NBA Playoffs - Play In? PLAY-IN It Cool

[DMC]

It was a flagrant, but clearly not a flagrant 2.  If that's a flagrant 2, there's not much point in having a flagrant 1.

[Maithanet]

I don't see how that could possibly be a flagrant 2.  IMO it's borderline whether it's even a flagrant 1.  Calling it a flagrant 1 is fine, but there are definitely common fouls that are rougher than that every game.  You just cannot be ejecting a team's best player over something like that, it's ridiculous. 

[Slurktan]

11 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Anywho water over the bridge, the Sun's are going to the finals after playing brilliantly all series.

So Jazz-Clippers just doesn't matter huh?

[Tywin et al.]

The final four teams from last season won a total of seven playoff games this year with two teams getting swept. They all had injury problems. It’s hard not to conclude that the short offseason negatively affected them.

[SkynJay]

Still in shock.

Obviously the series was over and most likely so was the game.  The Suns were in complete control.  But to deny us in the arena the chance to cheer off our MVP over that is inexcusable.  

Refs rarely swing games, let alone series.  This series is no exception.  But the NBA has to do something about their refs inserting themselves into the narrative.  For me most the needed changes are obvious.

1.  Reviews should be handles off site, not by the refs on the floor.  And obviously challenges need to be given back if successful.  

2. Offensive players should not get fouls by creating the contact, especially on the perimeter.  They should also treat obvious flopping like delay of game; first a warning then a T.  (Side note, Booker flops almost not at all, props to him.  Crowder on the other hand should be playing soccer in Europe).

3.  This flopping rule should count on charges too.  

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

2 hours ago, Slurktan said:

So Jazz-Clippers just doesn't matter huh?

No I meant Western finals, to play the Jazz/Clips winner lol.

Mea Culpa an what not

[Maithanet]

I like the Suns and they are playing well, but that team is still setting off my alarm bells in terms of "lacks playoff experience."  Historically, that has really mattered in the NBA, and the fact that both Booker and Ayton have never been on a stage like this worries me a great deal.  Thus far they have played two teams both of which were missing their second best player.  It is highly unlikely that the Clippers/Jazz winner will be so hobbled (although they could get injured in the series of course).  The Jazz are not that experienced either, but Gobert/Mitchell at least have qualified for the playoffs together for the past three seasons and been key contributors on every one of those teams.  That's a lot better than the Suns can boast.

That's why I am sticking to my earlier prediction that whoever wins the Clippers/Jazz series will be going to the Finals. 

On the bright side, it's looking more and more likely we'll have two actually old school, organic growth kinda teams in the Finals.  A Finals of Jazz/Suns vs Sixers/Bucks isn't neccesarily the sexiest for NBA execs, but I think it'd be a lot of fun. 

EDIT:  Of course, the Nets aren't finished yet, and the Clippers remain dangerous (although that "superteam" is much less objectionable to me as a fan than Brooklyn).  Honestly I'd be fine with a Clippers-Bucks Final, although it's obviously not my first choice. 

[Tywin et al.]

Heard an interesting stat this morning that should give Brooklyn some hope. When the big three are on the court together the Nets are +13 per 100 possessions. When it's just KD they're also +13. 

[Maithanet]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Heard an interesting stat this morning that should give Brooklyn some hope. When the big three are on the court together the Nets are +13 per 100 possessions. When it's just KD they're also +13. 

I would take no solace whatsoever in that stat.  It is pretty obvious that the Nets talent around KD is not good enough to beat top NBA teams.  They need at least one of Harden/Irving to come back and be at least 90% of himself. 

[Tywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I would take no solace whatsoever in that stat.  It is pretty obvious that the Nets talent around KD is not good enough to beat top NBA teams.  They need at least one of Harden/Irving to come back and be at least 90% of himself. 

I think that's true if we're talking about the playoffs as a whole, but they still have enough talent to win two of the next three games without Kyrie or Harden. The bigger key may actually be how the refs decide to handle Tucker's defense. He's been getting away with a lot these past two games while guarding KD. 

[DMC]

7 hours ago, SkynJay said:

Offensive players should not get fouls by creating the contact, especially on the perimeter.

I dunno, I think generally offensive players benefit from refereeing too much already, and have ever since they put in the hand-check rule a quarter century ago.

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I would take no solace whatsoever in that stat.

That stat almost certainly reflects the fact Durant often plays lesser competition/units when he's the only one of the three on the floor.

[Tywin et al.]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

That stat almost certainly reflects the fact Durant often plays lesser competition/units when he's the only one of the three on the floor.

Idk, it's hard to say because of how much time the three of them missed and the sample size for when all three were playing is pretty small (plus the trade distorts the numbers  a bit given the players they had to give up to get Harden). What I think it says more than anything is that KD is back to looking like his old self pre-2019 injury. 

 

At halftime I was ready to write the Hawks off, but they've shown a lot of fight in the second half. Let's see what they do up one with less than 20 seconds to go (also I have no idea what they did on what looks like their last real offensive possession of the game, that was sloppy as fuck).

ETA: Good for the Hawks. They're a fun, young team, but no player will be hurt more by possible rule changes over the offseason than Trae. 

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

the sample size for when all three were playing is pretty small

Yeah but the sample for when at least one of them was playing with Durant is pretty large.

[Tywin et al.]

19 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah but the sample for when at least one of them was playing with Durant is pretty large.

I'll defer to your statistical analysis, but KD did only play 35 games this year and nine of them were before Harden played his first game for the Nets (They went 3-3 with just KD). What the numbers do say (from a lazy cursory glance) is that the Nets aren't very good when only Kyrie plays. They seem to be just fine when either Harden or Durant plays, but I couldn't find a good breakdown for the whole season isolating when only KD started (which I think would either prove or disprove your point about it being dependent on him playing solo against weaker lineups).

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

What the numbers do say (from a lazy cursory glance) is that the Nets aren't very good when only Kyrie plays.

I'd say that makes sense.  The point is most of the time Durant had at least one of them healthy/available as well, which means the time when he was playing alone was likely against opposing teams' second units (or at least when they were resting some of their top guys).

[Maithanet]

Irving declared out for game 5.  The fact that this isn't even a game time decision isn't a good sign for nets fans.

[Tywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'd say that makes sense.  The point is most of the time Durant had at least one of them healthy/available as well, which means the time when he was playing alone was likely against opposing teams' second units (or at least when they were resting some of their top guys).

I understand the point. I was just hoping to see an article written about the games in which only he started so we could see if that +/- stat held up or if it was inflated by him feasting off teams' second units (and it makes sense to assume it was to some extent because why wouldn't you stagger their play).

7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Irving declared out for game 5.  The fact that this isn't even a game time decision isn't a good sign for nets fans.

I doubt he can play in the next week, tbh. That wasn't a minor ankle roll. 

[DMC]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

I understand the point. I was just hoping to see an article written about the games in which only he started

I don't think it matters much just looking at games when only he started - because there aren't many at all.  Quickly cross-referencing their game logs, there are very few games Durant played that Irving didn't.  There were five between 1/10-1/18 (although Harden played in the last two), and then maybe two or three after that.  And that's it.

[Proudfeet]

Jazz aren't playing well offensively or defensively. They look scared and panicked. The game might be over at half time at this rate.

[Tywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't think it matters much just looking at games when only he started - because there aren't many at all.  Quickly cross-referencing their game logs, there are very few games Durant played that Irving didn't.  There were five between 1/10-1/18 (although Harden played in the last two), and then maybe two or three after that.  And that's it.

Yeah, I just did a second quick glance at the game logs and there isn't enough to go off of to matter much. So it probably just comes down to can the Nets buy enough time for Harden to get back without being rushed. I think KD can get them a win in the next two games because frankly, the Bucks haven't looked very good this series after destroying the Heat.

 

Also, Utah, not looking very good at the moment. If the Clippers win tonight I'd probably favor them in a best of three series.