What Will Happen in the Riverlands in TWoW?

[YeniAy_Ottoman]

Hi, Selam!

As you know, there will be chaos in the riverlands in the next book. At the center of this mix are LSH, the Brotherhood, and Jaime.

Now, let's draw a general skeleton about the events that will happen in this land in the 6th book. At least what I could predict.

Prologue

We know we'll be seeing Robb's wife in the opening POV, meaning this POV most likely it's about the journey to the Westerlands. We know that prologues are often linked to some other event later in the book, and that the owner of the prologue pov must die.

I'm not sure who will own the POV, but my candidates are four: Edmure Tully, Jeyne Westerling, Sybell Westerling, and Ser Forley Prester.

These four, accompanied by soldiers, head to Castery Rock and increase the number of escorts at the last moment as Jaime fears Blackfish will attack.

I think Jaime is right, Blackfish will attack and the Brotherhood will be on his side. This will be an operation to save Edmure and Jeyne. However, Jaime ordered Ser Prester to kill Edmure and Jeyne if they tried to escape. If either of these two are to die, the prologue is might be Edmure or Jeyne. Of course, Ser Prester could die in this attack after surviving all those wars, it's hard to say for sure. Therefore, we might read through his eyes. My personal opinion is that we will probably read it through the eyes of Ser Prester.

After all, we can't expect this prologue pov to be just a casual travel chapter with nothing major going on. It will be an attack.

Prisoners of the Freys

Jaime demanded something else from the Freys. That lords like Umber be given to the Lannister soldiers so that they will be taken to the crown lands.

In fact, Edmure and the captive lords have a very important point in the story. These are the lords who knew Robb's will and signed it as a witness. So the people who know that Jon Snow is the king of the north and the trident, and they're all alive; They are either hiding or captive. Who are they?

Great Jon Umber, Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Edmure Tully and Jason Mall.

Mormont and Glover's location is clear(at least we assume they are with Lord Reed), what about the others? They are prisoners of the Freys in the south. If you notice, Martin did not kill any of the lords who knew who Jon was, kept them alive. Moreover, two of them are riverlands lords; Tully and Mallister. So we always call Jon is future king of the north, but he is actually the King of the North and the Trident. Naturally, when he takes the throne, he will have two of the 7 kingdoms.

Jaime captured Riverrun and gave it to his uncle and aunt; Our overlord is Littlefinger. Before this event, Jaime orders all the captives, including Edmure, to be given to him; they will be sent either to King's Landing or to the Rock. So lords are led out of Walder's cage, giving them a very good opportunity to be rescued, right? Does it have infrastructure? I think there is.

Presumably after Edmure, or perhaps simultaneously, an attack will be made to save both sides.

Tom from the Brotherhood

As you know, Jaime had the Riverrun problem as well as the Brotherhood problem, these people are still moving in the riverlands with Cat. Of course, everyone needs information at some point, who can do it the easiest at that time? Singers! One of the men of the Brotherhood, which we knew in Arya POVs; Tom of the Sevens steps in and hangs around with Jaime. He is acquainted with all this information; captives will be taken out and sent to the Lannisters; We know that Walder's heir, Ryman Frey, was also send by Jaime, and Tom was there again, he knows this information, which he immediately spreads to his friends and Ryman is killed as well. This is how Cat gets Robb's crown anyway.

What does Jaime do next? He takes Tom and goes to Edmure, his purpose is clear; He threaten to Edmure and claim he will to take Riverrun with blood and he wants Tom to play the certain song. Jaime lists his threats and tells him to persuade Blackfish, leaving him alone with Tom and the song. Edmure knew the man, of course. He was convinced. As we saw in the next POV of Jaime, the Blackfish escaped and the castle was surrendered.

I think everyone knows it's Tom's plan with the Brotherhood, rather than Jaime's threats that convinced Edmure here. Of course we don't know the plan and we just assume so but let's be realistic; You have to give him a good reason for the Blackfish to leave that castle, or we can't claim that an old man is afraid of death. It has been talked about for years where he went too, but the answer is of course very simple; He must have gone to the Brotherhood, because that was Tom's plan.

So Edmure and Blackfish easily surrendered Riverrun because they knew they could take it back later. Moreover, let me remind you that Tom is staying at Riverrun. In other words, we have a trojan horse in the castle. He even said that he was sad when he learned that Jaime will not stay, I believe he was sincere, but for other reasons.
 

• The Plan of Brotherhood

Black Walder tracks down the Brotherhood north of Hag's Mire and loses them again on the Neck side. Walder had sworn they were no more than half a day's away, so they were pretty close, and Walder had lost track of them in an instant, so maybe they took refuge with Reed's people. Or something like that didn't happen and they're just hiding in the Hag's Mire, which I think is like that. Robb and Cat had come to this Hag's Mire and surrounding areas before, even convening their last council here and writing his will, accompanied by witnesses.

As a result, the Brotherhood is in full swing and has a plan that take back Riverrun - for now; Tom remained like a trojan horse in Riverrun; The Lannisters have demanded that all the hostages captured at the Red Wedding be sent to them, and Jaime is on his way to Cat's trap with Brienne.

So what do we expect to happen in the next book?

Red Wedding Vol 2

According to my friend's theory, Cat will use Jaime to get revenge on the Freys. So they will use Jaime to infiltrate and kill the Freys, as one of my favorite Lannisters, Devan Lannister, was expected to marry a Frey girl; there will probably be a 2nd Red Wedding in the Twins. Sending his greetings to the Starks at the first wedding, Jaime will also this time help the Wedding take place - even if he doesn't want to.

Of course, the following may also be wondered; How will Jaime be persuaded? Let's be real, no one likes the Freys, so it shouldn't be a big deal for Jaime, but the Frey's death is not enough, after all, an incentive is needed. The Payne boy was used by LSH to to persuade Brienne to lure Jaime into a trap; probably Brienne will be used for Jaime as well. So if they threaten to kill her, Jaime surrenders; If they offer a choice between Frey or Brienne, the choice is obvious.

TLDR: To summarize; Blackfish surrendered the castle according to the Brotherhood's plan because he knew he could retake it later. Tom told them about the plan. He remained a trojan horse in Tom Riverrun castle. The Brotherhood will attack to save both the northern lords and Edmure, in the prologue we'll read Edmure/Jeyne's rescue. Then the recapture of the Riverrun castle will take place. The finale in the riverlands will be the 2nd red wedding, with Devan Lannister marrying the Frey girl at the Twins. Jaime will have to help them get into the castle. This is how LSH will avenge his son.

Of course, other events can be expected besides the ones I can foresee. For example, GRRM said that LF is the overlord of the riverlands and is going to get in trouble, we can see him here too. After this statement, we should at least wait to see.

BONUS:

Quote

 

My response to those who think Jaime wouldn't want to take part in a move against Devan.

Maybe you're right, he may not want to help her with this. Maybe he'll accept help in exchange for Devan's life spared. If we are talking about a 2nd Red Wedding, it is possible to see parallels.

Walder did not kill Edmure and held him captive. The massacre happened on the wedding night. Walder's main goal was to kill Robb. If you notice, the other great northern lords were not killed and they had no intention of killing Cat from the very beginning, but after her final state they killed her with strange mercy.

So I think she can easily reassure Jaime about Devan since Cat's main target will be Walder and his people. Of course, I think LSH is unreliable, but Jaime can trust that word. This is basically a possible scenario.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

What will happen? Justice.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

But for real, I hope the first POV is Sybil, watching the vicious bitch die will bring me so much satisfaction. But of all your candidates, Prester seems the most likely. 
 

The RW 2.0 will be one of the almost satisfying yet sickening things we’ll read. I imagine it’ll start off with readers cheering, and it’ll get so gruesome we’ll wonder if it went too far.

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

But for real, I hope the first POV is Sybil, watching the vicious bitch die will bring me so much satisfaction. 

  Heck yes it will.  

1 hour ago, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

Hi, Selam!

Prisoners of the Freys

Great Jon Umber, Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Edmure Tully and Jason Mall.

Mormont and Glover's location is clear(at least we assume they are with Lord Reed), what about the others? They are prisoners of the Freys in the south. 

Tom from the Brotherhood

Moreover, let me remind you that Tom is staying at Riverrun. In other words, we have a trojan horse in the castle. 

• The Plan of Brotherhood

So what do we expect to happen in the next book?

Red Wedding Vol 2

TLDR: To summarize; Blackfish surrendered the castle according to the Brotherhood's plan because he knew he could retake it later. Tom told them about the plan. He remained a trojan horse in Tom Riverrun castle. The Brotherhood will attack to save both the northern lords and Edmure, in the prologue we'll read Edmure/Jeyne's rescue. Then the recapture of the Riverrun castle will take place. The finale in the riverlands will be the 2nd red wedding, with Devan Lannister marrying the Frey girl at the Twins. Jaime will have to help them get into the castle. This is how LSH will avenge his son.

Of course, other events can be expected besides the ones I can foresee. For example, GRRM said that LF is the overlord of the riverlands and is going to get in trouble, we can see him here too. After this statement, we should at least wait to see.

Thank you for reading.

 

The Riverlands are great, so much going on in so many directions.  I agree with nearly all of it as a reader with no bias, I think.  Most of what you've described is possible, maybe predictable given the information we have.  Still, there are nuances--fun rabbit holes to go through with so many scenarios in The Riverlands.  I imagine what awaits us will be a lot more horror than world building.  I get the feeling some of this will happen and there will be unanticipated consequences.   I have wondered if frickin Littlefinger would ever have his attention turned to events in The Riverlands, his official seat.  What does he think is happening at Harrenhal?  Haven't read a lot on that so it was fun to churn up.   I don't expect George RR Martin to become predictable so while these things look right and fit some, there are things we haven't yet seen coming.  It would be fun to go back and see what people were writing before ADWD finally published.  What happened that no one guessed?  Misunderstood? Got totally right, nearly perfectly right?  Just makes it fun to try to figure all the connections out.  

Littlefinger?  Maybe.  The Vale story line would have to suddenly resolve.  He's hosting the political event of the generation.  This Winged Knights appointment is a big deal.  Sansa appears to be courting disaster.  Mostly there is a tournament.  Tournaments tend to leave a lot of clues and information about.  He cannot get to the Riverlands in time to affect anything.  I can see this coming later in the story, but not within the next week or so as story days go.  It would be cool to cite the quote as I would like to read the whole thing in context.  Don't think I have seen that one before.  Let's pull it all apart.

 

[Nevets]

Prologue.  Prologue POVs don't always die.  Chett, the ASOS prologue POV, was still alive at the end of the chapter, so he did die later in the book.  A rescue attempt is a possibility, but given the lack of time to prepare, and the size of Prester's force, I can't imagine it being a success.

I think the prologue may be their arrival at Casterly Rock.  We can get an update on events and a look at Casterly Rock, and meet Martyn Lannister and whoever else might be around.

Frey prisoners.  I think they might be keeping Jaime around to free the prisoners from the Red Wedding.  I don't know why else he wouldn't have shown up dead by now.  He can simply show up with a bunch of men and say he's there to take custody and hand them over.  Might even work, though I have a suspicion Jaime's story may be nearing it's end.

Red Wedding 2.  I'm unhappily thinking this will happen.  Jaime won't participate though.  No way is he going against his family, threats to Brienne or anyone else notwithstanding.  Oi am skeptical about it's chances of success.  Yes, they have Tom but I think most of the Riverrun staff is anti-Lannister, something Daven will be well aware of.  Security will be insanely tight.  Daven is no fool, and neither is Genna Lannister, who's actually in charge at Riverrun.  I sense a disaster in the making, and no one is going to be happy.

Littlefinger.  The Riverlands are effectively a warzone.  They're economically devastated with an active insurgency.  No way is Littlefinger interested in dealing with that morass.  Too much responsibility with too little reward.  He'll be happy to hang out in the Vale and try to work his magic there.  

Unfortunately for him, I expect Sansa to figure out that they're not on the same page, or even reading the same book.  At that point, Littlefinger is likely to find himself in trouble.  I don't see either Littlefinger or Sansa getting involved with the Riverlands.  Way too much trouble for Littlefinger, and Sansa has shown no interest in the place and has no close connection to it.  Her story is a Northern one.  It's her home, where she spent most of her life, happily.

[SeanF]

13 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

But for real, I hope the first POV is Sybil, watching the vicious bitch die will bring me so much satisfaction. But of all your candidates, Prester seems the most likely. 
 

The RW 2.0 will be one of the almost satisfying yet sickening things we’ll read. I imagine it’ll start off with readers cheering, and it’ll get so gruesome we’ll wonder if it went too far.

Sybell Spicer is long overdue a burning at the stake.  With Jeyne setting it alight.

I think she’s one of the vilest characters in the tale.

[YeniAy_Ottoman]

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

Prologue.  Prologue POVs don't always die.  Chett, the ASOS prologue POV, was still alive at the end of the chapter, so he did die later in the book.  A rescue attempt is a possibility, but given the lack of time to prepare, and the size of Prester's force, I can't imagine it being a success.

I think the prologue may be their arrival at Casterly Rock.  We can get an update on events and a look at Casterly Rock, and meet Martyn Lannister and whoever else might be around.

Frey prisoners.  I think they might be keeping Jaime around to free the prisoners from the Red Wedding.  I don't know why else he wouldn't have shown up dead by now.  He can simply show up with a bunch of men and say he's there to take custody and hand them over.  Might even work, though I have a suspicion Jaime's story may be nearing it's end.

Red Wedding 2.  I'm unhappily thinking this will happen.  Jaime won't participate though.  No way is he going against his family, threats to Brienne or anyone else notwithstanding.  Oi am skeptical about it's chances of success.  Yes, they have Tom but I think most of the Riverrun staff is anti-Lannister, something Daven will be well aware of.  Security will be insanely tight.  Daven is no fool, and neither is Genna Lannister, who's actually in charge at Riverrun.  I sense a disaster in the making, and no one is going to be happy.

Littlefinger.  The Riverlands are effectively a warzone.  They're economically devastated with an active insurgency.  No way is Littlefinger interested in dealing with that morass.  Too much responsibility with too little reward.  He'll be happy to hang out in the Vale and try to work his magic there.  

Unfortunately for him, I expect Sansa to figure out that they're not on the same page, or even reading the same book.  At that point, Littlefinger is likely to find himself in trouble.  I don't see either Littlefinger or Sansa getting involved with the Riverlands.  Way too much trouble for Littlefinger, and Sansa has shown no interest in the place and has no close connection to it.  Her story is a Northern one.  It's her home, where she spent most of her life, happily.

The opening and closing povs all die, Chett dying after one or two povs doesn't change the pattern. I have it in my head that GRRM also confirmed this, but I honestly don't remember the source, so maybe I'm misremembering this "confirmation" point.

I have full confidence that Jaime will be alive until the last book, even Martin said that Cersei has her story continues in the last two books; he wouldn't kill Jaime early, especially if Jaime is really valonqar, a character who hasn't completed his transformation yet. No, Jaime is not at the end of his story, he is still in the middle.

I don't think there is any obstacle for Jaime to go against his own family. Tywin is dead, Tyrion scandal etc. His relationship with Cersei is terrible. He always choose to help Cersei but now, he refused. This is a big thing for him. For Jaime, it's actually a bit ironic... because in the beginning, Jaime always stood by his family and when he had to choose, his family was his choice. So Jaime always found himself in a situation where he had to make choices between his family and "what's right" but now his choices are starting to change, slowly... any other time he would have captured Sansa and given her to Cersei but now he's made it a priority to keep his oath. He will start to make choices against his family because his oaths/duties come first. Of course, this is for the future, the Red Wedding 2 issue in the current topic is not about honor. It's about making a choice for Brienne... but I think that's a very important step because for the first time he would have chosen someone else against his family. So, I don't know if the theory is correct, but it's potentially possible, not impossible.

I don't think you've approached the LF issue correctly. First of all, Martin said that LF will have problems here, so LF will have things to deal with. You can't expect him to sit in the Vale not caring about anything. LF wants power, he wants to move up... he uses things as stepping stones for that. Being Lord of Harrenhall elevated him in the aristocracy, otherwise he wouldn't have married Lysa. He is not only the Lord of Harrenhall, he is also the supreme lord of the river lands. All the river lands belong to him, and you think he's going to throw it away? He's not stupid, even the stupidest person wouldn't choose that option. LF even needs this title just to maintain his influence in the Vale, otherwise they will simply send him away.

Sansa has nothing to do with the north, let's be honest... she's just a girl who wants to go home, but other than that she has nothing to do/story with the north. Even Arya is far away but her name is still somehow involved in stories about the north, moreover it influences Stannis' story. Did Sansa or Arya have anything to do with the river lands in the first place? Or with the Vale? But they both had a story here, they both found their way here, and even though they both wanted to go home, they still couldn't go home because their story here is not complete. If LF is going to come here, and he has to, when there's a problem, Sansa will come here too. There are two reasons for that; LF will never leave this girl alone and without Sansa we cannot see LF's actions.

[Curled Finger]

4 hours ago, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

Sansa has nothing to do with the north, let's be honest... she's just a girl who wants to go home, but other than that she has nothing to do/story with the north. Even Arya is far away but her name is still somehow involved in stories about the north, moreover it influences Stannis' story. Did Sansa or Arya have anything to do with the river lands in the first place? Or with the Vale? But they both had a story here, they both found their way here, and even though they both wanted to go home, they still couldn't go home because their story here is not complete. If LF is going to come here, and he has to, when there's a problem, Sansa will come here too. There are two reasons for that; LF will never leave this girl alone and without Sansa we cannot see LF's actions.

Littlefinger left Sansa when he went to arrange or attend a wedding.  That's when he comes back and tells her about his plans and she meets his henchmen.  He would leave Sansa alone.  He appears to be buying into her Alayne act or he simply underestimates her.  

The Riverlands has never quit being a problem.  Lannisters and Freys are intermarrying all over the place, Bonifer Hastings and his Holy Hundred have taken up residence at Harrenhal and there seems to be a serial killer on the loose hanging Freys.  LF hasn't said or done a thing about any of it.  Seems to me he would at least be concerned with events at Riverrun, but even that doesn't come up.  

The Vale has Littlefinger's attention, not the Riverlands.  Harrenhal was simply his path to marrying Lysa for control of the Vale.  It was always his intention to marry Lysa once he's given a lordship.  He has never, not once, expressed an interest in his position in the Riverlands after he was given Harrenhal.  He has a plan that focuses on people in the Vale.  If there is a plan for the Riverlands we haven't seen it from Littlefinger.  

[SilverGhost]

In general -- an epic body count of Freys. 

More specifically - Edmure Tully gets saved by the Blackfish, Jeyne is not and ends up back in the Westerlands with her parents. BwB launch an surprise attack on Riverrun during a wedding or feast and eliminate a lot of Freys and a few Lannisters/Lannister Bannermen. The rest of the Riverlords rally behind Edmure and Blackfish, an echo of how the Tullys were the first family to support Aegon and rebel against Harren the Black. 

Littlefinger starts trying to deal with the Tully revolt but Arya arrives back in Westeros and heads to the Vale to help her sister (maybe tipped off by Bran via a dream). Arya and Sansa out play Littlefinger, Littlefinger is killed by either them, Stoneheart or Blackfish for the betrayal of Ned/the Murder of Lysa. Arya and Sansa mercy kill Stoneheart. 

Of course my success rate with predictions is just a bit above 0 so I make no promises. 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Lots of blood and hangings. Frey season will be officially open, once Lady Stoneheart and the Brotherhood without Banners pull off the Red Wedding 2.00 and/or that the hostages given to the Lannisters by the Freys after the Red Wedding are freed.

[astarkchoice]

The red wedding  2.0 wont go to plan but it wont matter..the giant wolfpack will be drawn to.the sounds of slaughter.and the freys b.s story about the 1st red wedding will come true