History That Inspired ASOIAF

[Angel Eyes]

Perhaps unintentional, but Ned Stark has a similar background to Albert Duke of York/George VI. A second son who didn't expect to rule, but was forced to become ruler due to unforeseen circumstances and had to lead his country through a war, for which he gained respect. Also had two daughters whose personalities repeatedly clashed.

[SeanF]

9 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

It seems that the Reach in general is based on medieval France, so I wonder which castle is the closest to being an equivalent to Highgarden. Almost all of the famous chateaus were built long after the Middle Ages.

Pierrefonds or Chambord, perhaps.

They are both medieval, although Pierrefonds was rebuilt in the 19th century, in romantic style.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

28 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Pierrefonds or Chambord, perhaps.

They are both medieval, although Pierrefonds was rebuilt in the 19th century, in romantic style.

I think Chambord is probably the closest, although Highgarden is "cranked up to 11", as GRRM puts it.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Aegon IV’s mistress Bethany Bracken seems to be a direct parallel to Catherine Howard, Henry VIII’s fifth wife: a teenage girl related to one of the previous mistresses (Catherine was Anne Boleyn’s cousin), who is pimped out to a gross old king by her family, falls in love with a younger man in his service, then gets caught, resulting in both of their deaths.

[Hugorfonics]

21 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m currently listening to The Wars of the Roses by Dan Jones

Is it good? Im sure it is. Ive never read it but I have read 2 or 3 other books by Jones and they were really tremendous.

 

My favorite parallels or inspiration is Dany is like Liu Bei and if her son grew up he'd be a lot like Quanah Parker

[The Bard of Banefort]

46 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Is it good? Im sure it is. Ive never read it but I have read 2 or 3 other books by Jones and they were really tremendous.

 

My favorite parallels or inspiration is Dany is like Liu Bei and if her son grew up he'd be a lot like Quanah Parker

Yes, it’s excellent.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Perhaps unintentional, but Ned Stark has a similar background to Albert Duke of York/George VI. A second son who didn't expect to rule, but was forced to become ruler due to unforeseen circumstances and had to lead his country through a war, for which he gained respect. Also had two daughters whose personalities repeatedly clashed.

Isn't Ned supposed to be based on William Hastings?

[Lord Varys]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:50 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

It’s not just history. A huge portion of world building elements are taken straight out of Dune.

For historical inspiration alone, here an example for a battle

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice

I'd suggest we wait how that particular plays out in the books before jump to premature conclusions regarding inspirations. It could play out like that ... or not. What's different already in ASoIaF is that there might be multiple armies and/or multiple factions there. The Manderlys could easily enough attacking the Freys all by themselves, at the lake, or long before they reach it.

On 1/27/2023 at 8:07 AM, Craving Peaches said:

I've read that Braavos is based on Venice somewhat.

Not just somewhat. It is a much grander version of Venice with a different backstory. Although the whole 'bastard daughter coming its own' also fits Venice to a point since it was originally a Byzantine colony.

On 1/27/2023 at 8:07 AM, Craving Peaches said:

The Rogare family is based on the Medici.

Yes, pretty much. And since FaB Lys is even more based on Florence than it was since we now know they have gonfalonieres there.

On 1/27/2023 at 8:07 AM, Craving Peaches said:

Valyria is the in-word equivalent of Rome.

Somewhat on Rome. Old Ghis as well. But Valyria is also an Atlantis-like city/state. And, of course, a fantasy society of sorcerers and dragonriders.

22 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m currently listening to The Wars of the Roses by Dan Jones, and he’s pretty sympathetic to Margaret of Anjou, who is often compared to Cersei. He doesn’t give credence to any of the rumors of infidelity, and although he talks about how Margaret played favorites and antagonized Richard of York, he also suggests that Richard rebelled in part because he didn’t like that Margaret, a woman, now held more power than him.

Don't think there are many parallels there - Margaret is like many a medieval queen in the bad position of having to step up and take charge while her husband is incapable or unwilling to do his job.

22 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Is Henry VI a parallel to Baelor the Blessed? Even if Henry was “mad,” it doesn’t sound like he was uncommonly cruel like Aerys was. And he certainly was pious.

Don't think so. George doesn't seem to have a direct parallel to Henry VI - in fact, he doesn't base many of his kings actually on historical kings but rather takes certain characters traits and other features and combines them. The Targaryen succession is kind of based roughly on the Norman and Plantagenet kings in the beginning, but only for superficial details like the Conqueror being followed by two sons rather a son and a grandson and then there being a succession war between a female and a male pretender.

Baelor the Blessed is more a genuine creation of George with parallels to pious monarchs who actually exerted a lot of power and pushed through certain things. But since Baelor's rule is not only not very long but begins when the guy is still a youth there is really no clear parallel there.

23 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

The Accursed Kings, a series of historical novels based on the tribulations of the French monarchy in the late 13th to most of the 14th century, was a massive inspiration for A Song of Ice and Fire according to Martin. Tywin, for instance, bears resemblance to Philip IV of France, a blond, icy, unsmiling ruler who brought France to great heights only for his daughter to undo all of his gains. Speaking of which, Cersei bears some resemblance to Queen Isabella of England, consort of Edward II. Like Cersei, Isabella had an unhappy marriage to her husband Edward, who favored others, leading to Isabella/Cersei openly plotting against him. And like Cersei, Isabella instigated a plot against a trio of women by framing them for adultery.

George basically ripped the entire AFfC Margaery plot from that book series. That was too much and is really cheap on his part, actually.

Also the shit about bastards growing up sooner and the whole thing about the rightful king being hidden away to push his claim later.

22 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

IIRC, it's not the historical Tiberius but his portrayal in the series I, Claudius. 

Yes, specifically that. Tiberius mommy/step-daddy issues there are transferred to Robert.

 

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Old Ghis as well.

I always thought of Old Ghis being like Carthage. Although the Rhoynar could also fit that.

[Lord Varys]

Oh, and the whole 'Stark crypt moment' from AGoT is also taken almost verbatim from a passage in Druon about the burial ground of the French kings in St. Denis.

[Lord Varys]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

I always thought of Old Ghis being like Carthage. Although the Rhoynar could also fit that.

Old Ghis did have foot soldier legions like the Romans. The six wars between Valyria and Ghis are based on the Punic Wars, of course, but Old Ghis is only Carthage in the sense that they lost.

Valyria is like Rome in the sense that they were kind of a republic - but that's it. They had no Roman-style military that we know of.

The Free Cities and the free companies are very much based on/inspired by certain depictions of the city-states of medieval Italy. Especially in Druon and Costain.

[Corvo the Crow]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd suggest we wait how that particular plays out in the books before jump to premature conclusions regarding inspirations. It could play out like that ... or not. What's different already in ASoIaF is that there might be multiple armies and/or multiple factions there. The Manderlys could easily enough attacking the Freys all by themselves, at the lake, or long before they reach it.

Inspiration doesn’t mean it’ll be sure to happen the same way though. Just look at Braavos for comparison, I can’t consider it to be “inspired” because it has too much Dune stuff crammed into it, tleilaxu face dancers/faceless men, nation full of islands, sword masters of Ginaz/ water dancers,  it feels like straight out ripoff.

[The Bard of Banefort]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:55 AM, SeanF said:

Yes.  The ghastly outcome of the whole affair (the D'Aunay brothers tortured, gelded,and flayed, the women forced to watch, with their heads shaved, before being confined to an underground prison) basically killed off the whole tradition of courtly love, in France.

Courtly love was also used to entrap Anne Boleyn. She was probably innocent though, firstly because she was quite sharp and it’s unlikely she would have endangered herself like that. But also—and this is really just my own theory—despite her reputation as a seductress, she comes across as somewhat asexual based on what I’ve read about her. It’s kind of like how Melisandre is written in the books; I don’t think Anne was driven much by desire, but rather pure ambition.

[Aebram]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:05 PM, Craving Peaches said:

I always thought of Old Ghis being like Carthage. Although the Rhoynar could also fit that.

I thought that Carthage was the inspiration for Qarth.  Besides the names, I think there are some similarities in the physical layout, although I'm certainly no expert.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:55 AM, SeanF said:

Yes.  The ghastly outcome of the whole affair (the D'Aunay brothers tortured, gelded,and flayed, the women forced to watch, with their heads shaved, before being confined to an underground prison) basically killed off the whole tradition of courtly love, in France.

It's impossible to prove that those encounters were sexual in nature, though.

[Angel Eyes]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:26 PM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Isn't Ned supposed to be based on William Hastings?

Yes, him as well due to his comradeship with Edward IV (an inspiration for Robert Baratheon), but Ned also has aspects of Richard Duke of York (Edward and Richard's brother), as well as Richard III himself.

[The Bard of Banefort]

One thing I’m noticing as I read more is that it wasn’t totally uncommon for highborn women to marry lowborn men for a second marriage, usually in secret. Katherine of Valois, Jacquetta of Luxembourg, and Mary Boleyn all did so, with varying degrees of repercussions. I’m Jacquetta’s case, Henry VI and Margaret of Anjou seemed to have held them both in high enough esteem that they didn’t suffer much for their indiscretions. Anne Boleyn had been sending her sister money and had taken Mary’s daughter in as one of her ladies-in-waiting, so she may have eventually been forgiven had Anne had a son and lived.

I’ve noticed a number of cases like these in FnB and TWOIAF (namely Rhaena Targaryen), and I’m guessing there’ll be more to come. ASOIAF has no shortage of romances 

[The Bard of Banefort]

Edmund and Jasper Tudor are probably a good example of how raising up your half-siblings can be a benefit rather than a detriment. It’s not exactly a Bloodraven situation, since they were Henry VI’s maternal half-brothers, and therefore not technically English royalty, but they remained loyal to him until his death, and only sought to crown Henry Tudor after the king and his son had both died.

[The Bard of Banefort]

On 1/28/2023 at 6:01 PM, Lord Varys said:

I'd suggest we wait how that particular plays out in the books before jump to premature conclusions regarding inspirations. It could play out like that ... or not. What's different already in ASoIaF is that there might be multiple armies and/or multiple factions there. The Manderlys could easily enough attacking the Freys all by themselves, at the lake, or long before they reach it.

Not just somewhat. It is a much grander version of Venice with a different backstory. Although the whole 'bastard daughter coming its own' also fits Venice to a point since it was originally a Byzantine colony.

Yes, pretty much. And since FaB Lys is even more based on Florence than it was since we now know they have gonfalonieres there.

Somewhat on Rome. Old Ghis as well. But Valyria is also an Atlantis-like city/state. And, of course, a fantasy society of sorcerers and dragonriders.

Don't think there are many parallels there - Margaret is like many a medieval queen in the bad position of having to step up and take charge while her husband is incapable or unwilling to do his job.

Don't think so. George doesn't seem to have a direct parallel to Henry VI - in fact, he doesn't base many of his kings actually on historical kings but rather takes certain characters traits and other features and combines them. The Targaryen succession is kind of based roughly on the Norman and Plantagenet kings in the beginning, but only for superficial details like the Conqueror being followed by two sons rather a son and a grandson and then there being a succession war between a female and a male pretender.

Baelor the Blessed is more a genuine creation of George with parallels to pious monarchs who actually exerted a lot of power and pushed through certain things. But since Baelor's rule is not only not very long but begins when the guy is still a youth there is really no clear parallel there.

George basically ripped the entire AFfC Margaery plot from that book series. That was too much and is really cheap on his part, actually.

Also the shit about bastards growing up sooner and the whole thing about the rightful king being hidden away to push his claim later.

Yes, specifically that. Tiberius mommy/step-daddy issues there are transferred to Robert.

 

The Cersei/Margaret parallels work if you believe in the caricature of Margaret as a greedy, vindictive, adulterous, and generally stupid queen (all of which book-Cersei is). Plenty of historians belief that was slander though, or at least an exaggeration.

[Angel Eyes]

The Dance of the Dragons bears some resemblance to The Anarchy, a civil war in England that took place over about 15-20 years starting from 1135. Like Viserys I, King Henry I named his daughter Matilda his heir as he had no living male children (Baelon died shortly after birth, William Adelin was killed when the ship he was on sunk), but she was usurped by another relative when Henry died, in Matilda's case her first cousin Stephen of Blois. Unlike the Dance of the Dragons, a truce was eventually enacted between Stephen and Matilda's son Henry in which Henry would inherit the throne upon Stephen's death, vindicating Matilda's claim, with Matilda dying peacefully unlike Rhaenyra being incinerated.