Craving Peaches Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: I think you are ignorant and you haven't read the book I have read the book. 2 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: your attempts to justify your senseless replies are lunatic and pathetic, I made no attempt to justify anything. Did you even read my post? I think not. I literally said: 16 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Not that that makes the horrible things the Dornish did justified And quoted everything I said about it in the previous post, so it was crystal clear I did not think the Dornish nobles were justified in their atrocities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 31 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: I have read the book. I made no attempt to justify anything. Did you even read my post? I think not. I literally said: And quoted everything I said about it in the previous post, so it was crystal clear I did not think the Dornish nobles were justified in their atrocities. Dornishmen knew how to enter in Aegonfort and how to attack Aegon and his sister after Meraxes death, so it is hinted they tortured Rhaenys to have informations about Aegonfort and his guards. I acknowledged you are Turkish, during one of the Ottoman invasion, Vlad Tepes III tortured and impaled 20000 Turkish soldiers, was he right to do so? They were invaders after all, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: I acknowledged you are Turkish I'm not Turkish. 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: during one of the Ottoman invasion, Vlad Tepes III tortured and impaled 20000 Turkish soldiers, was he right to do so? They were invaders after all, right? No, I consider that cruel, as did people in real life at the time. I don't think what the Dornish did with regards to torturing people was right either, as I have said multiple times to you over and over. But I do think they were justified in killing those who invaded their lands. Not torturing them though, as I will stress to you again, hopefully for the final time. Edited June 27, 2023 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: I'm not Turkish. No, I consider that cruel, as did people in real life at the time. I don't think what the Dornish did with regards to torturing people was right either, as I have said multiple times to you over and over. But I do think they were justified in killing those who invaded their lands. Not torturing them though, as I will stress to you again, hopefully for the final time. During WWII there were bombings on German territory that killed mostly civilians, it is not considered war crime, because the bombing allowed the allies to free the people in concentration camps, it is what Aegon and Visenya did during the war, bombing depravity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: During WWII there were bombings on German territory that killed mostly civilians This is a subject that will detail the thread if we discuss it any further, so I will not give my opinion here. 20 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: it is what Aegon and Visenya did during the war, bombing depravity I don't think it is comparable because there is, to my knowledge, no evidence Aegon burning Dornish villages allowed him to rescue whomever the Dornish had captured, and it seems clear to me from the book that he only did it because he was angry they killed Rhaenys, not to rescue anyone. Edited June 27, 2023 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: This is a subject that will detail the thread if we discuss it any further, so I will not give my opinion here. I don't think it is comparable because there is, to my knowledge, no evidence Aegon burning Dornish villages allowed him to rescue whomever the Dornish had captured, and it seems clear to me from the book that he only did it because he was angry they killed Rhaenys, not to rescue anyone. Were Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombings war crimes even though they put an end to the war? Edited June 27, 2023 by KingAerys_II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Were Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombings war crimes even though they put an end to the war? I think so, but the point doesn't really matter when discussing what Aegon did because: Aegon did not start burning villages to try and end the war (though he may have hoped they did, but there is no way to say for sure), he did it because he was angry the Dornish killed Rhaenys (at least that's the impression I got from Fire & Blood) Aegon burning villages did not end the war Edited June 27, 2023 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: I think so, but the point doesn't really matter when discussing what Aegon did because: Aegon did not start burning villages to try and end the war (though he may have hoped they did, but there is no way to say for sure), he did it because he was angry the Dornish killed Rhaenys (at least that's the impression I got from Fire & Blood) Aegon burning villages did not end the war He did it to avenge his wife and the mutilated knights, despite the war crimes did by the dornishmen he accepted the peace and people of Reach and Stormlands waited for the Vulture King to have revenge against Dorne. It is clear it was no more a war between house Targaryen and Dorne, but dornish marches and the Reach against dornishmen that raped, tortured and enslaved their people in their lands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 The lords of dornish marches and the Reach were not happy about the treaty of peace signed by Aegon, they wanted he and the sister to keep the devastation of Dorne for their crimes in their lands, and those crimes are slavery, poisoning entire households, murder, rape and torture. People think the burnings are war crimes, they are not, bombing of civilians has been strategy used by allies in Ww2 and France made a bombardement Algeria to free captives in 1683. It is impossible for the smallfolk not to know what the lords and torturers did to the captive knights, the lords keep their power by using torture methods, the Ullers burn alive their rivals and they expose their habit in their vessils. No mercy for people that encourage slavery and rapes, dornishmen deserved worse than the Dragon wroth. So Martells supported all this obscenity and Aegon is the bad guy, who signed the peace even though probably he should have given to his wife the gift of mercy on Dragonstone. The invasion excuse has no sense, otherwise Vlad Tepes III should be considered a national hero for the forest of the impaled made of 20000 Turkish soldiers impaled on sticks that terrorized the Sultan Mehmed II and his army.Dorne proved to be a lands of cowards, able to make horrible things to prisoners, but they did not avenge the kids of their princess, because they were afraid of the new king Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: People think the burnings are war crimes, they are not, bombing of civilians has been strategy used by allies in Ww2 That doesn't mean they aren't war crimes. Just because you carry out a war crime with the objective of doing something else 'good', it doesn't then make what you did not a war crime. And this is a moot point anyway because Aegon was not carrying out the burnings due to a 'good' objective, but because he was angry the Dornish killed his sister. 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: impossible for the smallfolk not to know what the lords and torturers did to the captive knights, the lords keep their power by using torture methods There's no evidence for this. It is just your speculation. 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Aegon is the bad guy I am not saying the Martells are good and Aegon is bad. I am saying Aegon is bad for starting the war in the first place and burning tens of thousands of people alive, and the Dornish nobles are bad for all the atrocities they committed. They are both bad. 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: The invasion excuse has no sense No one is using the invasion as an excuse to justify Dornish noble atrocities though. 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Vlad Tepes III should be considered a national hero for the forest of the impaled made of 20000 Turkish soldiers impaled on sticks Supposedly he is considered a Romanian national hero though... Edited June 28, 2023 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: That doesn't mean they aren't war crimes. Just because you carry out a war crime with the objective of doing something else 'good', it doesn't then make what you did not a war crime. And this is a moot point anyway because Aegon was not carrying out the burnings due to a 'good' objective, but because he was angry the Dornish killed his sister. There's no evidence for this. It is just your speculation. I am not saying the Martells are good and Aegon is bad. I am saying Aegon is bad for starting the war in the first place and burning tens of thousands of people alive, and the Dornish nobles are bad for all the atrocities they committed. They are both bad. No one is using the invasion as an excuse to justify Dornish noble atrocities though. Supposedly he is considered a Romanian national hero though... He started burning dornish strongholds, after Joffrey Dayne burned and sacked villages during the attempt to take Old Town and Lord Fowler burned Nightsong and captured lord Caron and his family, read the book and Vlad was not national hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Just now, KingAerys_II said: Vlad was not national hero Romanians on YouTube said he was... Just now, KingAerys_II said: He started burning dornish strongholds, I know, I was talking about the 'Dragon's Wroth', which didn't start until after Rhaenys was killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Horonno declaring himself Triarch for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 31 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Romanians on YouTube said he was... I know, I was talking about the 'Dragon's Wroth', which didn't start until after Rhaenys was killed. They did the same war crimes that both Mehmed II and Vlad Tepes did as slavery and torture, they deserved the Rhoynar's fate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: They did the same war crimes Who's 'they'? Wyl of Wyl was the one behind the nasty stuff. No evidence those villagers massacred by Aegon were involved beyond perhaps a few villages being part of Wyl's army, and even that is a stretch. Orys got revenge on Wyl by chopping his son's hands and feet off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Who's 'they'? Wyl of Wyl was the one behind the nasty stuff. No evidence those villagers massacred by Aegon were involved beyond perhaps a few villages being part of Wyl's army, and even that is a stretch. Orys got revenge on Wyl by chopping his son's hands and feet off. Yes, some houses deserved the fate of House Hoare, Wyl, Blackmont, Uller, the scum of Dorne. Salty dornishmen are normal, decent, the same for the Rhoynars that lived on the Greenbold. If I am not wrong King Daeron made a description of dornish houses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said: Yes, some houses deserved the fate of House Hoare, Wyl, Blackmont, Uller, the scum of Dorne. I agree the Ullers and the Wyls at that time are just bad news, but the issue for me, is that the people Aegon was targeting, Dornish villagers, have nothing to do with what those people were doing. 2 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Salty dornishmen are normal, decent, the same for the Rhoynars that lived on the Greenbold. I don't think it is a good idea to say that one 'phenotype' is good and the others are not... 3 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: If I am not wrong King Daeron made a description of dornish houses He divided them into categories based on whether they were more Andal or Rhoynar but there isn't really much evidence to suggest this is how the Dornish see themselves, only non-Dornish seem to look at them this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: Romanians on YouTube said he was... Dracula? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said: Dracula? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Yes. Well, according to some accounts he used to nail newborns in the chest of their impaled mothers, accounts of a Christian Saint, these people never lived during his rule, I don't think he was national hero, Skadenberg was a national hero, Vlad was a sadistic ruler, who enjoyed the torture, these people on YouTube are ignorant or have serious problems Edited June 28, 2023 by KingAerys_II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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