Which allies and followers Sansa will find ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

For now Sansa Stark is still hiding under the name of Alayne Stone, and learning the ways of politics under Petyr Baelish aka Littlefinger in the Vale, but in due time she will eventually turn into a true political player with her intelligence, observation skills and the political lessons LF has taught to her. And once that happens, she will need to have her own allies and supporters that are loyal to her or indebted to her and who will serve and help her and House Stark interests instead of Baelish's. 

Who do you think you could see her turning into her ally, in the Vale, North and/or the Riverlands ? Which allies and followers do you think that Sansa will make as she turns into her own political player once she's done being Littlefinger's asset ?

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

I think Sansa may actually become the most individually formidable and successful of her siblings. I personally think she will marry Harrold Hardying, and he’ll die, be murdered by LF(or Sansa), or become her doormat. Sansa will become the power in the Vale, and she’ll be the one that brings Littlefinger down. 
 

So in short, I think the Vale will be behind her. Almost entirely if not completely. I don’t think it’s an accident that the Vale has really done nothing this entire series.

[LongRider]

Mya Stone will be an ally I think, plus, hopefully Sandor Clegane will come back into the story and become her trusted top dog.   Harry will be doomed in the tourney and doubtful that he will marry Sansa.  Agree that Vale will be behind her and want to do away with Littlefinger.  

[Nevets]

Given how much she knows, Myranda Royce will be essential to get on Sansa's side.  Harrold Hardyng is I think a red herring, and a redshirt.  He's doomed.

In order to take on LF she is going to need to get Yohn Royce on her side.  He's the big pooh-bah in the Vale.  She gets him, others will follow.  How she gets to him I don't know.

I think she eventually ends up going North.  She will need to get the Manderlys on her side if she does.  I believe Wylis, son of Wyman and father of Wylla, is in charge.  Wylla is a well-known Stark fan, so Sansa might start with her.

If she can get Yohn Royce and Wylis Manderly on her side, she has it made.  If they oppose her, she's toast, but I don't see that happening.

Mya Stone, Sandor, and Brienne are useful as friends and protectors, but not much good politically.  It's also quite possible she could run into Arya and Jeyne Poole, especially if those two head for White Harbor.

I don't see any real likelihood of Sansa getting involved with the Riverlands. She's spent no time there, and shown no interest.  The North is home; that's probably where she'll head when she's ready to leave the Vale.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, LongRider said:

Mya Stone will be an ally I think, plus, hopefully Sandor Clegane will come back into the story and become her trusted top dog.   Harry will be doomed in the tourney and doubtful that he will marry Sansa.  Agree that Vale will be behind her and want to do away with Littlefinger.  

Mya is critical i think as hes sansas friend

Luthor brune is smitten with her and hes lfs right handman and muscle! He may know lfs secrets

Sansa also has myranda royce whos a gossip queen and info hub. 

[Corvo the Crow]

 

40 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Given how much she knows, Myranda Royce will be essential to get on Sansa's side.  Harrold Hardyng is I think a red herring, and a redshirt.  He's doomed.

In order to take on LF she is going to need to get Yohn Royce on her side.  He's the big pooh-bah in the Vale.  She gets him, others will follow.  How she gets to him I don't know.

I think she eventually ends up going North.  She will need to get the Manderlys on her side if she does.  I believe Wylis, son of Wyman and father of Wylla, is in charge.  Wylla is a well-known Stark fan, so Sansa might start with her.

If she can get Yohn Royce and Wylis Manderly on her side, she has it made.  If they oppose her, she's toast, but I don't see that happening.

Mya Stone, Sandor, and Brienne are useful as friends and protectors, but not much good politically.  It's also quite possible she could run into Arya and Jeyne Poole, especially if those two head for White Harbor.

I don't see any real likelihood of Sansa getting involved with the Riverlands. She's spent no time there, and shown no interest.  The North is home; that's probably where she'll head when she's ready to leave the Vale.

 

Harry the Heir is Hairy the Bear to Sansa's Maiden Fair and we all know what happens to the Hairy Bear.

Quote

Brienne tried to dart around, but he kicked her legs out from under her. She fell in the sand, clutching the useless sword. Jaime straddled her, and the bear came charging.

There was a deep twang, and a feathered shaft sprouted suddenly beneath the beast's left eye. Blood and slaver ran from his open mouth, and another bolt took him in the leg. The bear roared, reared. He saw Jaime and Brienne again and lumbered toward them. More crossbows fired, the quarrels ripping through fur and flesh. At such short range, the bowmen could hardly miss. The shafts hit as hard as maces, but the bear took another step. The poor dumb brave brute. When the beast swiped at him, he danced aside, shouting, kicking sand. The bear turned to follow his tormentor, and took another two quarrels in the back. He gave one last rumbling growl, settled back onto his haunches, stretched out on the bloodstained sand, and died.

 

 

As for Sansa herself, she'll be joining the Vale Clansmen soon. Sansa is Ygritte to Timett's Jon and her allies and followers will include Vale Clansmen, especially Timett and his burned men. Timett has seen her and he knows and respects Tyrion, declaring herself to be his wife would help her avoid being taken as a wife to some clansmen while if news of Jon and Stannis letting Wildlings has reached the Vale, Sansa can actually use that to her advantage as well. Clansmen have demonstrated that they are willing to make deals and Timett has shown that he understands some concepts, such as following orders of a leader, that are alien to the rest of his fellows. Sansa can promise them a reward to deliver her to her brother, the Lord Commander who has shown himself to be not hostile to wildlings.

 

 

 

 

 

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

In order to take on LF she is going to need to get Yohn Royce on her side.

Royce seems doubtful of Alayne's identity and will get behind her once he realizes she is Sansa Stark.  She may be delayed for some time at the Vale due to needing to attend to food distribution to the small folk. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Sansa will have allies through either Petyr or Robin.  Sansa won't have followers because she's not a leader.  She never has been a leader.  Follower is the best way to describe Sansa. 

[Curled Finger]

Sansa is connected in impressive ways to people who will become impressive.  Her uncle should be Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, her cousin should be LP of the Vale and what they call of the East, her brother in law or husband should be LP of the Westerlands and what they call it of the West, her half brother should be LC of the Nights Watch and her best friend ever should be Queen of the 7 Kingdoms.  In theory Sansa should be in great shape all over the place.  She could use a friend in the Iron Islands, maybe the southern North and Dorne, but she's very young still.  

Bronze Yohn has met Sansa.  Whether he remembers her under that dark hair remains to be seen.  She's got kin in the Vale.  Are they playing it cool or simply dumb?  I can't see Martin wasting our Sansa's maidenhead on a jerk like Harry so it will not happen.  Myranda Royce is trying to get proof for someone that Sansa is Sansa.  This could be a good thing.  Sansa is charming enough entirely all on her own to win everyone everywhere over.  She just needs to be able to get out there in the public free to do as she will, not what frickin Littlefinger wills.  He said he plans to turn her out in her natural hair color with a stark wedding cloak I thought.  Maybe she won't be a bastard for long? Once it's fine for the fancy folk to hobnob with her she will have plenty of friends. 

[Aebram]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:11 PM, Nevets said:

In order to take on LF she is going to need to get Yohn Royce on her side.  He's the big pooh-bah in the Vale.  She gets him, others will follow.  How she gets to him I don't know.

The Vale lords are cooperating with Littlefinger, but I don't think any of them like it, or him. They will happily turn against him if an opportunity presents itself. His hold on them comes mainly from his physical custody of Sweetrobin. The Eyrie may be impregnable; but with the whole family down at the Gates of the Moon for the tourney, perhaps there will be a sudden change of custody for the boy.

This is speculative, but it occurs to me that the tournament of Winged Knights may be an echo of the tourney at Harrenhal. With all the lords gathered, it's a great place to plan a conspiracy to take power away from LF. But perhaps LF will be crafty enough to anticipate this, and the conspiracy will fail.

A lot of things could happen at this tourney ... and Sansa will be in the middle of it. Will she be a player, or just a piece in the game? I suspect the latter. Sorry, I know many of you are rooting for her, and expect or hope that she will achieve greatness. It's possible that she will; but looking at her story arc, I really don't see any signs of it. All of the dramatic events that happened to her, well, that's just it: they happened to her. The only time she took any initiative was when she told Cersei about her father's plans to return their family to Winterfell; and look out that turned out.

Much of what happens next in the Vale, the North, and the Riverlands may revolve around Sansa, but I don't see her taking much of an active role. I don't hate her; I hope that her story line has a happy ending, after all the trouble she's been through. But will she be Queen or Lady of something? To me, it seems just as likely that she will end up married to Sandor, living in a crofter's cabin with a bunch of children, and happy to be far, far away from King's Landing with its intrigues and deceptions.

[Nevets]

14 minutes ago, Aebram said:

The Vale lords are cooperating with Littlefinger, but I don't think any of them like it, or him. They will happily turn against him if an opportunity presents itself. His hold on them comes mainly from his physical custody of Sweetrobin. The Eyrie may be impregnable; but with the whole family down at the Gates of the Moon for the tourney, perhaps there will be a sudden change of custody for the boy.

This is speculative, but it occurs to me that the tournament of Winged Knights may be an echo of the tourney at Harrenhal. With all the lords gathered, it's a great place to plan a conspiracy to take power away from LF. But perhaps LF will be crafty enough to anticipate this, and the conspiracy will fail.

A lot of things could happen at this tourney ... and Sansa will be in the middle of it. Will she be a player, or just a piece in the game? I suspect the latter. Sorry, I know many of you are rooting for her, and expect or hope that she will achieve greatness. It's possible that she will; but looking at her story arc, I really don't see any signs of it. All of the dramatic events that happened to her, well, that's just it: they happened to her. The only time she took any initiative was when she told Cersei about her father's plans to return their family to Winterfell; and look out that turned out.

Much of what happens next in the Vale, the North, and the Riverlands may revolve around Sansa, but I don't see her taking much of an active role. I don't hate her; I hope that her story line has a happy ending, after all the trouble she's been through. But will she be Queen or Lady of something? To me, it seems just as likely that she will end up married to Sandor, living in a crofter's cabin with a bunch of children, and happy to be far, far away from King's Landing with its intrigues and deceptions.

Sansa has grown as a character more than just about anyone else.  The next logical step in her growth will be an increased willingness and ability to take the initiative and make things happen.  Given everything that's happening, or is likely to, there will likely be plenty of opportunities to do stuff, or maybe to refuse to do stuff (like marry Harry).  She's already learning from Littlefinger how to make stuff happen; it's just a matter of putting her knowledge into practice.

[LongRider]

 

2 hours ago, Aebram said:

The Vale lords are cooperating with Littlefinger, but I don't think any of them like it, or him.

Some of the Vale lords are with LF, but not all.  In the paragraph below, it's noted the Bronze Yohn Royce is not, and it is noted, other Lords Declarant may follow him.  Is LF so arrogant, self-involved or so hung up on Alayne that he's missing the message here.  Bronze Yohn Royce is a man of respect in the Vale, while LF, well, perhaps not so much.

 EXCERPT FROM THE WINDS OF WINTER, gift Chapter,  APRIL 2, 2015
ALAYNE

“How am I to stop that, my lord?”
” Post guardsmen on the docks. If need be, seize the ships. How does not matter, so long as no food leaves the Vale. “
“These prices, though,”  protested fat Lord Belmore,”  these prices are more than fair.”
“You say more than fair, my lord. I say less than we would wish. Wait. If need be, buy the food yourself and keep it stored. Winter is coming. Prices must go higher.”
” Perhaps,”  said Belmore, doubtfully.
“Bronze Yohn will not wait, ”  Grafton complained. ” He need not ship through Gulltown, he has his own ports. Whilst we are hoarding our harvest, Royce and the other Lords Declarant will turn theirs into silver, you may be sure of that.”
” Let us hope so,”  said Petyr. “When their granaries are empty, they will need every scrap of that silver to buy sustenance from us."

[Corvo the Crow]

On 6/15/2023 at 6:44 AM, Curled Finger said:

Sansa is connected in impressive ways to people who will become impressive.  Her uncle should be Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, her cousin should be LP of the Vale and what they call of the East, her brother in law or husband should be LP of the Westerlands and what they call it of the West, her half brother should be LC of the Nights Watch and her best friend ever should be Queen of the 7 Kingdoms.  In theory Sansa should be in great shape all over the place.  She could use a friend in the Iron Islands, maybe the southern North and Dorne, but she's very young still.  

Bronze Yohn has met Sansa.  Whether he remembers her under that dark hair remains to be seen.  She's got kin in the Vale.  Are they playing it cool or simply dumb?  I can't see Martin wasting our Sansa's maidenhead on a jerk like Harry so it will not happen.  Myranda Royce is trying to get proof for someone that Sansa is Sansa.  This could be a good thing.  Sansa is charming enough entirely all on her own to win everyone everywhere over.  She just needs to be able to get out there in the public free to do as she will, not what frickin Littlefinger wills.  He said he plans to turn her out in her natural hair color with a stark wedding cloak I thought.  Maybe she won't be a bastard for long? Once it's fine for the fancy folk to hobnob with her she will have plenty of friends. 

Sansa is the spitting image of Catelyn and most likely resembles a young Lysa, both Tully sisters have been seen by most if not all of them.

[Hippocras]

I see a lot of posts on this thread that I think misinterpret Myranda. She is a sneaky frenemy that one, not a straightforward ally. She is friendly with Sansa but trying to pull out her secrets, and she sees Sansa as a rival. Sansa may be able to still use that if she is REALLY smart, but Sansa is still very young and naive so I don't think she has the upper hand. Myranda is dangerous. 

Yohn Royce is her best hope at a serious ally. Most of her other allies will be ones she needs to watch carefully as they have ulterior motives.

 

[Curled Finger]

5 hours ago, Hippocras said:

I see a lot of posts on this thread that I think misinterpret Myranda. She is a sneaky frenemy that one, not a straightforward ally. She is friendly with Sansa but trying to pull out her secrets, and she sees Sansa as a rival. Sansa may be able to still use that if she is REALLY smart, but Sansa is still very young and naive so I don't think she has the upper hand. Myranda is dangerous. 

Yohn Royce is her best hope at a serious ally. Most of her other allies will be ones she needs to watch carefully as they have ulterior motives.

 

Fair call.  Still I can't help but wonder what harm could come to Sansa in the Vale if her cover is blown by Myranda Royce?  The only person I can see who has any real burning animosity against LF is Lyn Corbray.  He has a serious case of Second Son here that does not appear to be getting any better.  Supposing anyone gets word to Cersei or Brienne, the only known people looking for Sansa, what harm could actually come to her?  How would someone like Myranda Royce benefit?  Little Finger is still the one calling the shots.  He can ice Myranda out of advantageous marriages.  He's not going to allow Sansa to be taken or kept for long.  Luthor Brune won't, either.   Little Finger has all the resources, money and power to shut a proper kidnapping down.  His reach is long.

[Curled Finger]

5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Sansa is the spitting image of Catelyn and most likely resembles a young Lysa, both Tully sisters have been seen by most if not all of them.

Right.  I feel a conspiracy brewing.  It is so well hidden I can't be certain it's even there.  We know the Lords Protectant despise frickin Little Finger, but he continues to buy them off, seemingly winning them over.  Is he winning them over?  He's sure solving their problems.  Is that what they're waiting for?  Get theirs then obliterate him?  

Could it be they are unsure of Sansa's ID?  I'm thinking not.  Still I don't know what they are waiting for and have nothing but Sweetrobin left.  

[LongRider]

26 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

  Is that what they're waiting for?

They are waiting for the tourney, that's where the anti-LF action starts, the Sansa get away starts and perhaps other shenanigans too.  The tourney is gonna be fun, fun, fun! 

[Curled Finger]

31 minutes ago, LongRider said:

They are waiting for the tourney, that's where the anti-LF action starts, the Sansa get away starts and perhaps other shenanigans too.  The tourney is gonna be fun, fun, fun! 

Supposing this does turn out something like Harrenhal, which is a fascinating idea, by the way, what do you anticipate?  Is Sansa in the Whent girl or Lyanna's role?  Little Finger would be Aerys.  Who would be Rhaegar leading the Lords Declarant in conspiracy against him?  Any guesses as to the identity of the mystery knight bound to be in attendance here?  Would Harry assume Jamie's disgraced new Winged Knight role?   This could be a fun topic.

[LongRider]

11 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Supposing this does turn out something like Harrenhal, which is a fascinating idea, by the way, what do you anticipate?  Is Sansa in the Whent girl or Lyanna's role?  Little Finger would be Aerys.  Who would be Rhaegar leading the Lords Declarant in conspiracy against him?  Any guesses as to the identity of the mystery knight bound to be in attendance here?  Would Harry assume Jamie's disgraced new Winged Knight role?   This could be a fun topic.

I don't think this will mirror the Harrenhal tourney.  This tourney will most likely be attended by folks from the Vale, and with folks wanting to become Winged Knights.  Many young men who with enough excitement and wine could provide a tableau of fights, jealousies, and tourney games to cover all sorts of covert action.  

LF gifted many of the young men with brand new knives, so I expect them to be used.  Shadrich is scheming on finding Sansa, meanwhile, LF wants Alyane to scheme on Harry and I can see Myranda scheming on Harry.  

Like the Tourney of the Hand, this tourney should have it's own flavor and action not be a carbon copy of any previous tourney in my view.  I do agree with you though, it could be a fun topic.  

[Curled Finger]

7 minutes ago, LongRider said:

I don't think this will mirror the Harrenhal tourney.  This tourney will most likely be attended by folks from the Vale, and with folks wanting to become Winged Knights.  Many young men who with enough excitement and wine could provide a tableau of fights, jealousies, and tourney games to cover all sorts of covert action.  

LF gifted many of the young men with brand new knives, so I expect them to be used.  Shadrich is scheming on finding Sansa, meanwhile, LF wants Alyane to scheme on Harry and I can see Myranda scheming on Harry.  

Like the Tourney of the Hand, this tourney should have it's own flavor and action not be a carbon copy of any previous tourney in my view.  I do agree with you though, it could be a fun topic.  

I was under the impression Myranda was scheming on Little Finger--anyone not two heartbeats from dead and wealthy really.  Maybe she's actually scheming on Alayne?  Yikes!  

Baelish seems to be well connected and I think liked in Gull Town.  This is a most interesting place to me.  I am hoping the last missing sword, Truth, will appear somewhere in this tourney.  Yes, yes, it's been a long time, but Gull Town is the last place it was seen and it's all I've got.  Personal interest aside, this is a closed invitation only sort of party, but I do wonder if important people from other areas will come as observers.  

The gifts are very interesting.  A show of opulence or the beginning of the armament of the Vale forces?  What is Little Finger really doing here?