NFL 4th Quarter

[DireWolfSpirit]

I think Corum would be right at home going to the Lions in the draft , they love to run and Corum is a elusive 4.4 40 guy that will probably be effective at the next level.

McCarthy's stock is rising in some Mocks now- https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2024/01/08/nfl-mock-draft-2024-first-round-jj-mccarthy/72146744007/

[dbunting]

49 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I think Corum would be right at home going to the Lions in the draft , they love to run and Corum is a elusive 4.4 40 guy that will probably be effective at the next level.

McCarthy's stock is rising in some Mocks now- https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2024/01/08/nfl-mock-draft-2024-first-round-jj-mccarthy/72146744007/

He doesn't seem that quick, Edwards always seemed the faster of the two.

[DireWolfSpirit]

13 hours ago, dbunting said:

He doesn't seem that quick, Edwards always seemed the faster of the two.

Well we'll find out at the combine if its a legit time I guess.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Tough firing for Carroll. 

[Rhom]

Just now, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Tough firing for Carroll. 

That one surprised me quite a bit.

[dbunting]

24 minutes ago, Rhom said:

That one surprised me quite a bit.

Same here. He's staying on w the team.  Unfortunately for Cowboys fans Quinn is one logical candidate since he coached there as an asst before.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Same here. He's staying on w the team.  Unfortunately for Cowboys fans Quinn is one logical candidate since he coached there as an asst before.  

He's the same kind of coach though. They need to switch things up.

[Rhom]

You know, every year they trot out the stat about the average number of coaching vacancies that come up.  And every year, I look at it and think "Oh, this year won't be that much...." and then you get a firing like this or to a lesser extent Vrabel and you start to understand why there is so much turnover.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

End of an era:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39285303/bill-belichick-leaving-patriots-24-seasons-sources-say

Edited January 11 by Mr. Chatywin et al.

[Cas Stark]

There will  never be another run like the Patriots last 20 years.  It's hilarious and sad to hear my fellow Pats fans blabbing about how 'the game has changed' and BB hasn't.  Alrighty then.  You're going to get what you asked for and good.

 

[Maithanet]

33 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

There will  never be another run like the Patriots last 20 years.  It's hilarious and sad to hear my fellow Pats fans blabbing about how 'the game has changed' and BB hasn't.  Alrighty then.  You're going to get what you asked for and good.

I mean, they're sorta right, but there's nothing they can do about it.  The glory days of the Pats dynasty ended when Brady left.  Whether they keep BB or get a new coach, they are just another team now, and will be wallowing in the mud with the rest of us. 

That said, Belichick has been an absolute titan in the NFL these past 24 years.  So many of the biggest moments in the Brady-Belichick era are because some other player (often a no-name guy) made a big play, and you can't attribute that to anything but coaching.   

[Cas Stark]

20 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I mean, they're sorta right, but there's nothing they can do about it.  The glory days of the Pats dynasty ended when Brady left.  Whether they keep BB or get a new coach, they are just another team now, and will be wallowing in the mud with the rest of us. 

That said, Belichick has been an absolute titan in the NFL these past 24 years.  So many of the biggest moments in the Brady-Belichick era are because some other player (often a no-name guy) made a big play, and you can't attribute that to anything but coaching.   

 

Eh, I don't say it wasn't time for BB to leave the Pats, but seriously, they won their last superbowl 5 years ago.  The game has not 'changed' other than becoming ever more sloppy and poorly officiated.  BB problem was, for whatever reason, he was not a good judge of talent and if he didn't have someone on staff who was, then bad draft/trade decisions would happen.  

I expectr the Patriots to be mediocre to bad for the next several years, though I do like Vrabel, he's no BB.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

There will  never be another run like the Patriots last 20 years.  It's hilarious and sad to hear my fellow Pats fans blabbing about how 'the game has changed' and BB hasn't.  Alrighty then.  You're going to get what you asked for and good.

 

Probably not in the NFL, but we've seen somewhat similar runs in the MLB and NBA. The wild part is how bad of a GM Belichick was. It just highlights how one person shouldn't have both jobs.

[Cas Stark]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Probably not in the NFL, but we've seen somewhat similar runs in the MLB and NBA. The wild part is how bad of a GM Belichick was. It just highlights how one person shouldn't have both jobs.

I agree he would have been better to have a GM, or at least a stronger second in command.  But, you can't really say that he was a 'bad' GM, considering that there was basically a superbowl appearance almost every other year for 20+ years.  That is insane.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I agree he would have been better to have a GM, or at least a stronger second in command.  But, you can't really say that he was a 'bad' GM, considering that there was basically a superbowl appearance almost every other year for 20+ years.  That is insane.

I think one of the bigger strikes against his legacy is that with Brady he was stellar, and without Brady he was less than mediocre. Whereas Brady went off and went to another super bowl without Belichick. To be fair it's only been a couple of years, but it's still not a great sign of how good Belichick is. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I agree he would have been better to have a GM, or at least a stronger second in command.  But, you can't really say that he was a 'bad' GM, considering that there was basically a superbowl appearance almost every other year for 20+ years.  That is insane.

How many players did he draft turn into Pro Bowl players? Didn't he miss on literally every WR? 

8 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think one of the bigger strikes against his legacy is that with Brady he was stellar, and without Brady he was less than mediocre. Whereas Brady went off and went to another super bowl without Belichick. To be fair it's only been a couple of years, but it's still not a great sign of how good Belichick is. 

To be fair Tampa had the unusual luck of having their entire team be healthy during their playoff run while everyone else was beat up.

[Cas Stark]

15 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think one of the bigger strikes against his legacy is that with Brady he was stellar, and without Brady he was less than mediocre. Whereas Brady went off and went to another super bowl without Belichick. To be fair it's only been a couple of years, but it's still not a great sign of how good Belichick is. 

It's been a bad couple of years.  But, let's not forget he was the DC for all the Giant's Parcells superbowls and had finally gotten the hapless Browns to be good before Art Modell pulled the rug out.  He has a long history of winning before Brady.  

[Kalbear]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

To be fair Tampa had the unusual luck of having their entire team be healthy during their playoff run while everyone else was beat up.

That might be, but it's still not a great sign when your star QB goes elsewhere and succeeds without you and you fail. Same is true for Manning going to Denver and having success there - it ain't like Tony Dungy did well without him. 

32 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's been a bad couple of years.  But, let's not forget he was the DC for all the Giant's Parcells superbowls and had finally gotten the hapless Browns to be good before Art Modell pulled the rug out.  He has a long history of winning before Brady.  

I'd feel better about that argument if the Patriots won with a strong defense without Brady, and they didn't. 

I think that he's an excellent coach and one of the most important things in my mind was how he was able to get remarkably good turnarounds from players that had been considered mediocre or good and make them stars again. Some of that is clearly Brady (particularly in the WR corps with the likes of Welker and Edelman and Moss) but it was something that players routinely said about him. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

32 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

That might be, but it's still not a great sign when your star QB goes elsewhere and succeeds without you and you fail. Same is true for Manning going to Denver and having success there - it ain't like Tony Dungy did well without him. 

Sure, and it's why Brady wins the debate in the end, but Mac Jones did Belichick no favors. He sucks and I said he would pre draft. Beware the QB with a noddle arm throwing to wide open guys on a stacked roster. 

[Maithanet]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

That might be, but it's still not a great sign when your star QB goes elsewhere and succeeds without you and you fail. Same is true for Manning going to Denver and having success there - it ain't like Tony Dungy did well without him.

Weird shot at Tony Dungy, he did pretty good without Manning.  He was 54-42 with 4 playoff appearances in six years.  Considering he did that with Trent Dilfer and Shaun King at qb, that's well above average.  Yes of course he was better with a hall of famer at QB, but that's true of every head coach ever.