Corvo the Crow Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 Black Gate, which we are told to be as old as the Wall, speaking in the tongue of the Andals. Where the hell did it even learn it? How did the Andal taint corrupt that door made one of the purest beings, the white Nimloth weirwood? Or was it constructed after the Andal Invasions? Then it would mean there was still magic knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: How did the Andal taint corrupt that door made one of the purest beings The savages that populated Westeros prior the coming of the Faithful should be thankful that they were taught a proper language. In all seriousness I think it's probably speaking in the Common Tongue due to plot reasons. The people who needed to use it can't speak the Old Tongue. Also, not everyone at the wall was a First Man so we can assume it may have had contact with Andals/common tongue speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: The savages that populated Westeros prior the coming of the Faithful should be thankful that they were taught a proper language. Savages you say? Pray tell ser, who were the ones that carved the symbol of a god that don't even exist upon their very flesh? Need I remind you that First Men were a very advanced people with a house of learning unrivalled in the entire planetos, the Citadel? Citadel, founded by King Urrigon Hightower, whose mother was Maris the Maid daughter of Garth and whose father Uthor ordered Bran the Builder to build the high tower, these all happened in age of heroes as evidenced by the people involved so long before Andals. Quote In all seriousness I think it's probably speaking in the Common Tongue due to plot reasons. The people who needed to use it can't speak the Old Tongue. Also, not everyone at the wall was a First Man so we can assume it may have had contact with Andals/common tongue speakers. In all seriousness, poor world building exactly as the title says. First Men should have kept their language so those who come to NW could learn it. North had no reason to learn the tainted tongue of the corrupt savages, the Andals. Sure, the border regions could get exposed to it but then, the border regions aren't even exposed to the other Northerners. Edited October 28, 2022 by Corvo the Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Savages you say? Pray tell ser, who were the ones that carved the symbol of a god that don't even exist upon their very flesh? Need I remind you that First Men were a very advanced people with a house of learning unrivalled in the entire planetos, the Citadel? Citadel, founded by King Urrigon Hightower, whose mother was Maris the Maid daughter of Garth and whose father Uthor ordered Bran the Builder to build the high tower, these all happened in age of heroes as evidenced by the people involved so long before Andals. If the so called First Men were so advanced, then why did their tongue die out? (Seriously though, I agree, North should still be speaking the old tongue...) 9 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: In all seriousness, poor world building exactly as the title says. First Men should have kept their language so those who come to NW could learn it. North had no reason to learn the tainted tongue of the corrupt savages, the Andals. Sure, the border regions could get exposed to it but then, the border regions aren't even exposed to the other Northerners. It is quite silly. I mean the North is isloated religiously as well, so it's not like the Common tongue could have spread through the spread of the Faith... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: If the so called First Men were so advanced, then why did their tongue die out? (Seriously though, I agree, North should still be speaking the old tongue...) It is quite silly. I mean the North is isloated religiously as well, so it's not like the Common tongue could have spread through the spread of the Faith... World building wasn't given much thought, I mean, seriously it only gets a somewhat decent touch with The World of Ice and Fire about two decades after the first book was ever published and even that is very lackluster. It is quite apparent that characters have always been the primary focus with little to no thought given into anything else, including many of the secondary plotlines. Edited October 28, 2022 by Corvo the Crow Aldarion and Craving Peaches 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: including many of the secondary plotlines. Just look at the first book. Lots of concern over where Robert Arryn was going to be fostered and how Jaime shouldn't be warden of the east and west. Basically never mentioned again. The first book is weird. Corvo the Crow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Just look at the first book. Lots of concern over where Robert Arryn was going to be fostered and how Jaime shouldn't be warden of the east and west. Basically never mentioned again. The first book is weird. Don’t forget Tyrion’s quest to destroy the Vale. That was dropped almost before it was started. Joff planning to fight Robb in single combat as well. Edited October 28, 2022 by sifth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Tyrion and Jaime were rather busy after that, Cersei if she gave Robin Arryn any thought at all likely thought he like Tommen was better off with his mother, Tywin and Stannis both wanted Lisa Arryn to help them not declare against them so likely dropped the issue when Lisa told them her son wasn't going to be fostered with them. much of the worldbuilding is subpar but those plots being dropped made sense. Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 4 hours ago, sifth said: Don’t forget Tyrion’s quest to destroy the Vale. Don't they mention that the mountain clan raiders are better armed than before though? So it hasn't been dropped completely... 4 hours ago, sifth said: Joff planning to fight Robb in single combat as well. To be fair I don't think that was ever going to work out. Robb died... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Don't they mention that the mountain clan raiders are better armed than before though? So it hasn't been dropped completely... To be fair I don't think that was ever going to work out. Robb died... Joffrey likely wanted to until he heard Robb already died, had the Northmen been at the Blackwater he likely would have tried to face Robb but Cersei rightly for once would have stopped him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: Joffrey likely wanted to until he heard Robb already died, had the Northmen been at the Blackwater he likely would have tried to face Robb but Cersei rightly for once would have stopped him. If Greywind was there then what is the point of fighting Robb in single combat though? Instant loss for whoever isn't Robb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Honestly Joffrey wouldn't have had a chance regardless, Robb had improved he hadn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) The size of cities in Yi Ti. It should be impossible to feed a city that large, considering that the royal palace alone is the size of KL. Sure, IRL we have ridiculously sized things like Versailles and the Forbidden City, but not on this scale. Edited October 28, 2022 by Jaenara Belarys Aldarion and Ingelheim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: The size of cities in Yi Ti. It should be impossible to feed a city that large, considering that the royal palace alone is the size of KL. Sure, IRL we have ridiculously sized things like Versailles and the Forbidden City, but not on this scale. That is only the case because Kings Landing is already so huge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 23 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: No, those birds are rare. Who knows, with all the whackjobs at the citadel perhaps they are forcefully skinchanging people into the ravens and since most of these people would be lowborn simpletons, they can only learn one castle and the occasional lower nobility who misbehaved becomes a raven that can learnmore places. I still think that's kind of a misnomer. By "two castles" he means a bird from Winterfell could fly to either Castle Black or East Watch. Messenger pigeons are trained to do this, mostly by doing what you say: establishing a home in one location then physically transporting the bird to another where it is fed and cared for, causing the bird to eventually fly back and forth between the two locations. That's a far more plausible explanation than an entire network of bird-shuttling that we've never seen or heard about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Don't they mention that the mountain clan raiders are better armed than before though? So it hasn't been dropped completely... To be fair I don't think that was ever going to work out. Robb died... Actually is GRRM's original outline for the series, Joff and Robb were suppose to fight each other and Robb was suppose to severely injure Joff. Naturally this would have happened before the Red Wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Strikes Back Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) The fact that, according to F & B, none of the Stark, Arryn, Durrandon, Lannister, or Gardener kings ever bothered to establish a unitary law or tax code within their borders despite ruling for thousands of years. Oh, and they also couldn't be bothered to build decent roads either. Edited October 28, 2022 by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back Vaegon the dragonless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, sifth said: Actually is GRRM's original outline for the series, Joff and Robb were suppose to fight each other and Robb was suppose to severely injure Joff. Naturally this would have happened before the Red Wedding. Jon and Tyrion were going to come to odds over Arya as well and Jaime was going to be king. I'm thankful that at least these didn't come to pass. Edited October 28, 2022 by Corvo the Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Jaime was going to be king There are a few left over hints of that plotline in the first book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: There are a few left over hints of that plotline in the first book. Yup, Jamie is a very different character in the first book, than he is the other 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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