all-nba, not all-nba defensive teams.  So Rodman definitely qualifies (although I doubt I'd take him with his abysmal free throw shooting). 

I'll admit I don't really know if the 5 out strategy is still a good one for this format, I might rather go with a traditional center.  But here's my preliminary list, with the caveat that I'm sure I'm missing some great players who've never made an all-NBA first team and so I would happily sub some of these guys out if need be. 

Leader:  Lebron James

Wingmen:  Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, Manu Ginobili, Dikembe Mutumbo.

I will admit that I really am not looking back further than the 90s for my wingmen.  I'm just not familiar with any of the guys from before then if they weren't good enough to be All-NBA type players. 

Also Marc Gasol made an All-NBA first team?  Fucking bullshit, I needed him.  Center/Big man is a hard spot for me to fill, because almost every guy who's legit good as a center has made an All-NBA first team.  Even the good stretch 4s mostly have done so.  Really feel like there's great depth at the wing positions, but not nearly as much at PG and C.  I considered Bill Lambieer at C, since he does have a 3 point shot (career 33%) but I'm really not sure if he would be a good defender in today's NBA.  I decided to go with the more defensive Mutumbo, even though he lacks floor spacing. 

Fun Fact:  Dikembe Mutumbo never once attempted a 3 point shot in his 17 year career. 

[Maithanet]

In actual NBA news, the Lebron injury definitely makes a Lakers repeat a lot more challenging.  They were tied for the 2 seed when the injury happened, but without AD or Lebron, they're going to be dropping like a rock.  At this point they might be lucky to even hold on to a top 5 spot.

That might be the most underrated challenge of Lebron moving out west.  The teams scrapping for those final playoff spots are just a lot better. 

[Wilbur]

16 hours ago, WarGalley said:

A little surprised by Pierce not having 1 all-nba, thought I looked him up. And yeah, I'd probably take most of those now that I look at that list (though I don't know Dantley and English very well).

Unfortunately for Dantley and English, they both spent their glory years in the Midwest Division, serving as cannon fodder for the Lakers' customary cruise through the 1980s' regular season and Western Conference playoffs.

Alex English was never on a team with any interest in playing defense, but his shooting form was so beautiful that angels wept to see him take that jumper.  English is the poster child for the concept of "fewer dribbles result in better shot opportunities" school of thought.  He also had one of the coolest facial hair arrangements in the NBA post-merger.  But in the end, play in Denver and you won't appear on TV often enough to get onto an All-NBA team in 198x.  Nevertheless, it was good to see someone carry on the tradition of beauty in motion from Jerry West.

Adrian Dantley was another efficiency expert, although he went in for more isolation offense, which was less aesthetically pleasing unless you like rhythmic faking and stat-counting.  Utah is also in the Midwest, so see all of the above about defense, the Lakers, All-NBA team selection, etc. etc.  He is the NBA player you would least like to have to play in a 1v1 game and liked to speak the truth about Isiah Thomas, which didn't improve his popularity.  He also has the absolutely coolest post-NBA career.

Neither one of these guys wanted to take a three-point shot, given the coaching environment in their formative years that ridiculed it as a gimmick.

[DMC]

So I did the google thing for all five positions and here are the top names I found that never made first team all-nba:

1 - Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Kyrie Irving

2 - Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Manu Ginobli, Klay Thompson

3 - Paul Pierce, James Worthy, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, Vince Carter, Carmelo Anthony, Peja Stojakovic

4 - Dennis Rodman, Chris Bosh, Paul Gasol, Shawn Kemp, Elton Brand

5 - Robert Parish, Nate Thurmond, Dikembe Mutombo, Yao Ming, Bob Lanier, Bill Laimbeer

Google didn't like Draymond Green but I think he belongs on that list.  Rasheed Wallace would be a really interesting role player too, I think.  Anyway, the wings really dominate, don't they?  Pretty funny that Pierce and Allen may well be the two best players to never make a first team.  

If I had to choose, based on that list, I agree with Maith's strategy of three wings and a big man/rim protector as complements.  He's pretty weak as an all around player, but I'm really tempted to take Reggie.  Imagine Miller in these 3-happy times?!?  So I think I'd go with Pierce, Manu, and Miller.

Rim protector is tough.  Parish is probably the best all-around center there and has tons of experience playing a complementary role on a superteam.  Nate Thurmond might be the best pure defense/rebounding guy there, but man - look at his horrid field goal percentages!  I always loved Mutombo (met him a few times too), but since Maith took him, I guess I'll go with Parish.  Bill Walton once called him "the greatest shooting big man of all time."  So, my team is:

Michael Jordan, Reggie Miller, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobli, Robert Parish.

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

So I did the google thing for all five positions and here are the top names I found that never made first team all-nba:

1 - Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Kyrie Irving

2 - Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Manu Ginobli, Klay Thompson

3 - Paul Pierce, James Worthy, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, Vince Carter, Carmelo Anthony, Peja Stojakovic

4 - Dennis Rodman, Chris Bosh, Paul Gasol, Shawn Kemp, Elton Brand

5 - Robert Parish, Nate Thurmond, Dikembe Mutombo, Yao Ming, Bob Lanier, Bill Laimbeer

Super helpful to have that list, I couldn't find a good resource to check all-nba lists. 

Who you pick as your superstar, IMO really influences who your role players should be as well.  With Lebron, the most important thing is that you have guys who are good at moving without the ball and spacing the floor.  With Jordan I think it's more important to have good passers because Jordan is more dangerous without the ball than Lebron. 

I like Mutombo and he can defend like hell, but his lack of spacing is probably a bad idea with Lebron.  I honestly have no idea how good a shooter Parish would be.  He was an excellent mid-range shooter, but there is no record of him ever taking a 3 pointer in his 21 year career.  It seems likely that with a couple of years he could become a very good 3 point shooter.  But if we only have one offseason to prepare for this game, I somehow doubt that Parish would be ready.

The problem is I really don't know who else to put in there.  I really want a 3 and D big man who could potentially match up with Wilt or Kareem if someone picked them as their leader.  Marc Gasol making that 1 All-NBA spot really screwed this up for me, because even though he'd no doubt get outclassed by Wilt's athleticism, I think he could do enough that it isn't just free points.  And on the other end, he demands being covered and is great in the pick and roll. 

I feel like this is an amusing exercise just because you don't know what style of team the other guy might go with.  Like you could build some preposterous team of rebounders with Rondo, Pierce, Rasheed Wallace, Rodman and Wilt Chamberlain.  That team probably wouldn't get along (and would definitely party too much), but they would also absolutely dominate the boards.  Going up against the team I put together I'm honestly not at all sure how that would go.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I can't remember how good Yao was on defense, but if we're playing by today's game, it's very tempting to take him and Bosh if you thought they could take a step back and hit the three. I feel like Bosh could and his game would have been great today, but I can't say I feel as strongly about Yao.

Based on that list, I'd cheat and put James at the one because you can also use Klay, Vince and Bosh. Maybe you slide Bosh to the center role on this positionless team and put in Peja, summing you get each guy in his prime. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

With Jordan I think it's more important to have good passers because Jordan is more dangerous without the ball than Lebron. 

Was he? 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Who you pick as your superstar, IMO really influences who your role players should be as well.

Yeah, my team was basically a supercharged version of Jordan's Bulls.  Pierce replaces Pippen.  Miller is the ideal version of Armstong/Paxson/Harper/Kerr.  Ginobli is Kukoc with defense.  And Parish was on the Bulls, albeit in his 40s.  Really the only thing you're missing is Rodman or Grant.

As for Parish hitting threes, I don't think it'd take much preparation for him to make open looks at a high percentage.  I'd assume he (and most shooting big man back in the day) practiced shooting threes all the time, just not in game situations.  More importantly, his game already provides the spacing that's paramount as he was always a high-post 5.

[Maithanet]

Bosh took enough 3s for us to get a clear picture of whether he was good at them (he's a career 33% shooter).  Ming attempted very few 3 pointers and was career .200 on them, so I suspect that he was actually pretty bad at them. 

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

So I did the google thing for all five positions and here are the top names I found that never made first team all-nba:

1 - Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Kyrie Irving

2 - Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Manu Ginobli, Klay Thompson

3 - Paul Pierce, James Worthy, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, Vince Carter, Carmelo Anthony, Peja Stojakovic

4 - Dennis Rodman, Chris Bosh, Paul Gasol, Shawn Kemp, Elton Brand

5 - Robert Parish, Nate Thurmond, Dikembe Mutombo, Yao Ming, Bob Lanier, Bill Laimbeer

Google didn't like Draymond Green but I think he belongs on that list.  Rasheed Wallace would be a really interesting role player too, I think.  Anyway, the wings really dominate, don't they?  Pretty funny that Pierce and Allen may well be the two best players to never make a first team.  

If I had to choose, based on that list, I agree with Maith's strategy of three wings and a big man/rim protector as complements.  He's pretty weak as an all around player, but I'm really tempted to take Reggie.  Imagine Miller in these 3-happy times?!?  So I think I'd go with Pierce, Manu, and Miller.

Rim protector is tough.  Parish is probably the best all-around center there and has tons of experience playing a complementary role on a superteam.  Nate Thurmond might be the best pure defense/rebounding guy there, but man - look at his horrid field goal percentages!  I always loved Mutombo (met him a few times too), but since Maith took him, I guess I'll go with Parish.  Bill Walton once called him "the greatest shooting big man of all time."  So, my team is:

Michael Jordan, Reggie Miller, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobli, Robert Parish.

None of these names surprise me, to be honest.

[Relic]

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

 Now I'm stuck trying to remember the name of this game we played that was GTA3 before GTA3 came out in the sense that you could just drive around and run people the fuck over.

Driver.