Craving Peaches Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 From Bruxism - Wikipedia: Quote Bruxism is excessive teeth grinding or jaw clenching. It is an oral parafunctional activity;[1] i.e., it is unrelated to normal function such as eating or talking. Bruxism is a common behavior; reports of prevalence range from 8% to 31% in the general population.[2] Several symptoms are commonly associated with bruxism, including aching jaw muscles, headaches, hypersensitive teeth, tooth wear, and damage to dental restorations (e.g. crowns and fillings).[3] Symptoms may be minimal, without patient awareness of the condition. If nothing is done, after a while many teeth start wearing down until the whole tooth is gone. Stannis grinds his teeth on 11 separate occasions according to A Search of Ice and Fire search for '"ground" and "teeth" (checking if it is Stannis doing it as well obviously). He also clenches his jaw 4 different times, according to a search for '"clench" and "jaw"' on the same website. Remember that is only in POV chapters, there is likely more offscreen. And it is worth noting that he does this with a great deal of effort, which would obviously put extra pressure on his teeth. For example: Quote The shape of his skull could be seen under his skin, and his jaw was clenched so hard Asha feared his teeth might shatter. There are also historical instances of intense jaw-clenching: Quote "...When Robert gave the place to Renly, Stannis clenched his jaw so tight I thought his teeth would shatter." So, how much damage do you think Stannis is doing to his teeth? Alester Florent and Aldarion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Probably a lot, though it should be noted that medieval peoples' teeth were generally far healthier than would be common in modern-day people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 42 minutes ago, Aldarion said: Probably a lot, though it should be noted that medieval peoples' teeth were generally far healthier than would be common in modern-day people. I dunno... on the one hand, there was a lot less sugar in their diet, so tooth decay was generally lower. On the other hand, they didn't clean their teeth so frequently or have access to fluoride, nor was there effective dentistry, so plaque buildup would have been real, and if you got a cavity, God help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: So, how much damage do you think Stannis is doing to his teeth? Tough to say, but probably a lot. Doesn't help that he regularly drinks lemon water. While it’s really healthy for you in several ways, the citrus acid can be damaging to one’s teeth. So he’s not doing his dentist any favours. That’s why I always drink it through a straw. Edited February 1 by James Steller Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, James Steller said: Tough to say, but probably a lot. Doesn't help that he regularly drinks lemon water. While it’s really healthy for you in several ways, the citrus acid can be damaging to one’s teeth. So he’s not doing his dentist any favours. That’s why I always drink it through a straw. Can R'hlorr restore his dental health? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: Can R'hlorr restore his dental health? Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 5 hours ago, Alester Florent said: I dunno... on the one hand, there was a lot less sugar in their diet, so tooth decay was generally lower. On the other hand, they didn't clean their teeth so frequently or have access to fluoride, nor was there effective dentistry, so plaque buildup would have been real, and if you got a cavity, God help you. Fluoride in water doesn't really help. Fluoride paste does help, but even there brushing teeth well is actually far more important than the paste itself. And there are many ways you can brush your teeth without using paste - charcoal is an effective and historically popular example. Not to mention that medieval people actually did have a wide variety of tooth pastes (mostly herbal in nature), and did clean (and brush) their teeth fairly regularly. As for the effective dentistry, Cromagnons had effective dentistry*, so I really don't get where this idea of "medieval people didn't have dentists" came from. *As well as effective skull surgery! There are few skull finds where cavemen had their skulls opened, likely to relieve brain pressure or swelling - and the openings had actually healed on edges, showing that patients had survived the procedure, and for quite some time as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Funnily enough, this article showed up in my feed earlier today. Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 He welcomes the pain and looks forward to grumbling about it or blaming others Aldarion and Craving Peaches 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 15 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: He welcomes the pain and looks forward to grumbling about it or blaming others Least spiteful Stannis moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 So according to the NHS Website (Teeth grinding (bruxism) - NHS (www.nhs.uk) Stannis needs to either reduce his stress (not going to happen) or wear a mouthguard to prevent further damage to his teeth. None of these seem likely so I think Stannis is dentally doomed. Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 On 2/1/2024 at 8:37 PM, Craving Peaches said: Can R'hlorr restore his dental health? No, he needs to go to Molar's Town ... badum tssh! Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 On 2/1/2024 at 2:15 PM, James Steller said: Tough to say, but probably a lot. Doesn't help that he regularly drinks lemon water. While it’s really healthy for you in several ways, the citrus acid can be damaging to one’s teeth. So he’s not doing his dentist any favours. That’s why I always drink it through a straw. I wonder whether the George knows this? He might be trying to help Stannis, but he’s actually ruining his teeth twice over. Of course the eventual face melting by dragonsfire is going to be really bad for his teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club-foot cleft-lips Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 On 3/24/2024 at 11:55 AM, Lost Melnibonean said: I wonder whether the George knows this? He might be trying to help Stannis, but he’s actually ruining his teeth twice over. Of course the eventual face melting by dragonsfire is going to be really bad for his teeth. A ratio of about half of one lemon (or equivalent juice) to roughly 12 to 16 ounces of water is not enough to damage your tooth enamel says the internet so take with that what you will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) On 3/27/2024 at 2:00 AM, Club-foot cleft-lips said: A ratio of about half of one lemon (or equivalent juice) to roughly 12 to 16 ounces of water is not enough to damage your tooth enamel On 2/1/2024 at 7:15 PM, James Steller said: Doesn't help that he regularly drinks lemon water. While it’s really healthy for you in several ways, the citrus acid can be damaging to one’s teeth. So he’s not doing his dentist any favours. That’s why I always drink it through a straw. Kind of common knowledge to everyone that citrus is bad for one's teeth, so why the error? Twice, in fact, as Old Bear Mormont also puts lemon in his beer for 'good teeth'. Hobb had given him a lemon, still cold from the Wall. Jon crushed it in his fist. The juice trickled through his fingers. Mormont drank lemon in his beer every day, and claimed that was why he still had his own teeth. - Jon IX It feels like George has (intentionally?) gotten lemons mixed up with almonds, which actually do have calcium-boosting properties, unlike lemons. Maybe in the universe of ASOIAF their properties have been switched, and we're meant to wonder why? I can think of one reason why this might be pertinent, for the suspicious-minded. The almond tree (unlike the lemon tree) has two very notable bits of symbolism, related to prophecy: 1. From the bible: The almond tree is associated with one of the earliest prophecies of a young Jeremiah. “Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, ‘Jeremiah, what do you see?’ And I said, ‘I see a branch of an almond tree.’ Then the Lord said to me, ‘You have seen well, for I am watching to perform My word.’” (Jeremiah 1:11-12) This prophecy uses a play on words that carries a vital truth for Israel as well as for us. The Hebrew word for almond, shaked, is also translated “to watch”. By seeing the almond branch, God assured Jeremiah that He is watching over His word to bring it to pass, no matter the passage of time. https://www.icej.org/blog/the-lesson-of-the-almond-tree/ Almonds have the meaning of 'watch', in this case being watched over by God. In Dany's chapters the Dothraki are often described as having 'almond eyes', which is another 'watchful' connection. 2. In The Canterville Ghost, by Oscar Wilde In this well-known story (adapted into films) an 'almond tree that doesn't bloom' is mentioned in a prophecy that must be fulfilled to send an English ghost to his eternal rest: The almond tree that blooms at the end of The Canterville Ghost symbolizes unlikely beginnings. Almond trees don’t really grow in England: they’re more adapted to hotter climates in the Mediterranean. So, it’s no real surprise that the Canterville’s almond tree has gone barren for so long. Its blooming, however, is surprising. As stated in the prophesy inscribed on Canterville Chase’s library window, the blooming almond tree signals Sir Simon’s final passing into eternal rest, thereby suddenly ending his three-hundred-year reign as the ghost of Canterville Chase. https://www.litcharts.com/lit/the-canterville-ghost/symbols/the-almond-tree This symbolism is related to unlikely new beginnings and ending a reign of terror. Interestingly, the ghost has haunted the mansion for 300 years, much the same amount of time that has passed since Aegon's Conquest. Also ... almond trees don't grow in England, huh? I wonder if Oscar Wilde's fandom go as crazy over this as we do over lemon trees? So has GRRM made a deliberate switcheroo here, in order to bury the almond tree symbolism and make it harder for us to decipher? Or do lemons in Westeros have fundamentally different properties and that's all there is to it? Make of these loose ramblings what you will. EDIT: D'oh, I forgot that sailors used to drink lemon water to prevent scurvy, thanks @Evolett and Club-foot below. Well, when you're wrong, you're wrong! Edited March 28 by Sandy Clegg added the original quote Club-foot cleft-lips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club-foot cleft-lips Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 7 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said: Hobb had given him a lemon, still cold from the Wall. Jon crushed it in his fist. The juice trickled through his fingers. Mormont drank lemon in his beer every day, and claimed that was why he still had his own teeth. - Jon IX It feels like George has (intentionally?) gotten lemons mixed up with almonds, which actually do have calcium-boosting properties, unlike lemons. Maybe in the universe of ASOIAF their properties have been switched, and we're meant to wonder why? I can think of one reason why this might be pertinent, for the suspicious-minded. The almond tree (unlike the lemon tree) has two very notable bits of symbolism, related to prophecy: Scurvy maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolett Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 13 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said: Kind of common knowledge to everyone that citrus is bad for one's teeth, so why the error? Twice, in fact, as Old Bear Mormont also puts lemon in his beer for 'good teeth'. I don't think it's an error. Scurvy was known to occur because of a lack of fruit, especially citrus fruits in the diet. It was the bane of ship-crews that spent months at sea. The latter stage is characterised by bleeding gums and a loss of the teeth so George has done his homework here. It fits within the time-period. Apples, plums and other fruit may be more or less available up North but Mormont can afford the luxury of having imported lemons in his beer to keep his teeth healthy. Stannis also drinks lemon water. Probably needs it too with all that grinding of teeth . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 9 hours ago, Evolett said: Scurvy was known to occur because of a lack of fruit, especially citrus fruits in the diet. That's true. Forget all the almond tree stuff then I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Because of this thread I notice when I am grinding my teeth while looking over the latest threads. Grinding apparently came over me a couple of years ago and is ruining my teeth fast. One doesn't really notice and you can do it in your sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club-foot cleft-lips Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 3/28/2024 at 5:41 AM, Sandy Clegg said: That's true. Forget all the almond tree stuff then I guess! no that was good stuff either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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