Jon’s Deception and It’s Consequences

[Curled Finger]

8 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Or she knows that Shireen is in her pocket. (Or that she knows it's all bullshit like the leeches)

If Mel knows then she allowed it which would probably mean that she thinks Crasters baby has kb too.

But I think they're gonna talk it out and somehow arrive on amicable ground. And then Danys gonna pull up and be like, Azor Awho?

My money would be on a sure thing with Shireen and Seylse's adamant favor.  Gilly's babe?  Does Mel know the tale?  Of course she knows the tale of Sam the Slayer and the curious circumstances of little monster's birth.  *Shudder* But why jump straight to kingsblood?  What about being a sacrifice equals kingsblood? 

Ah, Jon-Stannis bromance.  I forgot.  It will be difficult for Stannis to deny Jon's awesomeness with that light and fire streaming from his chest, probably hair, too.  But it's Stannis, Man, he has to bitch some.  He will at least be snide about it or it would not be Stannis who is no man's servant.  This would be fun to read.  Dany rolling up with 3 dragons?  Well I guess we see how Stannis dies then.  Jon is described as so plain and we know Dany likes hot young dudes.   Hoping the streaming fire light makes him more attractive to her.  Where can he get some tattoos to match his cool scars?  Maybe his eyes will turn purple?  I worry for this kid.   

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

All 100% true and right my friend.  Still, I am hoping that in the immediate reading of events at the Wall that happen to coincide with speculation in this topic that Selyse does get squashed or cross bowed or just run through.  An avid fan can hope!  Do you think it has legs at all?  She doesn't even know Stannis is dead yet.  What do you think it will do to her faith in R'hllor learning AAR is dead?  Will she more fervently turn to Melisandre and her mad faith?  Will she turn from it as people sometimes do in the face of great loss?  Will she cling to Shireen and try to get away?  There could be some good story here with Selyse!

I agree!! I think she's such an interesting character. And no matter how much she drinks the kool-aid (or inhales the fumes) I can't see her being willing to burn Shireen.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

But basically I think it's all gonna come down to corny. There's a little Azor Ahai in all of us and if humanity works together we can overcome ice zombies or whatever. Which I think is a nice message 

Look at you going all Hallmark 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Ser Arthurs Dawn

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I agree!! I think she's such an interesting character. And no matter how much she drinks the kool-aid (or inhales the fumes) I can't see her being willing to burn Shireen.

Yep.  But I can see Martin being willing to burn a little girl.  He will do it if he really has his mind set on it and it will be horrible regardless how it happens.  The idea of a parent killing their own child is so terrible.  He's been telling us about it all along with Tyrion and babies being thrown down wells as happenstance.  We don't really know much about Selyse.  We get what he wants us to see.  I don't want to see a parent willingly murder a child.  This is where my blood lust stems from.  

[Hugorfonics]

14 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

My money would be on a sure thing with Shireen and Seylse's adamant favor.  Gilly's babe?  Does Mel know the tale?  Of course she knows the tale of Sam the Slayer and the curious circumstances of little monster's birth.  *Shudder* But why jump straight to kingsblood?  What about being a sacrifice equals kingsblood? 

I don't think Mel knows. Because if she did know and approved then I don't see why the cloak and dagger, just send out both kids. But I really don't think Mel knew and stood powerless on the sidelines so I guess then my answer would be Crasters blood is Stark blood/Targaryen blood or whatever nonsense which I don't really believe either.

 

18 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Ah, Jon-Stannis bromance.  I forgot.  It will be difficult for Stannis to deny Jon's awesomeness with that light and fire streaming from his chest, probably hair, too.  But it's Stannis, Man, he has to bitch some.  He will at least be snide about it or it would not be Stannis who is no man's servant.  This would be fun to read.  Dany rolling up with 3 dragons?  Well I guess we see how Stannis dies then.  Jon is described as so plain and we know Dany likes hot young dudes.   Hoping the streaming fire light makes him more attractive to her.  Where can he get some tattoos to match his cool scars?  Maybe his eyes will turn purple?  I worry for this kid

Yea. Chest, hair, chesthair. His knee will just naturally bend. Or maybe his army of crow wildlings and Stannis' entire army will politely ask him. In the name of Targaryen.

I think the eagles scars, and glowing chesthair should be enough to detract him from his general Starkness. But if it's ink she's looking for, then Jorahs back. With tattoos, just saying.

I'd think (hope, gods i hope) that purple eyes will be like, making out with her brother which, judging from Viserys nipple play and promises of horse orgies, I'd just think making out with her brother would be gross, grosser, like even Cersei would find it gross

[LongRider]

54 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

All 100% true and right my friend.  Still, I am hoping that in the immediate reading of events at the Wall that happen to coincide with speculation in this topic that Selyse does get squashed or cross bowed or just run through.

Jon was so not looking forward to dealing with Selyse that he ran into a couple of knives instead!  Perhaps Wun Wun will smash Selyse too!  Perhaps Mel will burst into flame!  Perhaps LongRider will stop overusing the exclamation point key!  (no chance of that!)

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Ok but I would love to see like 3 different people all claiming to be AA. It would be hilarious. And then the fans will flight about it too.

Think of all the new Youtube and Tiktok channels!

[Curled Finger]

Just now, LongRider said:

Jon was so not looking forward to dealing with Selyse that he ran into a couple of knives instead!  Perhaps Wun Wun will smash Selyse too!  Perhaps Mel will burst into flame!  Perhaps LongRider will stop overusing the exclamation point key!  (no chance of that!)

!!!

That's pretty good.  He was on his way to deliver the news to Selyse!  

Exclamation points let you know you are still alive and excited about things.  Never cease overusing them! 

[LongRider]

I'm in no hurry to have Shireen burned or anyone stabbed in the belly with a sword for being AA.  However, why does no one discuss Petyr Baelish?  He has a scar on his belly already, he could and probably is, Azor Ahai several times over.  No need to start over from scratch, it takes years to get the sword right to just be able to thrust it in someone's belly.  We don't have time to wait for another book.  Littlefing is really Azor Ahai will be my first TikTok video.  I'll let you all know when it is ready!!!!!

[Quoth the raven,]

5 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

As we are all no doubt aware, Jon, I believe in ADWD, forces Sam & Gilly to take Mance’s baby with them to the Citadel, and leave Gilly’s behind at the Wall. He does so, knowing that Melisandre was looking to burn king’s blood, and with Mance’s child out of reach will keep that from happening.

Its been awhile since I’ve read ADWD, but I believe that, however cruel this was, he did it knowing that no harm will come to Gilly’s child. As he has no king’s blood so there is no point of burning him, as far as Jon thinks, for Melisandre.

 

Do you think that deception, may be the catalyst for Shireen’s burning? Mel will go for Mance’s child, but find out that Jon switched them, so she’ll be forced to go to Shireen.

There is a big problem with the plan.  Gilly's child is in danger.  What if the witch sacrifices the boy without asking Jon first?  This decision once again proves Jon's biased and emotional way of making decisions.  He liked Mance and didn't like Craster.  Therefore he valued one life more than the other.  Based on how he felt about their fathers.  Jon had no business commanding and even less ruling the Watch. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

3 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said:

There is a big problem with the plan.  Gilly's child is in danger.  What if the witch sacrifices the boy without asking Jon first?  This decision once again proves Jon's biased and emotional way of making decisions.  He liked Mance and didn't like Craster.  Therefore he valued one life more than the other.  Based on how he felt about their fathers.  Jon had no business commanding and even less ruling the Watch. 

Making a lot of assumptions lol. Jon has successes that you neglect to mention. And Daenerys has failures that you neglect to mention. Successfully bringing the Wildlings over, and garrisoning the wall. Making deals with Iron Bank to get supplies for the Wall.

Just as Daenerys succeeds in freeing the slaves, and taking the cities. Where she fails to control them, her freemen sell themselves due to her failure to provide for them, she undermines herself by openly admitting she is bluffing. Daenerys was successful at conquering, but an utter failure at ruling.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

6 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said:

There is a big problem with the plan.  Gilly's child is in danger.  What if the witch sacrifices the boy without asking Jon first?  This decision once again proves Jon's biased and emotional way of making decisions.  He liked Mance and didn't like Craster.  Therefore he valued one life more than the other.  Based on how he felt about their fathers.  Jon had no business commanding and even less ruling the Watch. 

On the note of Gilly’s child, he assumed that he would be alive if anything happened. And that’d he’d be able to handle it should the need arise. And I’m pretty sure he isn’t the only one who knows about the child, but that’s me making an assumption as I can’t recall who, if anyone else does.

[LongRider]

dupe

Edited June 7, 2023 by LongRider

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

On the note of Gilly’s child, he assumed that he would be alive if anything happened. And that’d he’d be able to handle it should the need arise. And I’m pretty sure he isn’t the only one who knows about the child, but that’s me making an assumption as I can’t recall who, if anyone else does.

Val knows, she calls him "Monster" for various reasons, one is that wildings don't name their babies until they are two years old.  

[Hippocras]

The way I see it, Mel refuses to see that Jon is special, in large part because of the lie about who he is. So the burning may be an attempt to revive Stannis and finally get her stone dragons, but instead burning Shireen, and Jon's body in the pyre with her may well be what brings back Jon. Just like Dany, surviving the fire will make it no longer possible to ignore that he is special to her Red God.

[Curled Finger]

3 hours ago, Hippocras said:

The way I see it, Mel refuses to see that Jon is special, in large part because of the lie about who he is. So the burning may be an attempt to revive Stannis and finally get her stone dragons, but instead burning Shireen, and Jon's body in the pyre with her may well be what brings back Jon. Just like Dany, surviving the fire will make it no longer possible to ignore that he is special to her Red God.

That makes a lot more sense to me that trying to bring Jon around.   I hope she gets a glimpse of Stannis alive in the flames marching on Winterfell or something.  I get the feeling Jon's identity needs to remain hidden for a while longer yet.  Rickon hasn't even returned yet.  There is a lot of Stark in Winterfell storyline to play out yet before Targaryen supremacy and princes who were promised need to loom large in the north yet.  

[Hippocras]

17 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

That makes a lot more sense to me that trying to bring Jon around.   I hope she gets a glimpse of Stannis alive in the flames marching on Winterfell or something.  I get the feeling Jon's identity needs to remain hidden for a while longer yet.  Rickon hasn't even returned yet.  There is a lot of Stark in Winterfell storyline to play out yet before Targaryen supremacy and princes who were promised need to loom large in the north yet.  

Well I don't think it would happen right away. Jon's body is probably going to be in the ice cells while the Watch has a little civil war. Jon will spend at least a few weeks as Ghost.

[Curled Finger]

3 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

Well I don't think it would happen right away. Jon's body is probably going to be in the ice cells while the Watch has a little civil war. Jon will spend at least a few weeks as Ghost.

Can't wait to read all of it!!!  Except the Ghost chapters...always hard for me to interpret what the wolves actually see...

[Corvo the Crow]

On 6/7/2023 at 5:30 PM, Hippocras said:

Well I don't think it would happen right away. Jon's body is probably going to be in the ice cells while the Watch has a little civil war. Jon will spend at least a few weeks as Ghost.

I feel he may do some Branning on Borroq. Why introduce him and mention him several times if he isn’t going to be important? Unlike Varamyr’s and Bran’s targets, Borroq who is himself a skinchanger wouldn’t be terrified of it and in fact would be willing in accepting Jon. We already saw two skinchangers inhabiting one body in the case of Orell remaining in his eagle and Varamyr skinchanging into it.

[James West]

It's unfair to Gillie and her biological child.  The plan came from a bonehead and that is why it will lead to the suffering of an innocent.  The poor biological son of Gilly's will suffer the consequences of what Jon chose to do.