HOTD Musings

[Ran]

For those wondering, he points out that it had 30% of the viewership of BoB while costing, like, twice as much to make, so no, it probably did not drive enough subscriptions to merit the cost at the time. Obviously, we have no idea how much it's been seen in the intervening years, and even today it's still earning some money as Warner Bros. has licensed it and a bunch of other HBO back-catalog shows to Netflix. In fact, the reason I decided to rewatch The Pacific on HBO Max recently was because it popped up on my Netflix account.

[Potsk]

Have we gone over that one scene with Boremund yet? In the tourney scene in episode 1 Rhaenys calls Boremund Baratheon "cousin."

In the books he's the brother of her mother Jocelyn and thus her uncle, and also the half-brother of Jaehaerys I and thus her granduncle. Not really a cousin in any way significant enough for her to address him as that. He's Corlys's cousin if anything.

The script says Boremund is in his 40s, and the episode takes place in 112 AC, meaning at the oldest he's 9 years younger than his book self and at the youngest he's 18 years younger than his book self.

Possible explanation: the TV series added another generation of Baratheon between Rogar and Boremund. Jocelyn (still the daughter of Alyssa Velaryon) is Boremund's aunt, not sister. Therefore Boremund and Rhaenys are first cousins.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Potsk said:

Possible explanation: the TV series added another generation of Baratheon between Rogar and Boremund. Jocelyn (still the daughter of Alyssa Velaryon) is Boremund's aunt, not sister. Therefore Boremund and Rhaenys are first cousins.

That is the idea most people are going with. If Jaehaerys I rules as long as he did then more time passed between his ascension and the beginning of the show as Viserys I has sat on the throne for about 10 years by the time the show starts, not just 1-2.

Rhaenys and Boremund looke pretty much of the same age in the show. Also, of course, the later behavior of Borros really makes more sense in the show if he and Rhaenys weren't so closely related as they are in the book. His behavior there is hard to swallow, as is the fact that Rhaenyra's faction (or the Velaryon-Targaryens in general) didn't keep closer ties with Storm's End.

All of Borros' daughters were perfect potential brides for Rhaenyra's sons - especially for the younger ones, Joffrey, Aegon, and Viserys.

[Lord Varys]

Thinking about arbitrary things:

Us hearing that Rhaenyra might go to Storm's End in the show to collect Luke's corpse makes a lot of sense. The narrative in FaB makes little to no sense since chances are very low Rhaenyra would just collapse in grief and despair after receiving letters that her son died. Yes, yes, eventually others would corroborate the tale, but there are no real witnesses to a dragon battle taking place in a storm at night, and until such a time as Lucerys Velaryon's corpse is found and seen by or delivered to his mother the boy would not be dead officially. Hope prevails until proven otherwise.

The carcass of Arrax would be a strong sign, but no confirmation of Luke's death.

Robb and Catelyn only buy that Bran and Rickon are dead because Theon actually publicly presents corpses that seem to belong to the children. And those stories reach them eventually. Ditto with Wyman Manderly faking the death of Davos.

[BetrayedKingdom]

On 10/8/2023 at 9:05 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t think they’ll cut Sara Snow. She’s the only female Stark in the story, and they’ve already resisted cutting characters like Rhaena who don’t really have anything to do during the Dance.

Have you considered that they may include Cregan's first wife, Arra Norrey, adjusting the timeline to include their relationship in Jace's visit - rather than submitting to this Sara Snow plotline that comes from Mushroom, setting the table for some Cregan character motivation/development in future seasons with Black Aly? If I was bent on a female presence in WF in S2, I'd lean Norrey over Sara being included, given the source of that particular tale. They don't seem inclined to present any of those accounts as factual.

[The Bard of Banefort]

6 minutes ago, BetrayedKingdom said:

Have you considered that they may include Cregan's first wife, Arra Norrey, adjusting the timeline to include their relationship in Jace's visit - rather than submitting to this Sara Snow plotline that comes from Mushroom, setting the table for some Cregan character motivation/development in future seasons with Black Aly? If I was bent on a female presence in WF in S2, I'd lean Norrey over Sara being included, given the source of that particular tale. They don't seem inclined to present any of those accounts as factual.

The Dance ends with Cregan marrying Aly Blackwood. Unless Norrey dies right after she is introduced, I doubt we’ll be seeing her.

[BetrayedKingdom]

30 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The Dance ends with Cregan marrying Aly Blackwood. Unless Norrey dies right after she is introduced, I doubt we’ll be seeing her.

That was the thought. Norrey is there with Cregan when Jace visits, full term or late term in her pregnancy with Rickon, & they make this Pact of Ice and Fire. Or she births Rickon mid visit, when the men travel to The Wall, so they definitively know the sex of the child - heartbreak ensues, & the Pact is sealed at that point.

[The Dragon Demands]

The season 2 wrap party is later today: 

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

The newest rumor is that Alicent will go to Dragonstone to confront Rhaenyra in the finale. I’m not too surprised, since the showrunners have been insistent that their relationship is at the heart of the show, but it is a bit nonsensical. First from a logistical standpoint (Alicent would be going straight into the enemy’s lair), but also because B&C really should put a definitive end to their friendship.

[SeanF]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:03 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

The interesting thing about reading show-fans’ thoughts on HOTD online is that the most consistent critique I see, aside from “not enough happening,” is that it doesn’t have a Tyrion—not even Tyrion himself, but just a character who fills a similar role (the Hound gets mentioned quite a bit too). Book-fans spent so much time rolling our eyes at St. Tyrion that it was easy to forget how much of a draw he was for the show. Aside from Mushroom, the only character I think could have been refashioned into someone more Tyrion-like would have been Larys. But I’ve long felt that Larys would have been a better character if they made him less overtly evil.

It also makes me wonder how much of a franchise’s success is based on loyalty to certain archetypes. All the main Star Wars movies included a trio, a master and apprentice, a bad guy in a black cape, a droid, etc. James Bond avoided the issue entirely by having the character live forever. Even the Rings of Power showrunners were right on the money when they said that any LOTR product needed some kind of hobbit to succeed. Perhaps that’s part of why Marvel has been struggling for the past few years: none of the new characters have been able to fill the shoes of Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. 

There are no words strong enough in all the tongues of ents and men to express my loathing for St. Tyrion.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Teaser trailer coming tomorrow. Here are the first posters for Rhaenyra and Alicent: https://ew.com/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-first-look-posters-emma-darcy-olivia-cooke-8409664

It will be interesting to see how they avoid the show becoming misery porn from this point forward. GOT was always able to cut away to Tyrion’s shenanigans or Arya the Riverlands Ninja Warrior. HOTD doesn’t have that.

[The Dragon Demands]

We're not 100% confirmed if it's the full trailer or perhaps clips of several scenes, but I'd take either one - point is they're releasing "footage" of some kind and admitted to it.

[The Bard of Banefort]

15 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

We're not 100% confirmed if it's the full trailer or perhaps clips of several scenes, but I'd take either one - point is they're releasing "footage" of some kind and admitted to it.

Usually the first trailer is only around a minute long and is a series of character shots with a voiceover.

[The Dragon Demands]

Ah, when the official Game of Thrones Twitter retweeted this from the HotD twitter, they added "75 seconds are coming: 

I checked: the first Season 1 teaser was also exactly 75 seconds long. Difference is that those who saw it said that this one has a lot more substantial dialogue in it. For comparison, the season 1 teaser:

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[Ran]

Hah. A month to the day since I said we'd get the trailer within a month.

[The Dragon Demands]

Even a month ago we thought CCXP was most likely, but dear god did we go crazy with assumptions last winter about the full trailer date. Teaser was October 5, full trailer wasn’t until the following MAY, but every weekend in December we thought it was “next weekend! 

Edited December 1, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[The Dragon Demands]

I wonder if the teaser tomorrow will reveal the return of the White Walkers to a general audience - we know that from publicly circulated spy photos from the makeup department and spy photos of the new Wall set they built.

Because we reacted with cautious optimism: they loathe what season 8 did.

 

(shrug) they were hesitant about “another Westeros show” in general before season one. Probably same pattern this time: a lot of sound and fury when the teaser comes only to like what they actually do 

[The Dragon Demands]

If *I* was inventing a subplot showing what the White Walkers are doing in this prequel era, I’d have them riding ice spiders…big as hounds…and make damn sure to put that in the teaser trailer.

Edited December 1, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[Ran]

58 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

we thought

Royal we? I distinctly recall your repeatedly stating it was around the corner, and getting some stick for it. Personally, I had no expectations.

[The Dragon Demands]

Me and the spy reporters on Twitter and Reddit; hyping each other up “maybe next week!” 

English doesn’t distinguish inclusive “we” like Hawaiian