Truths From Qarth

[Alester Florent]

50 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

@csuszka1948, why are you laughing at the fact Stannis has GUTTED future tourism income in Dragonstone by burning those statues of the Seven? What Stannis did was like burning the fresco on the Sistine Chapel.

A bourgeois concern. Only those of a certain standing could afford to travel to Dragonstone to see it. The rest of them can still view images of it on the weirwood network, which is all they'd ever have been able to do anyway.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

19 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

• Treacherously murdered his own brother Renly, through the use of black magic, thereby robbing everyone in Westeros of the Best King Ever™ and me of my favourite character
• Destroyed a monument of outstanding cultural, historical and religious significance just so he could perform in a lame, half-assed fake ritual
• Killed a man of outstanding courage and honour, a True Knight, RIP Ser Courtnay Penrose
• Endorsed a religion that promotes: burning people alive, human sacrifice, fraud, delusions of grandeur, overconfidence in ones own abilities, zealotry, religious warfare, slavery, 'ends (that might not even happen) justify my dubious means' type mentality, destruction of property of great cultural and religious value, destruction of nature, draining people's life force to kill more people, unrealistic black or white no in-between views, prostitution (ironic), adultery (ironic), delusions in general, etc.
• Promotes conspiracy theories based on flimsy evidence because they are self-serving
• Attempting to undermine the socio-economic-cultural sphere of Westeros for his own selfish ends
• Gross hypocrisy
• Promoted piracy
• Left Robert to die

1. Is it more noble to kill 10,000 men (including your brother) at battle than 1 using magic?

2. Yeah he should not have destroyed those statues tbh. 

3. Killed a traitor

4. Agreed that Rhllorism is extreme, but he is not forcing the commons nor high born to join it.

5.  Conspiracy theories? Do you mean Joff being a bastard?

6. How?

 

[Craving Peaches]

5 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

1. Is it more noble to kill 10,000 men (including your brother) at battle than 1 using magic?

Well they were killed in battle when they all burned alive, so Stannis did not spare any lives there. And Stannis would probably not have been able to kill Renly in battle anyway, Renly was not leading from the front and was going to win the battle.

5 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

3. Killed a traitor

In a dishonourable way. There was no reason not to grant Ser Courtnay's request for single combat. He had the Knights for it. Also, Courtnay was trying to protect Edric from Stannis, we see he's right later on when Stannis tries to burn Edric alive.

5 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

but he is not forcing the commons nor high born to join it.

He's not, but he allows the R'hlorrites to burn Septs etc. which is forcing people to join through intimidation, fear, and destruction of places of worship...

5 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Conspiracy theories? Do you mean Joff being a bastard?

Stannis has the most flimsy proof ever Joff is a bastard. Going by his 'evidence', Sansa and Robb are Catelyn's bastards with Edmure. Also, claiming he is AA is just nonsence.

5 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

6. How?

Wants to ban prostitution, allows religious and cultural monuments to be destroyed, spreads falsehoods, gives fanatics too much influence in his government, etc. If Stannis took charge it would be like when Oliver Cromwell took charge - miserable as.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:55 AM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

One of the better parts of the novels for me has to be the chapters in Qarth.  Daenerys enters the House Of The Undying seeking answers.  Pyat Pree was not expecting Daenerys to survive and what she saw inside were secrets meant to not come out.  The warlocks and witches have no reason to lie.  They didn't think the Targaryen princess would survive them.  Dany beat the trap because she has a sharp mind and she had Drogon. 

Pyat instructed Dany to only take the doors to the right.  Always the right.  This is a physical impossibility given the size and design of the house as seen from the outside.  It is not the Tardis with a bigger inside.  She entered another realm where the physics and time are different.  Which is why she can see the past as well as the future.  Dany traveled through time and back again. The long, dark hallway repeats an earlier dream from A Game Of Thrones.  The ancient kingly ancestors were not present this time but she had someone better to protect her this time.  Drogon. 

Room 1.  The woman and the four naked little men.  These are Baratheon, Stark, Greyjoy, and Lannister raping Westeros.  The naked woman is Dany's kingdom.  The four villainous families are destroying the beautiful kingdom.  This vision is the war caused by the dispute between Stannis and Renly.  Robb and Cersei.  Balon needing to bring back the old way of life for the Ironborn.  The Lannisters wanting to keep the throne. 

Room 2.  The Red Wedding.  Dany seeing a picture of the wedding at the twins.  The dead man wearing the head of the wolf is Robb Stark begging for justice.  

Room 3.  The room describes a child's play room.  Her room in Braavos.  She dodged the lure of the trap. 

Room 4.  Her father's throne room in Kings' Landing.  Aerys ordering the pyromancers to burn the city. 

Room 5.  Rhaegar's failure.  Rhaegar thought his boy will be the prince who was promised.  He looked at Dany and said there must be one more.  I know Rhaegar failed because he began messing around with Lyanna.  He didn't stay on course.  Dany fulfills the needed third.  Rhaegar looked in Dany's direction like Robb did earlier.  Aegon and Rhaenys are dead.  Rhaegar failed to father his three dragons just like he failed to become the next king. Rhaegar got the prophecy wrong.  Dany is the three-headed dragon.  She is the dragon with three heads, Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion. 

The lights in the Hallway are starting to go out.  The Long Night is approaching.  Drogon sensed the darkness and urged Dany on.  Dany's sharp mind figured out the trick and took the door.  More doors to the right finally took her back to the light. 

Pyat Pree tried to push Dany back but she was not fooled.  She saw the real Pyat Pree for the pale wormlike creature that he is.  Reminds me of what Bran is becoming.  She ignored Pyat and walked through the door to the place of the undying. 

The Undying have been waiting for Dany, the Prince Who Was Promised. 

"Long have we awaited you.  We knew you were to come to us.  A thousand years ago we knew, and have been waiting all this time.  We sent the comet to show you the way."

"We have knowledge to share with you.  And magic weapons to arm you with."  The man in the emerald armor was talking about Lightbringer. 

Mother of dragons, child of storm, child of three.  They recognize Daenerys of House Targaryen, the Mother of dragons.  She was born on Dragonstone during a storm.  She is a Targaryen, the child of ancestors Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya. 

The Three Fires.  Executions.  She will order three executions by fire.  Mirri was a traitor and was the first execution. 

Three treasons.  Mirri was the first.  She murdered Khal Drogo and engineered the death of Prince Rhaego.  Related to the fires.  Two more traitors will be burned to death. 

Mother of dragons, daughter of death.  Rhaella, Aerys, Rhaegar, Viserys, Rhaenys, Aegon, and Rhaego are dead.  Dany is the last of the Targaryens.  She is the only heir to the kingdom. 

Mother of dragon, slayer of lies.  Stannis, Aegon, and the stone beast are frauds.  Dany is Azor Ahai.  Aegon is not the heir to Westeros.  He's not a Targaryen.  The third, a man will come pretending to be a Targaryen and he will get burned.

Mother of dragons, bride of fire.  Drogo was not a Targaryen.  He was not fire.  So the fire is Dany herself.  She is a bride made of fire.  This is true because dragons are said to be fire made flesh.  Dany will give three men to the flames. She will light three funeral fires for three men.  Drogo was the first after Mirri murdered him.  The corpse on the prow of the ship might be a Greyjoy but I think it's the body of Maester Aemon who will be brought to Dany by the Ironborn.  The Greyjoy warship will be transporting the body to be burned.  The blue rose is Jon Snow.  Jon betrayed the Nights Watch and caused a crack in the wall.  Jon's inept leadership weakened the military order.  The blue flower has taken roots in the cracks he made.  Jon will never leave the wall even though he is a Targaryen bastard.  Dany will go to the wall and burn Jon's body per Targaryen custom.

 

 

The nude woman is the seven kingdoms built by the Targaryens. The profane creatures touching the woman are Robb, Stannis, Tywin, and Renly. Balon was already dead.  The vision is coming from the future so there are other men to consider. The other usual suspects are Joffrey, Tommen, Aegon, and a fourth man who will hold the throne briefly before Dany comes home. 
 

 

[Quoth the raven,]

Dany's fires serve many purposes.  The first fire cremated Drogo and punished the witch.  Witch's blood added to Khal Drogo's and the stallion's made the magic more powerful.  The second fire will cremate Aegon and execute Euron.  The blood of Pyat Pree will provide the magic.  Burning the Silence will take the part of the Stallion.  More dragons eggs will hatch.  Jon Snow, Mellissandre,  and Ghost will burn in the third fire.  More dragons will hatch.  Mellissandre will try to fool the people to accept Jon Snow as Azor Ahai.  She and Jon will be roasted for this crime. 

[Tyrosh Lannister]

15 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The nude woman is the seven kingdoms built by the Targaryens. The profane creatures touching the woman are Robb, Stannis, Tywin, and Renly. Balon was already dead.  The vision is coming from the future so there are other men to consider. The other usual suspects are Joffrey, Tommen, Aegon, and a fourth man who will hold the throne briefly before Dany comes home. 
 

 

Could the 4th one be Euron ?

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 8/15/2023 at 6:05 AM, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Could the 4th one be Euron ?

Possibly because it is an event from the future. So yeah. Bran is a suspect as well. Filth having their way with the Targaryen kingdom.  

[Son of Man]

The scenes may have been ordered in a straight time line chronologically or maybe not.  They are raw data coming from the dead.  The dead no longer experience the passage of time because they have died.  The past and the future are the same to them.  Time is no longer moving. 

@The Gizzard of Oz

Daenerys came to find one answer.  The answer to how she can take her kingdom back from Robert Baratheon.  Everyone of the scenes are pieces of the answer to that problem.  The three treasons, husbands, fires, and the identity of the impostors were revealed.  Revealed to the reader but Daenerys will have to slowly discover. 

Treasons.  Jaime, Walder and Roose, and Jon Snow are the treasonous people.  Jaime murdered King Aerys for blood, gold, and love.  The same things which motivated Walder and Roose to betray Robb Stark.  Walder did it for family, the blood.  Roose for money, silver or gold makes no difference.  They were Tyrin's men and serving the Lannister gold.  Walder loved his family and Robb insulted them.  Jon Snow loved Arya and betrayed the Night's Watch. Jon disgraced himself for blood and for love. Those are the treasons which will come up and present decision points for Daenerys in Westeros.  Politics.  She will need to navigate the thorny political issues surrounding Jaime, Walder, and Jon.  What they did left a deep scar in the fabric of Westeros.  Forgive or punish or maybe something in between.  

The fires signify the most important turning points in her life.  The silver mare jumping the fire gave her the confidence she needed to deal with a tough marriage and gave her a new title, Khaleesi.  Drogo's cremation added Azor Ahai and Mother Of Dragons to her identity.  The fire in Astapor made her Mhysa the Liberator.  The Ironborn gift of the Armada will add another powerful weapon to those she already possesses.  Cremation released Drogo's soul from his human body.  The same thing will happen after she cremates Aegon and Jon.  Their souls will be released so they can move on to the next stage of their lives.  Drogo became Drogon.  I don't know what that is for Aegon but it is the Direwolf for Jon. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Son of Man

[The Commentator]

Rhaegar is not even one of the top three to have sired Jon Snow. Howland Reed, Brandon Stark, and Mance Rayder are the more likely to have been the lover of Lyanna Stark. If Dany burns Jon it will be at the Trident. 
 

[Alester Florent]

6 hours ago, The Commentator said:

Rhaegar is not even one of the top three to have sired Jon Snow. Howland Reed, Brandon Stark, and Mance Rayder are the more likely to have been the lover of Lyanna Stark. If Dany burns Jon it will be at the Trident. 
 

None of them are even in the frame. The top three are surely the Tattered Prince (in disguise), Ghost (warging Daario Naharis) and Jon himself, while time-travelling.

[Craving Peaches]

I find it amusing that this thread is titled 'Truths from Qarth', yet most of the posts are anything but.

[Son of Man]

On 8/27/2023 at 9:54 PM, Son of Man said:

The scenes may have been ordered in a straight time line chronologically or maybe not.  They are raw data coming from the dead.  The dead no longer experience the passage of time because they have died.  The past and the future are the same to them.  Time is no longer moving. 

@The Gizzard of Oz

Daenerys came to find one answer.  The answer to how she can take her kingdom back from Robert Baratheon.  Everyone of the scenes are pieces of the answer to that problem.  The three treasons, husbands, fires, and the identity of the impostors were revealed.  Revealed to the reader but Daenerys will have to slowly discover. 

Treasons.  Jaime, Walder and Roose, and Jon Snow are the treasonous people.  Jaime murdered King Aerys for blood, gold, and love.  The same things which motivated Walder and Roose to betray Robb Stark.  Walder did it for family, the blood.  Roose for money, silver or gold makes no difference.  They were Tyrin's men and serving the Lannister gold.  Walder loved his family and Robb insulted them.  Jon Snow loved Arya and betrayed the Night's Watch. Jon disgraced himself for blood and for love. Those are the treasons which will come up and present decision points for Daenerys in Westeros.  Politics.  She will need to navigate the thorny political issues surrounding Jaime, Walder, and Jon.  What they did left a deep scar in the fabric of Westeros.  Forgive or punish or maybe something in between.  

The fires signify the most important turning points in her life.  The silver mare jumping the fire gave her the confidence she needed to deal with a tough marriage and gave her a new title, Khaleesi.  Drogo's cremation added Azor Ahai and Mother Of Dragons to her identity.  The fire in Astapor made her Mhysa the Liberator.  The Ironborn gift of the Armada will add another powerful weapon to those she already possesses.  Cremation released Drogo's soul from his human body.  The same thing will happen after she cremates Aegon and Jon.  Their souls will be released so they can move on to the next stage of their lives.  Drogo became Drogon.  I don't know what that is for Aegon but it is the Direwolf for Jon. 

Part II

Bran's dreams were coming from the living weirwood tree.  There was no interaction.  It was like reading a book from page to page.  His is in reverse chronological timeline.  Dany was interacting with her visions.  The undying were showing her visions of things in the past and what could come in the future.  Hers may be randomly timed.  The naked girl and the dwarfs could have taken place thousands of years past.

[chrisdaw]

One should quote the actual text when doing a topic like this.

The dwarves ravishing the woman will prove not to be the commonly interpreted WOT5Ks. The event it is foreshadowing hasn't happened yet, the woman does represent Westeros and the dwarf men are of Euron's doing and Aeron's dreams/vision (note the general destruction GRRM accompanies that dream with).

I don't think the second is the Red Wedding, I think it's about Jon and GRRM again is playing games making a vision that appears to happen when the true happening is coming later and hitting harder. The vision doesn't necessarily make the king out to be a victim, a returned Jon can be viewed as both dead and having a wolf's head, and sitting there on a throne above the scene with the lamb leg as if it is a king's scepter makes me think the scene is his doing.

The way GRRM describes the scene doesn't tie into the Red Wedding themes to me. There's beheaded corpses, who was getting beheaded at the Red wedding? Beheadings speak to justice, as does severed hands reaching for goods. For mine the scene reads like symbolism for the king figure executing a bunch of lords for their excesses.

With an understanding of the Others and that the world of men is at stake Jon will lead a host South and he will destroy everyone who does not submit to him on the way, he's going to be ruthless and it's going to be very bloody. Dany will be with him most the way and I believe this HOTU scene is about that.

The mute appeal to Dany I believe is because she will have the power to prevent it all having to come to this and Jon having to become this. It's a "save me from having to do this" but by the time she understands this she will have lost the power to do anything about it.

[SaffronLady]

1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

the lamb leg

Maybe this is a hint at a future conflict involving a noble house with lamb as heraldry.