HOTD Musings

[The Dragon Demands]

Cregan is 21 years old when the Dance begins, this actor is 22

[The Bard of Banefort]

There are rumors that Rhaenyra will be sneaking into KL towards the end of the season, but no hint as to why. I’m guessing she’ll be having some sort of last-ditch face-to-face meeting with Alicent (ala Tyrion and Jaime in S7), since Condal has said their relationship will remain the focal point going forward. 

I also heard a rumor that Aemond will still struggle to tame Vhagar, which is. . . okay, I guess. Hasn’t he been riding her for the better part of a decade now? I suppose it would be part of a larger arc of Aemond coming into his supervillain status, but it kind of reminds me of Daemon’s ED problem that was supposed to reveal his inner turmoil, only to then disappear mid-season.

On 9/24/2023 at 7:26 PM, The Dragon Demands said:

I can confirm that Tom Taylor is Cregan Stark. The spy reporters from HouseTheDragon, HotDCroatia, RealmOfTheDragon, and Redaniian Intelligence showed me materials on their private Discord server that I can't discuss in public. But suffice to say that these are the same people that broke that Amanda Collin has been cast as Jeyne Arryn:
 

 

Do you know if there is any validity to that old rumor about a love story between Cregan and Jace? 

[Corvinus85]

I'm glad they case a suitably young actor for Cregan. It's easy to imagine Cregan as older because of some of the artwork from F&B. 

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

@The Dragon Demands

I meant more that the actor looks a little too fresh-faced for my tastes. With Cregan, I expect a certain harshness even as a young man. That and, considering how cold it gets in the North, he ought not be clean-shaven. Obviously, YMMV though.

Edited September 26, 2023 by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

[Corvinus85]

23 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

@The Dragon Demands

I meant more that the actor looks a little too fresh-faced for my tastes. With Cregan, I expect a certain harshness even as a young man. That and, considering how cold it gets in the North, he ought not be clean-shaven. Obviously, YMMV though.

That picture is just his casting profile. We don't know how he will look like in the show.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

That picture is just his casting profile. We don't know how he will look like in the show.

I know. I just meant that was my first impression is all.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Word on the street is that Rhaena goes to the Vale in episode 7, and that Aegon will be accompanying her (no word on Viserys). This is all presumably before the Battle of the Gullet. So will the Gullet be merged with Rhaenyra taking King’s Landing then?

[The Bard of Banefort]

Okay. . . which one of you is Ben?

https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/5Ou4qUQcrX

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

12 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Word on the street is that Rhaena goes to the Vale in episode 7, and that Aegon will be accompanying her (no word on Viserys). This is all presumably before the Battle of the Gullet. So will the Gullet be merged with Rhaenyra taking King’s Landing then?

Have they cut Stormcloud? 
I vaguely recall the producers saying they had a certain number of dragons which didn’t quite add up to me, so this may have been something they’d planned for a while. 
 

I guess it could actually make more sense for Aegon III’s character never to have had a dragon? A phobia of them is understandable after seeing what Sunfyre did to Rhaenyra, but having had a bond with a dragon himself, who would die saving his life… I feel like Aegon III *hating* dragons is close to plot-hole worthy for the book. 

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

15 hours ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

Have they cut Stormcloud? 
I vaguely recall the producers saying they had a certain number of dragons which didn’t quite add up to me, so this may have been something they’d planned for a while. 

We don't know but from the number they gave us long ago, the consensus was that we will see all the dragons except Morghul, Shrykos and Stormcloud.

[The Dragon Demands]

First off, they listed the 17 grown dragons in the season one finale, not the three hatchlings - because they presumably want to show them actually hatching on-screen. For all we know, one or more might have been cut. 

Yes, Aegon III is going to the Vale with Rhaena - presumably he comes back later with Joff. Running theory is they did this because they can't really do Aegon III clinging to Stormcloud's neck with a small child actor. Fair enough, practical considerations.

Yes, we have heard that Daemon and Rhaenyra sneak around to other areas on their dragons - this isn't jetpack Littlefinger, they do have dragons. Daemon personally sneaks in to KL at the end of episode 1 to set up Blood and Cheese, while Rhaenyra flies to Storm's End where she sees Luke's corpse (or maybe Arrax's corpse?) confirming he's gone. I don't consider either of these a big change. Daemon might also fly back and forth from Harrenhal to Dragonstone for the Sowing of the Dragonseeds (i'm less sure on this). 

...there are semi-credible rumors that we'll see Rhaenyra sneaking into KL with Marilda of Hull, who is smuggling food supplies in to the smallfolk during the blockade. We DO know that there are food riots by episode 4. 

Finally, according to credible sources, Rhaenyra herself is at Harrenhal in episode 8, where she meets Simon Strong - why else do you think they cast such a prominent veteran actor as Simon Beale?  But that's literally all we can confirm of this; we DO NOT think Rhaenyra takes Harrenhal WITH Daemon - other leaks said they weren't speaking for a bit after Luke died, Daemon's scene with Alys acts as if Rhaenyra is still on Dragonstone. People are making up a LOT of half-truths about this.

But I'm grudgingly willing to accept that people can be flying back and forth from Dragonstone to Harrenhal, it's not THAT far for a dragon.

[The Dragon Demands]

I'm going to re-write a better version of this, but off the top of my head just to immediately clear things up, this is the Season 2 outline so far. We don't know writers only directors. These are the CREDIBLE reports, not clickbait making stuff up for attention.

Episode 1 - "A Son for a Son" - Directed by Alan Taylor

• Rhaenyra flies to the beach of Shipbreaker Bay and finds Luke or Arrax's corpse (this was one of the unreliable narrator moments from the book, what happened to Luke's body; they took a third option)
• Reactions to Luke's death at Dragonstone.
• Reactions to Luke's death at King's Landing - Aegon II feasts Aemond at the "Cock's Inn", which we think is in Flea Bottom. The handmaid he assaulted, "Dyana", may or may not be working there, but we know she appears in multiple episodes this season. 
• PRESUMABLY Jace visits the Eyrie and Winterfell around this point, but we've heard no specific leaks about it.
• Daemon takes Harrenhal. Takes a minor wound or something, and while getting it patched up meets the mysterious Alys Rivers (source: leaked casting video). 
• Final scene is Daemon sneaking into KL on a fishing boat, to set up Blood & Cheese.

Episode 2 - Directed by Clare Kilner

• Blood & Cheese. 
• We don't know if Maelor will exist in the TV show.
• We SUSPECT that the Battle of the Burning Mill happens in episode 2 or 3, filmed near Penmachno valley in Wales. They DID spend a lot of time setting up the Blackwoods and Brackens in Season 1 (in episodes 4 and 6). ZERO word on casting them.

Episode 3 - Directed by Geeta Patel

• Reactions to Blood & Cheese.
• Spy footage showed Aemond overseeing the beheadings of several prisoners in a Red Keep courtyard; I think it happens in this episode, as in the book after Blood & Cheese the Greens responded by executing their remaining prisoners who wouldn't bend the knee.
• Chronologically, Cargyll Bowl should happen around this point, but we've seen no specific leaks.
• Aegon II fires Otto and replaces him as Hand of the King with Criston Cole (Criston seen wearing Hand of the King necklace of office in episode four). 
• Large invented sequence filmed on the streets of Caceres with many spy photos: the Greens hold a funeral procession throughout the city, with a herald shouting "Behold the work of Rhaenyra the Cruel!" - trying to propagandize this for all its worth. Alicent and a not particularly insane looking Helaena ride in a carriage behind the casket. When they pass through Flea Bottom, however, they are booed and people throw rotten (inedible) food at them, a food riot breaks out. Alicent & Helaena pelted with rotten food so much they have to turn around.
• Criston Cole and some (new?) Kingsguard ride behind the royal carriage, but riding behind them are three new prominent characters - we think/hope they're not one-shots but lieutenants to major characters:
  • Martin Reyne - from the Westerlands
  • Leon Estermont - From the Stormlands
  • "Eddard Waters" - as he is black, I suspect he is a condensation of Vaemond's sons & the Silent Five Velaryons with Marston Waters (the book actually does mention in passing the Marston is from Driftmark - so maybe he was a Velaryon bastard?)
• ....A running theory I have is that they're going to use the funeral as an opportunity to introduce all of "Team Green" together in one place for TV viewers, or at least as many as practical. Introducing other Greens we haven't met before. Including, possibly.....Daeron Targaryen and Ormund Hightower? It's just a theory, no evidence. but the roads aren't closed yet as the north of the Reach isn't openly rebelling. The "War of Quills and Ravens" isn't exactly over yet. But this is pure speculation - it would be weird if Alicent never shared a scene with her fourth child.

Episode 4 - "A Dance of Dragons" - Directed  by Alan Taylor

• Battle of Rook's Rest. 
• Starts with the aftermath of the Sack of Duskendale, leading in to Rook's Rest as a major action set piece (possibly THE major action set piece of the season). 

Episode 5 - Directed by Clare Kilner

• Just as episode 3 was "aftermath of Blood & Cheese", this episode is "aftermath of Rook's Rest". 
• Dragon head paraded through the streets of KL, as in the book (from very obvious Caceres spy photos).

Episode 6 - Directed by Andrij Parekh (who won an Emmy for his work on "Succession")

• We have no f-ing idea what happens in episode 6.
• Several things we used to think happen in episode 6 were later confirmed to happen in episode 7. 

Episode 7 - Directed by Loni Peristere

• In contrast to episode 6, we know quite a bit about what happens in this episode:
• Daemon is at Harrenhal by this point, standing on the battlements overseeing the troop formations of the various Riverlord Houses. Mentioned by name were Blackwood, Bracken (now that they bent the knee), Strong, Mallister, also for the first time Mooton, Piper, Darry, and even Vance. Oscar Tully rides in to Harrenhal with a delegation of Tully knights. The green young boy meets with Daemon to reluctantly explain to him that Riverrun's armies have to remain neutral until old Lord Grover dies. Notice this means that the main campaign in the Riverlands hasn't even begun yet: the Lannister pincer from the west, and Aemond's KL pincer from the east. 
• Rhaena arrives at the Eyrie, accompanied by a large entourage of knights, dragonkeepers, servants, etc. Jeyne Arryn rides down from the Eyrie with a dozen Arryn knights to meet her at the "waycastle" at base of mountain. No mention of Joff, but others pointed out to me he might have just flown ahead on his dragon (or the actor wasn't mentioned because the dragon is pure CGI). 
• Aegon III accompanies Rhaena to the Eyrie. 
• Sowing of the Dragonseeds (source: major spy photos from Llanddwyn beach). 

Episode 8 - Directed by Geeta Patel

• We really don't know much about what happens in episode 8.
• The running theory was that it either includes the Battle of the Gullet, or ends just as it's starting with the Triarchy fleet on the horizon, saving the actual battle for the Season 3 premiere.
• I would point out that Geeta Patel doesn't have a prior history of doing big battle sequences. For a while we didn't know if Alan Taylor or Geeta Patel was doing the finale, but now that we know he's doing Rook's Rest...it seems less likely there's a huge battle (but hey, first time for everything).
• It's possible that the big "action climax" of the season is in fact the Sowing of the Dragonseeds, a very CGI heavy sequence. Then episode 8 is just the aftermath of that. 
• We DO know that in episode 8, Rhaenyra flies to Harrenhal and meets with Simon Strong. How and why are unclear. 

Unclear chronology: 

• They built a physical set of the top of the Wall, and we saw a dozen Night's Watch rangers riding around in Bourne Wood for a night scene in a snowy forest. A leaked makeup department concept art board prominently labeled "UNDEAD" showed that we will see wights / zombies again in Season 2, implying a major invented storyline for Cregan and Jace. (at least, invented relative to F&B....why DID they call it "the Pact of Ice & Fire"?)
• They built a set of mostly tents with props labeled things like "Tyrosh chair" etc. Apparently we actually see envoys from the Greens talking to the Triarchy council; is this in Essos or the Stepstones? It could be meant to be Tyrosh itself, as others pointed out to me that F&B states their council was meeting IN Tyrosh at the time. Nice bit of detail.
• Large sequence of the full army of the Westerlands led by Jason Lannister passing through Golden Tooth, joined by House Lefford, and the invasion of the Riverlands begins (source: very clear spy footage). Is this episode 6? OR, plausibly, it could be the very end of episode 8 - ending on the cliffhanger that their invasion has only just begun.
• PURE CONJECTURE is that the "B" plot for certain episodes like 5 or PARTICULARLY episode 6 could in fact be Daeron at the Battle of the Honeywine (given they put so much effort into setting up House Caswell last season) but I have seen no evidence of it yet.
• As of this moment we're not even sure if Sara Snow is in the show, though we do have some candidates we think were cast (either Erica Ford or Raffiela Chapman). Daeron is *probably* Jack Cunningham-Nuttall. Nettles is apparently in the cast as we saw multiple black women at the Sowing of the Dragonseeds but we haven't ID'd any actors. 
• I'm not really sure what the King's Landing Greens are doing in the last few episodes. Five is of course reaction to Rook's Rest, but then what do Alicent or Aemond do? Debate their grand strategy at the small council, culminating in a big scene explaining they'll make a pincers movement?

Edited September 30, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

First off, they listed the 17 grown dragons in the season one finale, not the three hatchlings - because they presumably want to show them actually hatching on-screen. For all we know, one or more might have been cut. 

Yes, Aegon III is going to the Vale with Rhaena - presumably he comes back later with Joff. Running theory is they did this because they can't really do Aegon III clinging to Stormcloud's neck with a small child actor. Fair enough, practical considerations.

Yes, we have heard that Daemon and Rhaenyra sneak around to other areas on their dragons - this isn't jetpack Littlefinger, they do have dragons. Daemon personally sneaks in to KL at the end of episode 1 to set up Blood and Cheese, while Rhaenyra flies to Storm's End where she sees Luke's corpse (or maybe Arrax's corpse?) confirming he's gone. I don't consider either of these a big change. Daemon might also fly back and forth from Harrenhal to Dragonstone for the Sowing of the Dragonseeds (i'm less sure on this). 

...there are semi-credible rumors that we'll see Rhaenyra sneaking into KL with Marilda of Hull, who is smuggling food supplies in to the smallfolk during the blockade. We DO know that there are food riots by episode 4. 

Finally, according to credible sources, Rhaenyra herself is at Harrenhal in episode 8, where she meets Simon Strong - why else do you think they cast such a prominent veteran actor as Simon Beale?  But that's literally all we can confirm of this; we DO NOT think Rhaenyra takes Harrenhal WITH Daemon - other leaks said they weren't speaking for a bit after Luke died, Daemon's scene with Alys acts as if Rhaenyra is still on Dragonstone. People are making up a LOT of half-truths about this.

But I'm grudgingly willing to accept that people can be flying back and forth from Dragonstone to Harrenhal, it's not THAT far for a dragon.

Assuming that the Alys Rivers leak was part of the official script, doesn’t Daemon take Harrenhal after B&C? Unless he and Rhaenyra have a different blow-out before then (perhaps she blames him for pushing her into the war?)

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

18 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

We don't know but from the number they gave us long ago, the consensus was that we will see all the dragons except Morghul, Shrykos and Stormcloud.

Speaking of which, there is a theory that the song Daemon sings to Vermithor is part of a dragon bonding ritual that was used in old Valyria, and gives the rider complete control over the dragon. Which the Westerosi valyrians seemingly never managed to achieve.

[The Dragon Demands]

Unsure. May have been test dialogue.

Long story short though: even the spy community really doesn't know what end point is being used for episode 8. I doubt it's the fall of KL or the full Battle of the Gullet.

Edited September 30, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[The Dragon Demands]

While I'm here on the day after wrap on principle photography, these are the Season 2 cast so far:

At Harrenhal:

• Gayle Rankin - Alys Rivers (officially announced)
• Simon Russell Beale - Ser Simon Strong (officially announced)

Blacks:

• Tom Taylor - Cregan Stark
• Tom Lorcan - "Stark Captain"
• Amanda Collin - Jeyne Arryn
• Thomas Jackson - Vale sherpa
• (underage actor I can't share) - Oscar Tully
• John Paul Hurley - Lord Darry
• Anna Francolini - Lady Mallister
• Steven Pacey - Lord Gunthor Darklyn

Greens:

• Freddie Fox - Ser Gwayne Hightower
• Tom Cawte - Criston Cole's squire
• Barney Fishwick - Ser Martin Reyne
• Tok Stephen - Eddard Waters
• Ralph Davis - Leon Estermont
• Daniel Fathers - Lord Humfrey Lefford
• Eddie Eyrie (who played Gerold Hightower in GoT) - a Green commander? Name unknown
• Bill Best as "Tyroshi pirate"
• Milos Bindas as "Triarchy pirate"

Dragonseeds:

• Kieran Bew - Hugh Hammer
• Tom Bennett or Leon Ockenden - Ulf the White
• Abubakar Salim - Alyn of Hull (officially confirmed)
• Clinton Liberty - Addam of Hull
• Robert Rhodes - Silver Denys
• Pablo LeRocq - "Dragonseed"

Smallfolk: 

• Sam C. Wilson - Blood
• Mark Stobbart - Cheese
• Scroobius Pip - Jaehaerys' funeral procession herald
• James Doherty - Cley
• Sarah Woodard - Lady Serena
• Tracey-Anne Liles - goodwife
• Ted Reilly - crofter
• Dritan Kastrati - Dornish merchant
• Graeme Dalling - Shipbreaker Bay fisherman
• Martina Laird - POSSIBLY playing Marilda of Hull

UNCONFIRMED:

• Sara Snow - we're not even sure if she's in the show, but suspect Erica Ford or Rafiella Chapman
• ANY other Stark bannermen such as Roderick Dustin
• ANY other Vale vassals, such as Jess Redfort
• ANY of the Blackwoods (their army is at Harrenhal but we have no actors yet)
• Nettles - spy photos showed TWO black women among the dragonseeds, couldn't ID the actresses
• Daeron Targaryen - they said he's in Season 2. We SUSPECT Jack Cunningham-Nuttall.
• ANY OTHER HIghtowers or Reach vassals who would logically be part of Daeron's storyline.
• We don't think Johanna Westerling-Lannister or Dalton Greyjoy are on-screen in Season 2.

Thus the top 4 "head turners" we're still waiting for, major characters, are Daeron Targaryen, Nettles, Sara Snow, and Jess Redfort. And in particular, we don't even have RUMORS for Nettles or Redfort (well, spy photos of Nettles we couldn't identify).

Edit: Ah, Redanian Intelligence just posted a summary article of confirmed castings - including all the ones who we know joined the cast but we don't know who they are playing (also doesn't include the Daeron speculation I put in here). Many of these will probably be minor bannermen etc.

https://redanianintelligence.com/2023/09/30/every-new-cast-member-house-of-the-dragon-season-2/

Edited September 30, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[The Bard of Banefort]

Waiting until so late to introduce Daeron is such a bizarre decision. It’s already a bit slapstick for there to randomly be another son who was never mentioned; the later he’s introduced, the worse it will be.

I could see them changing Helaena’s death to her commuting suicide after discovering that she’s pregnant with Maelor because she doesn’t want to bring another child into this mess (ala Michael’s wife in The Godfather). I think they would really be bludgeoning us with the childbirth-is-worse-than-death motif, but I wouldn’t surprised if that was the route they took. I already expect her to choose to spare Jaehaerys over Jaehaera because he’s the boy (and therefore the heir). That said, I hope I’m wrong about both.

I think we got the first S1 trailer in October 2021, so it’s not inconceivable that we might get one for S2 soon-ish. Teaser trailers are usually just a handful of unrelated shots with a voiceover.
 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by The Bard of Banefort

[The Dragon Demands]

URGENT:

New leaks that Jack Cunningham-Nuttall is not Daeron the Daring…and in fact, Daeron might not appear until season 3

 

Updates as I get them

Edited October 2, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

URGENT:

New leaks that Jack Cunningham-Nuttall is not Daeron the Daring…and in fact, Daeron might not appear until season 3

 

Updates as I get them

Maybe they plan on changing Daeron’s story and making him a dragonseed? Or some random Targ cousin? We need more leaks.

Edited October 2, 2023 by The Bard of Banefort

[$erPounce]

We thought Jack Cunningham-Nuttal was playing as Daeron, considering he follows actors Olivia, Fabien and Leo Ashton on Instagram as well as the image of a plush of Tessarion that he posted. But now there are doubts. A friend of the actor says it is not true. It is possible that Daeron will be played by another actor or will not appear until season 3. It is certain, however, that he will be mentioned in season 2:

 

Where is Alicent’s fourth child Daeron? This is something that a lot of fans have been wondering. Why has no one even mentioned him at this point?

Ryan Condal: He does exist. No worries, everybody. He’s the youngest son. He’s warded off at Oldtown to Hobert Hightower and soon to Ormond Hightower, who is Hobert’s nephew, who becomes Lord of Oldtown. Honestly, this stuff happened all the time in this world. It’s not our modern day where if you had a 6-year-old, you would FaceTime them every day and see how they’re doing and write letters. He’s there. That’s the fact. When he is relevant to be mentioned — and he will be — he will be mentioned.

 

Perhaps Jack Cunningham-Nuttal was just trying to troll us fans, just like Lena Headey's tease of Lady Stoneheart and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's tease of Rolly Duckfield years back. Both characters never appeared in Game of Thrones.

(By the looks of it, this news was already posted, I didn't see that)

Edited October 2, 2023 by $erPounce