Most stupid things Lannisters, other than Cersei and Joffrey, ever did ?

[astarkchoice]

14 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

I mean you could say the same about any relationship. I don't think that's necessarily healthy.

Not that Tyrion's relationship with Shae is healthy either, but I don't think that's a valid criticism.

Fair enough but the rest i said was valid

[Craving Peaches]

The way Tywin raised his children has ensured massive loss of prestige for House Lannister and undone all his work.

[Lee-Sensei]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

The way Tywin raised his children has ensured massive loss of prestige for House Lannister and undone all his work.

Tyrion? Sure. But how do you think he screwed up the twins?

[Craving Peaches]

10 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Tyrion? Sure. But how do you think he screwed up the twins?

Cersei has just not been raised well in my opinion. The way she treats people is just stupid. Her and Jaime just do not seem to properly comprehend the consequences of their actions. I also doubt Cersei was really disciplined that much since she acts so spoilt and entitled, and taught Joffrey to be the same.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[Lee-Sensei]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Cersei has just don't been raised well in my opinion. The way she treats people is just stupid. Her and Jaime just do not seem to properly comprehend the consequences of their actions. I also doubt Cersei was really disciplined that much since she acts so spoilt and entitled, and taught Joffrey to be the same.

Fair enough, but I think that might just partially be in her nature. She cruel even as a child and I don't think it can all be put on Tywin (I'm not saying that you are).

[Alester Florent]

I don't think Cersei's character can be pinned on Tywin, but I do wonder if he should have paid a bit more attention to the monster he was raising. He doesn't seem to have spent any time teaching Cersei the value of patience or how to command loyalty and respect, which is one of the reasons she's so appalling as queen regent. He couldn't have stopped her being cruel - indeed he probably wouldn't have wanted to, being a cruel man himself - but he could have taught her pragmatism.

Of course, Cersei might just not have listened. She's an idiot.

Jaime has perhaps been more obviously screwed up (apart from anything else, Tywin's forcing his complicity in the Tysha business must have damaged him). But the blame for that is spread around: not just Tywin, but Aerys and Cersei too. Unlike Cersei, though, I don't think his recklessness in the early part of the series is down to an oversight from Tywin; I think that's because Jaime, in the depths of post-Aerys nihilism, has simply stopped caring about the consequences of his actions. As he has started to regain his self-respect, he has become more cautious and sensible, at least right up until he goes off with Brienne on his own, but that's a matter of honour, and perhaps the point at which we can say he has finally become the hero he wanted to be.

[Angel Eyes]

22 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

Jaime has perhaps been more obviously screwed up (apart from anything else, Tywin's forcing his complicity in the Tysha business must have damaged him). But the blame for that is spread around: not just Tywin, but Aerys and Cersei too. Unlike Cersei, though, I don't think his recklessness in the early part of the series is down to an oversight from Tywin; I think that's because Jaime, in the depths of post-Aerys nihilism, has simply stopped caring about the consequences of his actions. As he has started to regain his self-respect, he has become more cautious and sensible, at least right up until he goes off with Brienne on his own, but that's a matter of honour, and perhaps the point at which we can say he has finally become the hero he wanted to be.

Or Lady Stoneheart hangs him.

[sifth]

Let's be real, all 3 of the Lannister siblings, are screwed up in their own special way. The fact that Tywin had no idea that two of them were sleeping together, while Tyrion did, shows how little attention he was giving them.

[Lee-Sensei]

48 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

I don't think Cersei's character can be pinned on Tywin, but I do wonder if he should have paid a bit more attention to the monster he was raising. He doesn't seem to have spent any time teaching Cersei the value of patience or how to command loyalty and respect, which is one of the reasons she's so appalling as queen regent. He couldn't have stopped her being cruel - indeed he probably wouldn't have wanted to, being a cruel man himself - but he could have taught her pragmatism.

Of course, Cersei might just not have listened. She's an idiot.

Jaime has perhaps been more obviously screwed up (apart from anything else, Tywin's forcing his complicity in the Tysha business must have damaged him). But the blame for that is spread around: not just Tywin, but Aerys and Cersei too. Unlike Cersei, though, I don't think his recklessness in the early part of the series is down to an oversight from Tywin; I think that's because Jaime, in the depths of post-Aerys nihilism, has simply stopped caring about the consequences of his actions. As he has started to regain his self-respect, he has become more cautious and sensible, at least right up until he goes off with Brienne on his own, but that's a matter of honour, and perhaps the point at which we can say he has finally become the hero he wanted to be.

How old was Jaime during the Tysha incident? Was he really forced?

14 minutes ago, sifth said:

Let's be real, all 3 of the Lannister siblings, are screwed up in their own special way. The fact that Tywin had no idea that two of them were sleeping together, while Tyrion did, shows how little attention he was giving them.

I don't think Tyrion knew. I could be wrong, but I think he found out sometime between AGOT and ACOK.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Lee-Sensei

[sifth]

54 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

How old was Jaime during the Tysha incident? Was he really forced?

I don't think Tyrion knew. I could be wrong, but I think he found out sometime between AGOT and ACOK.

He has a line in ACOK, when he meets Cersei in his first chapter, where he tells her something like "father might be blind when it comes to your secrets, but I'm not".

[Craving Peaches]

8 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Fair enough, but I think that might just partially be in her nature.

I think a large part of it is probably innate but I also think Tywin could have curbed it a bit if he'd been a better parent. Her nastiness might be nature but the stupid way she acts is probably nurture.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:57 PM, sifth said:

Jamie not getting rid of the wildfire in Kings Landing.

This this this this and this.

It is by far the only thing in the story that still wracks my brains. LIKE WHY?!

(We discussed about this earlier but still the fact that this wasn’t properly addressed still bothers me)

[Odej]

9 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

How old was Jaime during the Tysha incident? Was he really forced?

Tyrion was thirteen so Jaime was nineteen-twenty.

[Lee-Sensei]

12 hours ago, sifth said:

He has a line in ACOK, when he meets Cersei in his first chapter, where he tells her something like "father might be blind when it comes to your secrets, but I'm not".

Yes. That's in ACOK though. There's an earlier moment when he notices a glance between Cersei and Jaime after Bran "fell" from that tower. The thing about Tyrion not knowing, is that I can't believe he wouldn't have confronted them about it sooner. He was loyal to the Lannisters at first and he knew that fathering bastards was stupid. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have confronted Jaimie about it years before ACOK if he was in the know.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

1 hour ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Yes. That's in ACOK though. There's an earlier moment when he notices a glance between Cersei and Jaime after Bran "fell" from that tower. The thing about Tyrion not knowing, is that I can't believe he wouldn't have confronted them about it sooner. He was loyal to the Lannisters at first and he knew that fathering bastards was stupid. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have confronted Jaimie about it years before ACOK if he was in the know.

I do think that Tyrion has at least suspected things for a while already, even unconsciously, but didn't try to intervene or confront his siblings out of love for Jaime and/or out of fear of straining his relation with the only sibling and one of the few people with whom he had a loving relation.

[Lee-Sensei]

44 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

I do think that Tyrion has at least suspected things for a while already, even unconsciously, but didn't try to intervene or confront his siblings out of love for Jaime and/or out of fear of straining his relation with the only sibling and one of the few people with whom he had a loving relation.

That doesn't seem like something he'd do tbh. Jaime was in much greater danger by continuing to bang his sister. I can't see him not talking to Jaime about it if he knew.

[sifth]

5 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

That doesn't seem like something he'd do tbh. Jaime was in much greater danger by continuing to bang his sister. I can't see him not talking to Jaime about it if he knew.

Isn't there a line, about how Tyrion tried to cheer Jamie up, on their way to Winterfell, since he was unable to sleep with Cersei on that trip?

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

23 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Or Lady Stoneheart hangs him.

For what it's worth, GRRM has said that he was "wrestling" with Jaime and Brienne in one of his TWoW updates, so I don't think that is likely to happen.

[Angel Eyes]

8 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

For what it's worth, GRRM has said that he was "wrestling" with Jaime and Brienne in one of his TWoW updates, so I don't think that is likely to happen.

Perhaps. I just don't see Jaime leaving Lady Stoneheart's presence alive, given his liking for realistic consequences.

[Alester Florent]

3 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Perhaps. I just don't see Jaime leaving Lady Stoneheart's presence alive, given his liking for realistic consequences.

The point isn't what happens to him now. It's that he made the decision to drop everything and go with Brienne to fulfil his oath. He doesn't know exactly what he's walking into, but Brienne told him it was the Hound, and Jaime surely knows that he stands no chance against the Hound in a fight in his current condition, so he knows full well he's going at risk of his life, and he goes anyway.

If he dies - and I don't think he will at this stage - then it'll be because he did the honourable thing, which is about the best a hero can ask for.